Newbie 1992 | Game Over

[team rocket queen]

please tell me what about my play in micro 892 makes you think that
or that i was "bragging" after that game? what??

i was arguing that it was a combination of

friend, not seeing it, and come back to this once the sun is up

, as well as the formatting of the post, and the past history of doing this, and that there was potentially more to it that i hadn't found yet.

is
is this real
am i reading right
how is any of that
a crumb for anything

at the end of that game you said "did you see my great "fake" claim RC?", for instance, bragging about claiming your actual role as mafia, and getting away with it.

friend was a callback to my first post and holds some potential mason weight, breadcrumbs are something you aren't supposed to see until your attention is drawn to them, and come back to this once the sun is up could mean at a later point in the game.

why is felt in past tense

do you no longer believe in that theory

i am less sure about it now then i was before i posted it and i was less sure about it when i posted it then i was the night before, when i noticed it and began searching your posts for more evidence.

[Menalque]

ok so
do you see my point
from my pov (me/you/skitt all town)

why i worry that scum would be positioning themself with stuff like "datisi hasn't done anythign scummy *yet*", "didn't datisi say they're sick"
so upon my green flip they look better

mena this was @you

I just need a break from this game for a minute I think so I can try to come back at least somewhat objectively

[Menalque]

can I just say dats that if you have faked this then I think I might need a break from playing games with you for a while

[clidd]

Jesus Christ, this game is noisy. I will answer a few things:

[Menalque]

I need a break from this game for now for a while

[Datisi]

friend was a callback to my first post and holds some potential mason weight, breadcrumbs are something you aren't supposed to see until your attention is drawn to them, and come back to this once the sun is up could mean at a later point in the game.

it doesn't
it really REALLY doesn't
like you claim you read that post i made where i talk about my crumbs
did you see how i crumbed mason
like calling another person "friend" is worth jackshit as a mason crumb
and if i tried to claim that i would be instalynched

[clidd]

{generalwu, madiusha}
{cliidd}
{mena} (kinda paranoid)
{unhealthy kids} (null)
{trq, marashu}
{datisi}

Looks good, but I would suggest keeping an eye on GeneralWu too, just in case.

Thank you, I guess. I hope you are not trying to pocket me with this town indicative analysis. You were one of the only ones trusting me on that last game, too, so I'm not sure if I'm being too paranoid. I want to put you on my town leans too, but I'm a bit scared of scum!you playing with my mind. I'll have to wait and see how you move later on.

I understand your concern, but I count on your collaboration.

@clidd how much experience do you have with dats?

Let's say that I have a strong and recent experience with him. I'll go into details as soon as I finish a game in progress.

y'know one of these days clidd is gonna roll scum and absolutely fucking steamroll me

I appreciate the concern, but you're overestimating me.

[clidd]

Posts 304, 306, 312, 317 ~ Datisi.

Spoiler:

it is not a joke

i'm currently toying w the idea of all scum being in clidd/gw/madu

i was hoping mena would actually try to talk to me there

I believe that a noticeable hole in your theory is the fact of having an absent player.

You didn't consider the scum!Afk scenario, which would explain the lack of significant push in your lynch. Why ?

ok so
1) melaque is town.
2) menalque said he thinks you're town so you're town too

fmpov the last votecount then looks very ~weird~ because wtf are the scum doing

and if this game was ~easy~ then all scum would be in trq/marashu/empty-slot

but this kinda weird gamestate of mostly everyone tring or nullreading (i'm ignoring the sring you and mena have on me bc it makes sense) makes me think that scum is in the more tred half

and both gw and madu are doing sorta "didn't datisi say he's sick?" "i won't use meta, i'll wait until datisi does sth sus" thing
which kinda strikes me as tmi-y, positioning for my green flip

clidd is still a mystery but he also fits the bill of ~more tred players~

Hum, that point from GW and Madu makes sense.

i wasn't counting on you working with me. i'm not counting on surviving till the end of the day. i have a fear that this game is headed into lynches of Datisi -> trq/marashu/other-slot and that that is a very losing PoE

pedit: skit idk what to tell you
mena is town and i'm sheeping his read on you
idk how that would be ~easy~, or how any of these reads are ~easy~ bc trust me i'm aware i'm just digging my own grave deeper

Why did you use the term

''losing PoE''

?

I thought you thought that mara had good odds of being scum?

independetly of everything else? yes

but i'm realistic enough to know that just because i think someone is scum doesn't mean they are
plus i'm getting the same gut feeling that just chain lynching the "scummy" slots won't do us any good here
it feels ~wrong~

I am having a hard time fully understanding your reasoning. Roles are randomly distributed, so there may be teams of pairs with weak players argumentatively.

And I believe that no one mentioned a chain of lynch based on who is more scummy.

[clidd]

Post

320

, TRQ.

Spoiler:

General consensus is that Marashu is scummy because he took your meme claim as serious right away. Is your reason the same one, and that's why you didn't mention it? Or is it a different one?

it wasn't simply that they took it seriously, but also the way they asked questions about it. i was the first person in thread to give those reads of marashu:

treating me as confirmed feels like an early attempt to get pressure on me if/when i become unconfirmed.

i think marashu was kinda scummy for the way they were viewing my opening because if it was simply a new player thing why would they have an opinion on d1 claims.

so it is odd to me that two of you then asked me for reasoning, as if i had never given any. at the time i voted for marashu, i was also 90% sure datisi was scum. datisi's second post this game was:

First post not a vote or a gif

Scumfirmed

VOTE: Marashu

i extended the logic that scum are more likely to call themselves scum to apply to partners as well, since the first post this game that was not a vote or a gif was not made by marashu, but was in fact the very first post of the game, also made by datisi:

Boop

from reading his completed games, it becomes apparent that datisi would potentially flex like this.

after the two experienced players that are not datisi said datisi was scummy, i went back to his posts with my finest toothed comb, and found this (seemingly addressed to no one in particular):

yeah i'm not seeing it chief

will get back to this once the sun is up

goodnight friends

which sent my mind racing. not seeing it... hmm... once the sun is up could mean real world tomorrow but could also mean in game tomorrow...

and it followed a very particular pattern, one which i had used earlier in the game:

hello friends!

or should i say,

Hi guys im mason

a pattern not completely uncommon to datisi (see the marashu vote above), but also 12 hours after that post:

hello friend

are you scum

please be honest

hm. friend again. let's see how common it is for him to refer to someone this way. (you have to enter 'friend' into the text box, i don't know how to link the completed search)

https://forum.mafiascum.net/search.php? ... r_id=32624

18 matches in 7269 posts, many of which of which are having to do with masons and others are about a breadcrumbing claims... let's look into that further.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=82195

so he has a pattern of doing this. and it would make sense for him to have done so in this game because a newbie referring to a specific role early is probably that role. however,

i'm not a mason so datisi is probably scum here.

i've downgraded the severity of my scumread slightly since i have not yet been able to find a more complex solve to the potential breadcrumbing, if there is one.

tldr; i'm not a mason so datisi is probably scum here.

I would like you to elucidate more briefly what you tried to type here.

[clidd]

I'm inclined to think that Datisi is town, but I'm not as familiar with him using caps lock.

[Datisi]

can I just say dats that if you have faked this then I think I might need a break from playing games with you for a while

i can guarantee you regardless of my alignment that i was legit upset w the game
i'm worried what this means but i probably shouldn't ask

I need a break from this game for now for a while

same
i will catch yall
WHEN THE SUN IS UP (oooooh is this a tracker crumb?)

pedit: oh wait clidd replied to stuff lemme read that

[clidd]

In particular, I make strategic use of caps lock when I want to do emotional manipulation.

I do not know, however, whether this applies to the particularities of his

Town!Datisi

or

Scum!Datisi

meta.

[Datisi]

I believe that a noticeable hole in your theory is the fact of having an absent player.

You didn't consider the scum!Afk scenario, which would explain the lack of significant push in your lynch. Why ?

I did, sorta. My one theory, "easy game", meant scum is in marashu/trq/empty-slot.
like if only one scum is in gw/madu/clidd the afk slot ~could~ be scum but? eh? i'm kinda gonna worry about it once they're here

Why did you use the term ''losing PoE'' ?

ok so town can only mislynch twice and they have to lynch twice correctly to win right
if the lynching poe is 4 players
and both scum is not in those 4 players
then it is a losing poe
since the town will lose if they lynch those 4

[Datisi]

I thought you thought that mara had good odds of being scum?

independetly of everything else? yes

but i'm realistic enough to know that just because i think someone is scum doesn't mean they are
plus i'm getting the same gut feeling that just chain lynching the "scummy" slots won't do us any good here
it feels ~wrong~

I am having a hard time fully understanding your reasoning. Roles are randomly distributed, so there may be teams of pairs with weak players argumentatively.

And I believe that no one mentioned a chain of lynch based on who is more scummy.

i am not sure what you mean by this? like yes the roles are randomly distributed? i don't see how is that connected with what i've said?

[Datisi]

In particular, I make strategic use of caps lock when I want to do emotional manipulation.

I do not know, however, whether this applies to the particularities of his

Town!Datisi

or

Scum!Datisi

meta.

i think it applies to Town!Datisi meta bc i don't think i've ever done it as scum
but also i don't think i've had the opportunity to do it as scum
so
yeah

[clidd]

I did, sorta. My one theory, "easy game", meant scum is in marashu/trq/empty-slot.
like if only one scum is in gw/madu/clidd the afk slot ~could~ be scum but? eh? i'm kinda gonna worry about it once they're here

ok so town can only mislynch twice and they have to lynch twice correctly to win right
if the lynching poe is 4 players
and both scum is not in those 4 players
then it is a losing poe
since the town will lose if they lynch those 4

I believe that one of your problems is having Menalque and Skitter as

lock-town

in your perspective of PoE resolution. This speculative line would have more weight, for me, if I shared the same view on these two slots (which is not the case).

Another problem is that your theory does not include the existence of a

scum afk

, which has not yet verified the topic. This would make the aforementioned combinations unfeasible, and create a problem: let's say that Madu is

town

and GW is

scum

, but both had similar impressions of you. It would be difficult to correctly classify who is acting in bad faith and who is not. Therefore, it would be more plausible if you used the time available to collect information about the slot that is inactive, before proceeding with the conclusion of your theory.

i am not sure what you mean by this? like yes the roles are randomly distributed? i don't see how is that connected with what i've said?

It's basically the fact that the alignments are distributed at random, that is, poorly players can be selected to be

scum

with other poorly players.

In this scenario,

scummy

players can be scum together with other

scummy

players, even though this appears to be too obvious to be true.

[clidd]

i think it applies to Town!Datisi meta bc i don't think i've ever done it as scum
but also i don't think i've had the opportunity to do it as scum
so
yeah

You

think

?

I suppose if it were used by

scum!Datisi

here, it would brutally lose credibility in future games, correct ?

So, it would be logical to assume that you would remain in the town line using it, to be more successful when rescuing that meta to win townread in other games.

[team rocket queen]

I would like you to elucidate more briefly what you tried to type here.

it feels potentially scum motivated to make believe that there is no chance i'm on to something here (unless i'm misunderstanding what the laughing gif means), but there are too many of you for me not to also reach the conclusion that i may not be making any sense.

i can guarantee you regardless of my alignment that i was legit upset w the game

doesn't seem impossible to me that scum would be very upset if my logic was wrong but my vote still landed on them, either.

I did, sorta. My one theory, "easy game", meant scum is in marashu/trq/empty-slot.

do you disagree with skitters post here:

because if marashu is scum calling attention to his partner's obviously fake mason claim is weird

like i can see him doing that as scum to a townie but it's not an svs interaction imo

or do you think the "easy game" is me/empty slot

or

marashu/empty slot?

So, it would be logical to assume that you would remain in the town line using it, to be more successful when rescuing that meta to win townread in other games.

sacrificing the likelihood of winning any given game to increase your winrate in future games is definitely not okay.

[Datisi]

I did, sorta. My one theory, "easy game", meant scum is in marashu/trq/empty-slot.
like if only one scum is in gw/madu/clidd the afk slot ~could~ be scum but? eh? i'm kinda gonna worry about it once they're here

ok so town can only mislynch twice and they have to lynch twice correctly to win right
if the lynching poe is 4 players
and both scum is not in those 4 players
then it is a losing poe
since the town will lose if they lynch those 4

I believe that one of your problems is having Menalque and Skitter as

lock-town

in your perspective of PoE resolution. This speculative line would have more weight, for me, if I shared the same view on these two slots (which is not the case).

Another problem is that your theory does not include the existence of a

scum afk

, which has not yet verified the topic. This would make the aforementioned combinations unfeasible, and create a problem: let's say that Madu is

town

and GW is

scum

, but both had similar impressions of you. It would be difficult to correctly classify who is acting in bad faith and who is not. Therefore, it would be more plausible if you used the time available to collect information about the slot that is inactive, before proceeding with the conclusion of your theory.

i am not sure what you mean by this? like yes the roles are randomly distributed? i don't see how is that connected with what i've said?

It's basically the fact that the alignments are distributed at random, that is, poorly players can be selected to be

scum

with other poorly players.

In this scenario,

scummy

players can be scum together with other

scummy

players, even though this appears to be too obvious to be true.

do you think there is scum in mena/skitter?

it doesn't wholly include cum!afk yet because it's almost impossible for me to know. I can't collect information about something that is not here.

and yes i am aware that scummy players can be scum but the thing is i never had a game where the scummy players were scum and the game was easy. so i'm not exactly having high hopes of that.

i think it applies to Town!Datisi meta bc i don't think i've ever done it as scum
but also i don't think i've had the opportunity to do it as scum
so
yeah

You

think

?

I suppose if it were used by

scum!Datisi

here, it would brutally lose credibility in future games, correct ?

So, it would be logical to assume that you would remain in the town line using it, to be more successful when rescuing that meta to win townread in other games.

i said i think because (1) i don't exactly remember if i ever used it as scum (i think i didn't)
(2) i'm not sure if i ever had a meltdown quite this size as town before (i may have, but again i don't think it was this bad)

and not quite because that would be a trust tell and that is Very Bad and Shitty and also against the rules

and i'm explicitly saying that i maybe could/would use it as scum
obviously not in this game because i am town in this game
but ya know

[Datisi]

do you disagree with skitters post here:

because if marashu is scum calling attention to his partner's obviously fake mason claim is weird

like i can see him doing that as scum to a townie but it's not an svs interaction imo

or do you think the "easy game" is me/empty slot

or

marashu/empty slot?

maybe? tbh i didn't yet give "non SvS" scenarios thought because i'm generally not looking at associatives pre-flip because i know i'm generally shit at catching associates like that

off the top of my head i don't think that that specific thing is clearing of trq/marashu team, no

and my definition of an "easy game" would be any two scum in {trq/marashu/empty-slot}

[Datisi]

and i am legit out now. cheers.

[skitter30]

i was arguing that it was a combination of friend, not seeing it, and come back to this once the sun is up, as well as the formatting of the post, and the past history of doing this, and that there was potentially more to it that i hadn't found yet.

ok but do you think that this is, like, likely?

[Maduisha]

i think it applies to Town!Datisi meta bc i don't think i've ever done it as scum
but also i don't think i've had the opportunity to do it as scum
so
yeah

You

think

?

I suppose if it were used by

scum!Datisi

here, it would brutally lose credibility in future games, correct ?

So, it would be logical to assume that you would remain in the town line using it, to be more successful when rescuing that meta to win townread in other games.

Clidd, you have to consider two things:

- People are not always thinking of usage of their current position for future games every time they make a play in a game, even if it ends up impacting them later on.
-

If

what you're implying is true, doesn't it also open the possibility that the meltdown was not a weapon to get people to unvote him, and was just, in fact, a real meltdown and that's it?

i can guarantee you regardless of my alignment that i was legit upset w the game

doesn't seem impossible to me that scum would be very upset if my logic was wrong but my vote still landed on them, either.

So, Datisi is playing with two people that know how he plays. Even if he's legit upset, don't you think scum would try to cover that up, especially if those people that know him are aware that he usually doesn't get upset like that when he's playing town?

[skitter30]

ok
i feel ok not exactly townbinning datisi for now
but more like dropping the push

not because of the emotinal stuff which i have a hard time reading
but more because he has a super consistent pov towards teh game, which he is able to answer questions about coherently and cohesively in real time, which i think scum has a hard time faking most times

[Maduisha]

do you disagree with skitters post here

Huh... wait, were you trying to get a town read for yourself from Datisi by confronting him with the opinion of one of his town-locked players? Or are you just trying to get him to unvote you? Trusting a player's capabilities doesn't mean sheeping their opinions completely, just a reminder.

Also, do you still believe the accusation you made on Datisi is reasonable, or has the popular opinion made you disengage from it?