Newbie 1988 | Octopus | Over

[Menalque]

Mena, under the hypothetical that Luciano is town, do you think I or Titus would be the most likely partner for scum!Wooper?

you not being who I thought you were changes the equation slightly, but idk if it makes you townier or scummier

I'll try to stop judging you as much based on meta

as for the question, I'm not sure. I find it weird that wooper + Titus are now townreading each other sorta? but LL is much more plausible scum still so I'm not entertaining that possibility unless my lynch becomes inevitable and I have to try to give more nuanced reads to potentially help you guys tomorrow

[Menalque]

oh, I'm also now going to be ignoring LL until further notice because he's either aggressively bad or scum, but either way his continued attempts to engage me in bad faith are helpful to no-one other than scum

[Menalque]

willing to talk about LL with others tho

[LuckyLuciano]

I'm a bit confused as to why you asked me what my reaction would have been when linking a post where I said what my reaction would have been?

[Homura]

Would you have honestly townread Menalque if he answered the way you wanted?

[Menalque]

I'm still not understanding why you're stuck on this point, Titus. Karnage was the compromise lynch because he was the secondmost scumread. You actually led the wagon on Karnage, but now you're hung up on why everyone else agreed with you. If you wanted Cheeky or Luciano as the compromise deadline lynch over Karnage, why didn't you vote one of them intead?

Because this is making me feel you knew Karnage would flip green and wanted to cast shade on both of your scumreads for not being wagoned.

Am I misunderstanding your intentions here?

wasn't Titus still townreading LL at end of day 1? I need to check that again

do you think there's something problematic about Titus being hung up on people agreeing with her? I think that's a fairly reasonable thing to be worried about, especially if you're town and you're leading and you think it's likely scum are following you

why do you think Titus voted my slot today and not cheeky?

[LuckyLuciano]

It's wrong to imply that I "wanted" any particular answer. If he answered in the way that I feel is town, then I would feel he is more town than I do now.

[Menalque]

VOTE: LL

[Homura]

wasn't Titus still townreading LL at end of day 1? I need to check that again

Point taken — she didn't scumread Luciano at the time. I'm still not sure why she's scumreading him today, besides his aggressiveness.

do you think there's something problematic about Titus being hung up on people agreeing with her? I think that's a fairly reasonable thing to be worried about, especially if you're town and you're leading and you think it's likely scum are following you

Because the context surrounding the wagon was that Luciano was a top general townread and that Titus had considered the interaction TvT. The fact that she's asking everyone why Luciano wasn't wagoned in place of Ph0enix is disingenuous in light of that. Why would everyone divert onto Luciano when Karnage has been the consensus scumread?

why do you think Titus voted my slot today and not cheeky?

I honestly have no clue, which has been the same stance I've taken for Titus's entire play this game. Why do you think she voted your slot?

[Homura]

Mena, under the hypothetical that Luciano is town, do you think I or Titus would be the most likely partner for scum!Wooper?

you not being who I thought you were changes the equation slightly, but idk if it makes you townier or scummier

I'll try to stop judging you as much based on meta

as for the question, I'm not sure. I find it weird that wooper + Titus are now townreading each other sorta? but LL is much more plausible scum still so I'm not entertaining that possibility unless my lynch becomes inevitable and I have to try to give more nuanced reads to potentially help you guys tomorrow

It might not be half a year — I don't quite recall. Who else do you know who's bad with votecounts?

[Homura]

I swear ceejay was on a second ago.

[Homura]

It's wrong to imply that I "wanted" any particular answer. If he answered in the way that I feel is town, then I would feel he is more town than I do now.

Alright. I'll do you one in return.

Who do you think is scum if Menalque is town?

[LuckyLuciano]

It's wrong to imply that I "wanted" any particular answer. If he answered in the way that I feel is town, then I would feel he is more town than I do now.

Alright. I'll do you one in return.

Who do you think is scum if Menalque is town?

I've thought about it a bit. If Menalque is town, that's our last ML. The town!Cheeky read goes away (the one I made based off of Tapi's last post), so at that point I think we solve between Titus and Wooper. I don't think both are scum, so our best bet at that point is to correctly determine which is, then after a Menal mislynch + correct scum lynch we're down to 2:1 LYLO, at which case analysis will look far different than it does now. NKs play a big factor at that point.

[LuckyLuciano]

It's important to note that with every lynch and every NK the number of players alive decreases. That means we have more alignment-locks through dead players, and we can look back at past interactions as 100% tvt, tvs, or svs, because we know they are. That limits the amount of interactions we have to look at to solve the game. Menalque has demonstrated in 1036 that he engages in long-term thinking while playing. That's why

I

know that

he

knows to take into consideration the fact that the landscape of the game will be different next dp than this one. That's why I believe his answer to my question was disingenuous. If he never thinks long-term, then maybe as town he really is focused on this DP and survival. However,

he has actively shown that he is indeed thinking about how the game will play out in the following DPs

, so survival is not the only component of his decision-making. Why is he implicitly thinking long-term when attacking me, but default to a survivalist mentality when I ask him to conceptualize the long-term from a town perspective?

[Wooper]

@ work atm and suddenly posts which is VERY exciting but i can't read til later
tty all later

[Titus]

wooper + Titus are now townreading each other sorta

Catching up, but this is not true

[Titus]

seriously, how tf does anyone look at my ISO and say "you aren't trying to scumhunt" when the point you're making is that I said that homura or Titus could be possible scum in a hypothetical where you

specifically asked me to exclude you being scum

how is that good faith, like what

That's exactly why I asked you what I did.

I wanted to see how committed you were to your reads. I know you SR me. I know you SR wooper. I wanted to know how many people you would advocate lynching just to get off the chopping block.

Yuck

[Crush]

@Menal, problem is I don't see Wooper + Titus and chance on homura + wooper I think is also on the lower side. Big problem for me this game is that I have no meta to go off on, so I'm kind of evaluating all of you on face value and votes, especially the last part is just looking too good for Wooper, unless LL is really red.

Now Homura finally started to give off some towny vibes to me, so I do like that.

[Crush]

LL is making points that feel very valid to me, the only red thing about LL is that he feels too sure about his reads and I don't think I can lynch him, just on that.

[Crush]

@homura @cjv @wooper , how likely do you think titus + LL is?

[Wooper]

titus/ll is one of the least probable scumteams

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 2.11

---

Lynching

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

Menalque

(2): Wooper, LuckyLuciano

Wooper

(1): Titus

LuckyLuciano

(1): Menalque

Not Voting

(3): Crush, Homura, ceejayvinoya

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-03-22 19:00:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

[Crush]

VOTE: Menalque

This is L-1

[Crush]

I think if Menalque v LL is TvT we won't win this game btw, but we'll see.

[Menalque]

wasn't Titus still townreading LL at end of day 1? I need to check that again

Point taken — she didn't scumread Luciano at the time. I'm still not sure why she's scumreading him today, besides his aggressiveness.

do you think there's something problematic about Titus being hung up on people agreeing with her? I think that's a fairly reasonable thing to be worried about, especially if you're town and you're leading and you think it's likely scum are following you

Because the context surrounding the wagon was that Luciano was a top general townread and that Titus had considered the interaction TvT. The fact that she's asking everyone why Luciano wasn't wagoned in place of Ph0enix is disingenuous in light of that. Why would everyone divert onto Luciano when Karnage has been the consensus scumread?

why do you think Titus voted my slot today and not cheeky?

I honestly have no clue, which has been the same stance I've taken for Titus's entire play this game. Why do you think she voted your slot?

I still don't understand what it is in LL that you're reading as being particularly townie, so can you please go through this for me again. As mentioned, when being pushed, it makes it a lot harder for me to tell if the push is bad but in good faith or in bad faith and from scum trying to lynch me. LL has definitely got some moments of acting in bad faith which is making me hard lean it being the latter, but if you think this is him genuinely believing I'm scum can you show me where you're getting that from

I think those are very reasonable points around Titus and I'd need to reread to double check. Titus, did you answer why people would divert onto LL when Karnage was the general scumread?

I'm not sure, but I think potentially it has to do with the PR softing that's been going on between the two of them, but now I don't get why they're not being more adversarial when they're both softing PR and only one could possibly have one