Open 773: Masons and Mafia: RVS Awards (GAME OVER)

[popsofctown]

Luca Blight EZ read super logical

[Auro]

Probably because she's been pushed for a whole 7 hours? lol
I don't think there's even been a votecount since pops put the first vote on CSF.

And she wasn't pushed at all at the time of Ald shot.
I was referring to the soft-pushes, not the votes.

I interpreted it as being more likely to be related to activity that was in the earlier part of the window of Hectic's apparent threadvisits. I don't think the gladiate makes sense because the victor of the gladiate seemed unclear to me at that point, and it was also even less proximal to new information about whether woodchuck might be mason

Aaaaand explain the Woodchuck shot in the context of that activity. Remember that the Ald shot was before CSF was under any lynch pressure.
Go on.

[Auro]

But then I sensed an inkling of emotion in your questioning of me about Chemist and I'm trying to figure out what that implies.

Well, there's a mild amount of frustration that you don't see what I'm seeing? Like it does seem to boil down to value calls in most cases.
Apart from that I'm actually having fun this game!
What really gets on my nerves is a bloc of people peddling shit game-losing "logic" and refusing to evaluate things at all. It's at least fun to challenge clever players (even if scum) on different things and see their reactions/rebuttals.

[Klick]

soft-pushes

I mean you've kinda answered your own question

At no point has there been sufficient pressure on CSF to justify a shot.

On that note, it's much more surprising that Chem-scum wouldn't have shot by now.

[Klick]

But then I sensed an inkling of emotion in your questioning of me about Chemist and I'm trying to figure out what that implies.

Well, there's a mild amount of frustration that you don't see what I'm seeing? Like it does seem to boil down to value calls in most cases.
Apart from that I'm actually having fun this game!
What really gets on my nerves is a bloc of people peddling shit game-losing "logic" and refusing to evaluate things at all. It's at least fun to challenge clever players (even if scum) on different things and see their reactions/rebuttals.

I think part of it is that I think I know Chemist decently well in the context of two relative strangers on a Mafia forum. And he reminds me a bit of when I was his age (and oh god that feels weird to say). You're taking an objective, logical approach to his actions while I'm reading a fair amount of emotion in what he's saying.
I haven't ruled out Chem-scum but like what he's done so far could totally come from town.
I'd at least concede that on the whole the Mason claim was anti-town?

Also to be clear, I'm ignoring your questions about CSF/my solve until I hear from ML. I'll come back to them.

[Klick]

I think strictly logical play has limits that make it inferior to a mix of logic and emotion/gut reads/'feelings'. That's probably influenced by me being scatterbrained and losing myself in logical debate really easily. I hated debate class

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I was too busy tonight. Will post tomorrow

[Auro]

I'd assert that it's not completely logical to only read players off logic while logic forms a good basis to sort people from, I don't use it as the only factor. I offered to take the lynch over a slot that tunneled me throughout pre-Lylo on the worst logic possible, because I townread the slot inspite of it based on other things.

In this specific case, I believe that he generally knows what he's doing; that even if he had some degree of emotion at being "in a PoE" I don't buy that he doubles down on a blatantly anti-town strategy because of it. The emotion feels manufactured, especially "being tunneled by TSE".

[Auro]

In WF^

[Auro]

At no point has there been sufficient pressure on CSF to justify a shot.

So you'll agree that Yshtola Rhul's suspicion of CSF based on the timing of the Ald shot holds little weight, since CSF had no pressure then also.

I thought in my mind you had listed Rhul's CSF push on that basis as a good point to support the idea of CSF scum. If not, nevermind. If so, ^

[Hectic]

VoteCount 6.5

RVS Award for

This May Just Save Your Life

goes to...

If you're ever on a boat and there's a leak, just create a hole in the hull to drain the water.

Cat Scratch Fever [2]

- popsofctown, Klick

TrueSoulEnergy [1]

- Chemist1422

Sujimichi [1]

- TrueSoulEnergy

Not Voting [4]

- Miss Lynch, Cat Scratch Fever, Auro, Sujimichi

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Day will end when the timer hits zero:

(expired on 2020-03-10 10:40:24)

[Miss Lane]

Hi. I'm sorry, this week is super busy. I'm only sort of back today (I've still got a lot of stuff to do and a lot happened), but I should be back at closer to full strength tomorrow. I skimmed from 65 - now, reading posts that caught my attention.

I want it known that I wanted Klick as the lynch before I left the other day, and I think I've only grown in strength in that read with a single post's worth of hesitation.

Do you believe it's plausible that scum!Chemist claims Mason while town!Suji is getting pushed by many townslots?

I don't see why not. How would tomorrow be projected to look for a ML/CSF/Chemist scumteam if Suji-town got lynched today? On paper that doesn't look great for them.
Alternatively, I think there's a chance Chemist wasn't engaged enough with the thread at the time he claimed Mason to have a sense of how much pressure was on Suji.

Do you think it's implausible?

Yes. I think that looks like almost certainly winning the game.

Chemist, TSE is probably town, and if he isn't he almost certainly isn't getting lynched anytime soon

Talk to me about Auro-town. I think Suji/CSF/ML is probably a fairly good solve but I can't settle on an Auro read, and a mislynch greatly favors Auro-scum.

I think this is another list of lynchbait and people scum reading you.

a mislynch greatly favors Auro-scum

This is an empty statement, a mislynch favors anyone-scum.

Ah, but I said 'greatly', and I already (and recently) explained why that is the case.

VOTE: Cat Scratch Fever

@Miss Lynch:

Join me here, or chat it through with me. I think a CSF lynch has the highest chance of hitting scum at this point.

The CSF votes are garbage. Terrible timing, terrible push, and contextually just all around bad.
I will individually look at CSF again later, and they definitely owe us some effort, but trying to throw the least active player as the highest equity lynch at this point in the game is at best lazy and at worst really scummy.

[Klick]

Chemist, TSE is probably town, and if he isn't he almost certainly isn't getting lynched anytime soon

Talk to me about Auro-town. I think Suji/CSF/ML is probably a fairly good solve but I can't settle on an Auro read, and a mislynch greatly favors Auro-scum.

I think this is another list of lynchbait and people scum reading you.

I think this is a really convenient excuse to discredit my solve.
Townread on TSE + townread on pops = there are exactly zero players that I could scumread without you saying this.

[Klick]

At no point has there been sufficient pressure on CSF to justify a shot.

So you'll agree that Yshtola Rhul's suspicion of CSF based on the timing of the Ald shot holds little weight, since CSF had no pressure then also.

I thought in my mind you had listed Rhul's CSF push on that basis as a good point to support the idea of CSF scum. If not, nevermind. If so, ^

I agree with this - I think it's unlikely CSF shot Yshtola even if she is scum

[Klick]

ML, outside of it being 'lazy' can you actually substantiate why the CSF push is bad?

[Miss Lane]

Chemist, TSE is probably town, and if he isn't he almost certainly isn't getting lynched anytime soon

Talk to me about Auro-town. I think Suji/CSF/ML is probably a fairly good solve but I can't settle on an Auro read, and a mislynch greatly favors Auro-scum.

I think this is another list of lynchbait and people scum reading you.

I think this is a really convenient excuse to discredit my solve.
Townread on TSE + townread on pops = there are exactly zero players that I could scumread without you saying this.

Auro. It does hurt that you townread pops, but I guess that's a fair point.

[Klick]

Auro scumreads me

[Miss Lane]

@TSE and Auro:

Convince me on CSF? They've given very little content that I've cared about so far. Is it all related to daykill stuff?
I'm willing to accept TSE town. I'm going to have to sit and think for a bit tonight about Auro. If Auro is Town I have a lot of trouble seeing Enter as town.

What major game did we play together?

I agree TSE is town, but blocking with him means we have to reach an agreement, which means we have to be able to communicate and I don't think that's happened successfully once this game?

CSF is likely town because of Cheeky and Chemist jumping on their wagon so quickly. This is based off the assumption that Chemist is scum, however.

[Miss Lane]

Let's play pretend: you can shoot someone right now, but it has to be someone from a list that I give you. Which people are you willing to shoot right now with no further investigation?

[popsofctown]

VoteCount 3.0

RVS Award for

Very Very Dead

goes to...

Yshtola Rhul,

Town Mason

, who was killed Day 2.

It is now Day 3. Votes are reset. Deadline remains the same.

Not Voting [11]

- CheekyTeeky, TrueSoulEnergy, woodchuck321, popsofctown, Miss Lynch, Cat Scratch Fever, Klick, Auro, Egix96, Sujimichi, Chemist1422

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Day will end when the timer hits zero:

(expired on 2020-03-04 17:42:53)

VOTE: Cat Scratch Fever

Jfc I'm away for a day and my two buddies die

VOTE: Cat scratch fever

Ok I think Auro, Egix, Chemist, TSE and maybe pops are town.

VOTE: Cat scratch fever

I still think Yshtola's theory is probably wrong, but I think this second kill was quite possibly motivated by the win/win of killing Y'shtola or generating a scumflip that distracted the conversation off of CSF.

That interpretation would still give her a remaining kill, and looking at CSF's posting patterns, she is likely to return in 3-4 hours. If we can flashwagon her very, very quickly here, we could lynch her before she can desperation shoot. As soon as she's aware of this level of pressure she's likely to keep more of an eye on the thread.

This is the sequence of posts right after the Yshtola vig
I could easily see CheekyTeeky submitting a woodchuck kill because momentum seems to be building towards CSF. When things cooled down later on, I don't think she'd be allowed to rescind it, or really knowing Cheeky I wouldn't see her being eager to exercise that kind of right. She wasn't even active during the later activity you keep focusing on, she was active during this chunk of time.
Submitting a kill at this time makes the entire town need to re-evaluate on a partner she thinks is in such bad standing she needs to bus.
Can't you at least see this point?

[Klick]

Are you asking me to respond to 1111? I'm not sure what you're asking in the first post

What's the list?

[Miss Lane]

in easier words
who are you willing to shoot right now?

who are you willing to be the kill for today?

[Miss Lane]

who do you wanna lynch today, and who are you willing to lynch today?

[Klick]

If I could shoot anyone right now it'd be CSF, with you coming in close behind.
Realistically I'd probably be willing to see Chemist flip today - I'm less sure about him as a scumread but I feel like him flipping town would still reveal a lot about the gamestate (I think I could confidently push a vote on CSF or you and get all the town on board in that scenario)
And I'd probably also be fine with Auro dying today.

[Miss Lane]

Why me?

Case me, please.

Also if u are feeling feisty pls case CSF/ Auro