Mini Theme 2116 - Undertale S Open

[Psyche]

saying "this is my first time as mafia" while in other ongoing games is really skeevy for the record

[Psyche]

i wanna walk through the logic to make sure that's what's happened...

[SherlockHolmes]

So, unfortunately, I will be traveling from now until the 2nd of February. My activity will be a little more limited than I'd like and I'll be stuck phone posting, but I will still be a force of nature.

Like, y’all aren’t even reading his posts, so how can I trust you to understand the gamestate? This is only the first and most clear time it’s mentioned. Anyone scumreading nacho without acknowledging this is automatically suspect.

Missing a post =/= not reading someone’s posts

[SherlockHolmes]

saying "this is my first time as mafia" while in other ongoing games is really skeevy for the record

I had this dilemma the first time I played as a newbie but I can’t remember what my solution was

[Psyche]

Subject: Saga Mafia Threats to Hazel PT

Hey mastina! I think that I should keep my current role, if that is okay with you. This is my first time as Mafia, and being assured of death prior to Day 3 relieves some of the pressure for me.

Suji started this game after s/he started this one. I think that dropping the tone in that comment is entirely natural, and wasn’t planned out as a safeguard against that game ending first, which makes me strongly believe they had rolled town in this game before getting their scum PM there.

This is why I said it was angleshooty and I still think it’s kind of ick, but I would like us to move on from suji!scum discussion.

Dated to Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:48 pm

Hey everyone!

Dated to Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:51 pm

Okay, so why aren't we just sparing this slot today? It's problematic but "You must play to win the game" means "You must play to win the game".

HEAL: Sujimichi

[Amrun]

Nacho hasn’t done anything scummy in my eyes. All the “cases” on him seem nebulous and some of them seem opportunistic.

I’m not so overly sure he’s town but I think lynching him because he has a high reputation and has had a V/LA in the middle of the phase making it difficult for him to engage is ridiculous.

He’s a townread but the fisticuffs is about the annoyance of lynching day 1 the best player in the game for shit reasons. I joined to play with him. Idk Undertale and couldn’t care less. I just wanted to play with Nacho.

town for me, but i don't see anything he's done as loserish.
in fact, i was a little paranoid when he first locked us as town.
but he's obviously very experienced so maybe he's just that good that he can instantly tell someone's town based on style of posting alone.
and loser!Nacho coming in to push through a SPARE on town day 1 seems like an odd strategy, dontcha think?
unless he thinks it gives him significant towncred but that doesn't really work without flips for SPAREs.
hell if i know.
welp, i see that you and my old pal Sujimichi have had a lot to talk about while i was gone.
i'll get to that tonight.

I agree and frankly, if he was going to fake a confident townread on someone to spare them and get them out of his hair, I would not have expected it to be you. Especially after arguing against sparing.

A better scum strat for that is to pick someone who is familiar and a threat to pocket/remove threat by sparing.

The problem with this is that it’s making an assumption about scumplay that I disagree with beyond a certain level, which is that one move is meaningfully more likely than another once a certain level of scumplay is reached.

The fact that it is suboptimal is exactly why a scum player of calibre might do that some of the time. I highly doubt that nacho (unless his scumgame is much weaker than his towngame, which idk) sees himself as limited in what options are available to scum!him. So approaching the question of “if he’s scum, would he do this suboptimal thing” is meaningless imo.

I don’t know if I explained that well, but I can try again if necessary

I follow, and I don’t necessarily disagree. I’m not making a town case here. I am just saying that to date, no one’s cases on nacho impress me, and some are downright awful and opportunistic. I won’t fight nacho today. I refuse.

Also, if Farkran slot ends up flipping scum, I would lynch alimdia with impugnity, and vice versa, for alimdia’s redirect to Pine. I keep meaning to say that and forgetting.

[Farkran]

Also i'm wondering how Nacho specifically has now became consensus FoS from Suji and Replica (and sherlock, but he looks independent from the other two), but none of them are questioning the towniness of Hectic (Nacho is the leading train for his spare) or my scumminess (Nacho is the only remaining fight vote on me). Actually, i have to admit Suji did question my scumminess by switching his vote to Nacho. Hmmm.

My town read on Hectic is independent of my read on Nachomama8. Are you asserting that a scum player would not accurately town read a Town player intentionally? You are correct in that I stated that I was re-evaluating you as Mafia and have provided where you fall in my current Fight order.

No, i am asserting that it's weird that people fighting me were mostly the same people sparing hectic. This does not necessarily imply that Hectic is scum, but from my POV i'm very, very skeptical of my wagon being full town, and by extension i find it weird that scum would be happy to spare town!hectic.

Having divergent opinions on what's better between spare and fight might be NAI, but the choice of which players to spare and fight is definitely not. This is one of the main reasons i am skeptical of town!Hectic to begin with - i am always wary of general consensus wagons formed by easy "town blocs" when i know for certain that said town blocs are wrong, and ending this day on a flipless spare is definitely NOT a good idea. As i said, even fighting my slot would be better than that - at least you will have a flip to work with, realize that this town bloc is probably NOT a town bloc, and ultimately realize why i am being so insistent against sparing - especially using this specific wagon composition as a basis.

[Amrun]

Interesting, about Sujimichi. I’m hesitant to give a clear for this reason, but I acknowledge it has weight. At the very least, it’s probably better not to fight there today. Blegh.

HURT: Psyche

Not having a scumread is gross. I don’t know psyche enough to know if he could easily fabricate one as scum for optics.

[Amrun]

@sherlock: so you think hectic and nacho could be scum together?

[Psyche]

??? are you blind?
we have confirmed town right before us, why are you depending on weakly reasoned scumreads instead

[Amrun]

Because sparing is trash and I don’t consider that a full confirmation.

[Psyche]

As far as I'm concerned, we have 4-5 sure spares lined up already. Scum will surely kill a couple of them, but the game is practically in the bag. All we have to do is execute.

[Psyche]

I'm sorry but that's inconceivable. This is close to a confirmation as can imaginably occur without mod/PR intervention. Are you scum?

[Amrun]

Why would this be helpful to do?

And four to FIVE?! Surely one or more of these is wrong. Sparing one that’s wrong is a major deal, and we have no info. No thanks, no. Would rather never spare ever.

[Amrun]

I'm sorry but that's inconceivable. This is close to a confirmation as can imaginably occur without mod/PR intervention. Are you scum?

I don’t even want to spare the friendly neighbor today so .... I don’t really care what you think. It has been discussed in depth why sparing FN today is harmful. Same deal for some skeevy thing like this. I did get my fight vote off of him though.

[Psyche]

Suji
Sherlock
Hectic
Nachomamma
Me

I'd bet the whole game on this entire group being town. And god surely hates someone in the scumteam if the IC isn't among these. I simply do not need any scumreads this game and don't care if you don't like it. Let's just end this and go next.

[Sujimichi]

So, unfortunately, I will be traveling from now until the 2nd of February. My activity will be a little more limited than I'd like and I'll be stuck phone posting, but I will still be a force of nature.

@suji

Thank you. I do not view this as a statement of a leave of absence as Amrun indicated, but it does explain reduced activity which I mentioned beforehand I was already trying not to use in my read of Nachomamma8.

[Sujimichi]

For clarity, I would have made the "this is my first time as Mafia" comment if I had received a Mafia role in this game as I would only be discussing completed games per the site rules. This is not a good reason to town read me in this game.

[Amrun]

So, unfortunately, I will be traveling from now until the 2nd of February. My activity will be a little more limited than I'd like and I'll be stuck phone posting, but I will still be a force of nature.

@suji

Thank you. I do not view this as a statement of a leave of absence as Amrun indicated, but it does explain reduced activity which I mentioned beforehand I was already trying not to use in my read of Nachomamma8.

V/LA is vacation / limited access. He is clearly declaring limited access with an end date. That’s a v/la.

[Sujimichi]

Thank you for the clarity on the definition. It does not change my viewpoint on his contribution since given the specificity of his comment.

[Psyche]

For clarity, I would have made the "this is my first time as Mafia" comment if I had received a Mafia role in this game as I would only be discussing completed games per the site rules. This is not a good reason to town read me in this game.

i don't believe you

[Psyche]

Should I go into detail why I don't believe you? Why I don't believe you'd go out of your way to lie in a PT when you could have conveyed your inexperience some other way?

[Sujimichi]

I cannot make you believe me. I can only state that I do not reference ongoing games as it is a violation of site rules. This is not a productive discussion.

I do not wish to be Spared, and I would rather you give an opinion on whom you wish to Fight.

[Psyche]

The sentence is a reference to ongoing games whether it was false or not. And I've been clear that I'm only for sparing.

[popsofctown]

Please do not publicly accuse players of breaking the rules. If you think a rule has been broken, PM the moderator or a list mod.