Newbie 1988 | Octopus | Over

[Homura]

non why did you hammer your townread before deadline while i was still catching up?

Does town!Non lolhammer like that?

[Homura]

My curious thing is why the votes switched to Karnage and not LL if the bulk of the votes were because of Phoenix v LL bogging up the thread?

Happy birthday!

Can't parse your question. Karnage was the leading scumread, Luciano the leading townread. The Luciano-Ph0enix interaction factored little into my intent on Karnage. Why do you think Luciano should have been the wagon?

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.01

---

Lynching

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

Everybody

(0): Nobody

Not Voting

(7): ceejayvinoya, Crush, Homura, LuckyLuciano, Non lmh, Titus, Wooper

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-03-20 12:15:00).

Mod notes:

ceejayvinoya is the new TrueSoulEnergy[/area]

[Wooper]

non why did you hammer your townread before deadline while i was still catching up?

Does town!Non lolhammer like that?

This is part of my dilemma tbh. I could see non lolhammering as either alignment and he has a meta of kinda just whimsically lolhammering or doing sweet fa

I think his pred was scummy. The lolhammer comes from non as either alignment but given he had an actual read trajectory i'm pretty sure town!non can give us a convincing update of what his actual thoughts are.

Sorry if you were looking for a more decisive answer, ive played exactly one game with non and frankly getting his alignment right required mighty strong forceps

[Wooper]

My curious thing is why the votes switched to Karnage and not LL if the bulk of the votes were because of Phoenix v LL bogging up the thread?

Happy birthday!

Can't parse your question. Karnage was the leading scumread, Luciano the leading townread. The Luciano-Ph0enix interaction factored little into my intent on Karnage. Why do you think Luciano should have been the wagon?

^^^ This is like my exact read & Titus' question threw me off for exactly the same reason.

Homura-chan...if walpurgisnacht comes and kills all the other towneis... let's go back to day one together to save madoka and save the world...

[Wooper]

before i make your skin crawl too much

you're one of the other people i really want to have sorted before eod2. i think i can read you. and i think this game gets a lot easier if i can weight my townreads comfortably.

[Homura]

Homura-chan...if walpurgisnacht comes and kills all the other towneis... let's go back to day one together to save madoka and save the world...

You're breaking my heart.

P-edit: Fair. I'm kind of in a weird place WRT sorting everyone myself.

[Homura]

What do you think of TSE's sheep on the Ph0enix wagon yesterday?

[Wooper]

i kinda wanted to talk to titus about this but i have a bit of free time rn and i am not a patient boi
this piece of vca is really really interesting and i'm pasting it recoloured here so i can come back to it

bluntly going by EoD i'm really concerned that i was just incorrect on Titus' early phase. the way the ph0enix wagon (sans homura) + titus + ph0enix himself consoldiated onto karnage in about 17 seconds flat suggests fairly strongly to me that there is scum in this push.

i thought homura unvoting => actually asking for reads about karnage => offering to compromise hammer => not actually lolhammering on karange showed a mindset of legitimately solving karnage's mindset which now that i'm reviewing it in isolation is making me think she's instinctively resisting the agenda and most likely just town

tl;dr i'm pretty heavily reevaluating in {tse-slot,titus,ll} today
that being said i'm still uncomfortable with non
so like
gth i'd say there's roughly one scum in these three

Ph0enix

(3): LuckyLuciano, Homura, TrueSoulEnergy

CheekyTeeky

(1): Crush

TrueSoulEnergy

(1): CheekyTeeky

Titus

(1):

Karnage

Karnage

(1): Titus, Non lmh

LuckyLuciano

(1):

Ph0enix

Not Voting

(0):

None.

Ph0enix

(3): LuckyLuciano, Homura, TrueSoulEnergy

CheekyTeeky

(2): Crush, Titus

LuckyLuciano

(1):

Ph0enix

Titus

(1):

Karnage

Karnage

(1): Non lmh

TrueSoulEnergy

(1): CheekyTeeky

Not Voting

(0):

None.

Karnage

(4): Non lmh, TrueSoulEnergy, Titus, LuckyLuciano

TrueSoulEnergy

(1): CheekyTeeky

Titus

(1):

Karnage

CheekyTeeky

(1): Crush

LuckyLuciano

(1):

Ph0enix

Not Voting

(1): Homura

Karnage

(4): TrueSoulEnergy, Titus, LuckyLuciano,

Ph0enix

Titus

(2):

Karnage

, Non lmh

CheekyTeeky

(1): Crush

TrueSoulEnergy

(1): CheekyTeeky

Not Voting

(1): Homura

Karnage

(4): TrueSoulEnergy, Titus, LuckyLuciano,

Ph0enix

Titus

(2):

Karnage

, Non lmh

Wooper

(1): Crush

Non lmh

(1): Wooper

Not Voting

(1): Homura

Karnage

(4): TrueSoulEnergy, Titus, LuckyLuciano,

Ph0enix

Non lmh

(2): Wooper, Crush

Titus

(2):

Karnage

, Non lmh

Not Voting

(1): Homura

Karnage

(5): TrueSoulEnergy, Titus, LuckyLuciano,

Ph0enix

, Non lmh

<-- LYNCH

Non lmh

(2): Wooper, Crush

Titus

(1):

Karnage

Not Voting

(1): Homura

[Wooper]

What do you think of TSE's sheep on the Ph0enix wagon yesterday?

i can't like quite remember it off the top of my head but it didn't strike me as super AI
i'll go reraed

[Wooper]

Ok.
Now normally I’d Go Karnage but LL and Phoenix both share the same Playstyle.
(Main reason for my Phoenix read)

I’ve decided that I’d rather not both of them be here for Day 2.
It could cause unnecessary chaos regardless if TvT.
Take one of my newbies games for example.
Despite me being scum that was lynched Day 1. If I was Town and Luca and Koba were still town the game wouldn’t be favouring town.
Koba and Luca have similar play style.
So when they engaged and started to both scum read each other it created a bad environment that favours mafia.

Thus I don’t want a repeat of this as I got Town this game.

VOTE: Phe0nix

I’d like a Day 2 Karnage lynch though.

this one?
i think like i keep coming out anxious but net kinda liking tse

i've been fooled by scum!tse before (with the caveat that we were in autowin so i kinda stopped reading his alignment half way thru the game) and know that he's fairly good at like mostly associatives, but also very good at just vomiting meta and theory based reasoning @ the thread

i think this vote is pretty firmly within his scumrange but like, reading the content sincerely it's a kinda surface level towny vote
but ph0enix is now flipped town
and karnage is now flipped town
so he's tossing over a t/t dichotomy which he recognises is likely a t/t dichotomy and decides he wants to systematically murder both of them

it's kinda nagl (not a good look) but then againnnnnn TSE does a lot of things which aren't a good look as both alignments and has an intentionally polarising playstyle
so i'm not really sure i can divine his alignment off this vote
if i had to? i'd hail mary and say town

[Wooper]

hbu?

[Wooper]

this anxiety is kinda reminding me of a decision i made a while ago
half #teachingmoment, half life experience

but like, except when you're dealing with a scumsided playerlist (lots of chaotic people, lots of hard to read people, lots of people who are good at playing scum)
i realised that if you can read an action as coming from a town pov, it's probably coming from a town pov. adjust probability levels. you find the scums.

allowing that TSE has a fairly broad scumrange and **could** do that kind of thing + stepping off his titus tunnel etc. as scum, i think he's more /likely/ to do that kind of thing as town
there are a fair few slots in this game who i think have reasonable scum equity

i like tse for town

[Wooper]

also he's been replaced
by the delicious ceejayvinoya
who i am very good at reading
<:

[ceejayvinoya]

[Homura]

Kind of on the fence about it. On one hand, I generally trust my gut for players like TSE, but feel now that I may have gotten the wrong impression of him.

Like, I see what you mean about his town and scumrange being broad, but looking at the timing of his vote on Ph0enix it felt a lot more beneficial for scum!TSE? Both Luciano and I were pushing Ph0enix and his reasoning for his sheep vote amounted to wanting Ph0enix as a policy lynch. 403 felt like he was townspewing Ph0enix despite his subsequent vote on him. Find it hard to see that vote coming from a town-motivated perspective.

[ceejayvinoya]

Tse was very much against the environment that LL vs Phoenix is bringing into the game. He believes it favors mafia, especially if both sides are town. I'm not a big fan of it myself, but I see that it makes sense, reading through LL vs Phoenix was a chore to me.

[Wooper]

Kind of on the fence about it. On one hand, I generally trust my gut for players like TSE, but feel now that I may have gotten the wrong impression of him.

Like, I see what you mean about his town and scumrange being broad, but looking at the timing of his vote on Ph0enix it felt a lot more beneficial for scum!TSE? Both Luciano and I were pushing Ph0enix and his reasoning for his sheep vote amounted to wanting Ph0enix as a policy lynch. 403 felt like he was townspewing Ph0enix despite his subsequent vote on him. Find it hard to see that vote coming from a town-motivated perspective.

This is actually a really big reservation I have about it as well. Bluntly like I agree that scum!TSE would look at that TvT and be like "yas I can exploit this". I do think he has the ability, as scum, to play this off as something measured and intentional. But when you look at tendencies of opposing alignments, ~generally~:

- scum do things engineered to look 'good'. more artificial, 'clean' things have a tendency to come from scum.
- town do things based on how they feel, and what their brain is actually presenting as a solve. there's always a temptation to push people for like "bad" play, or stuff that looks bad in hindsight, but paradoxically sloppy-and-inperfect-but-sincere things are more likely to come from town.

like going at ph0enix over karnage was more confusing and *felt* more opportunistic
the fact he voted ph0enix despite calling him/karnage effective t/t in the same post *felt* ridiculous.

I'm just kinda wondering if this is actually too outlandish to legitimately come from scum!TSE.
like if he's scum, as a self-aware player, what's his motivation in making it?
what it accomplishes is making him look worse if it's outed that ph0enix/karnage are actually t/t. or he's trying to mindscrew us so that some crazy townie like me looks back at it and thinks that it's too bizarre to come from scum. which is possible but like somewhat vaguely less likely

i hope this makes some semblance of sense. i'm anxious about this read because at a meta level, TSE is someone who

does

do weird stuff as either alignment. but i also only care about meta as far as it defines people's scum vs. town ranges - i wish i felt confident enough to call him like locktown but i'm not 100% sure. but the more i strip it back, i'm kinda thinking that level of sloppiness is likely town-indicative as well.

can definitely understand where you're coming from btw; i don't dislike your read at all. i think i'm just trying to go a level ~deeper~ and work out if he's scum, what his motivation was when he made the post

[Wooper]

maybe trying to analyse intent from someone like TSE is madness
who knows
ehfughehkshbdhmbzxmxzvzb

[Wooper]

in an ideal world we'd have a cop/clearing TPR on someone like {tse, non} - slight preference for non because ://
unfortunately we either have a tracker, a FN or nothing so
:shrug:

i guess a tracker can get guilties which is cool - if they track anyone who goes to anyone they're auto-scum bc the tracker would be the only TPR left alive
so anyone visiting someone else is either a goon or the rolecop

[Wooper]

roleblocker*
same difference

[Wooper]

ok i ended up rambling i'm tired
the key take-away: if we have a tracker, we need to lynch scum to get reliable action results.
if we have a FN, then like if anyone got a "____ is town!" pm from the mod, they should act as though they townread that person, but not really explain it in much detail.

but i'd prefer to swing into reads because we lost our most powerful town power role n1
readlist to follow tomorrow - i'm waiting on a couple of things first.

[Titus]

I'm out today. Birthday stuff. Please consolidate. X post all games.

[Wooper]

VOTE: Titus

[AaronFrost]

Non lmh¹ and LuckyLuciano² have been prodded and have (expired on 2020-03-15 20:50:00) to post before Plot and I look for replacements.