Newbie 1992 | Game Over

[Datisi]

VOTE: generalwu

[Datisi]

oof #1000 pagetop just right

[Karnage]

Vote Count 1.21

Marashu (2) ~

Maduisha, skitter30,

Datisi (2) ~

team rocket queen, GeneralWu,

GeneralWu (2) ~

Menalque, Datisi,

clidd (1) ~

word321,

skitter30 (1) ~

Marashu,

Not voting (1) ~

clidd,

With 9 alive it's 5 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2020-03-27 19:08:54)

V/LA:

• skitter30 - Fridays and Saturdays & mental health vla for a couple of days (beginning 3/23)

[Maduisha]

I'm fine with this as well because I find him scummy, but I still think flipping Marashu would give us more information. My reasoning here:

Spoiler:

Mad, what do u think about possible flips? You said youd rather lynch gw than Mara. but what do u think about the possible results of those lynchs? mara flipping town, mara flipping scum, gw flipping town and gw flipping scum.
I think if mara flips town, that may be indicative that gw may be town too, but i cant rly sriously consider gws game if that was not the case, AT ALL. Im not too sure about what to think from a town flip from gw, since mara has not interacted with the game at all.

If Marashu is scum, I feel like GWu is scum because he's basically only appearing to defend Marashu and himself. And he keeps talking about the scumminess of Marashu that makes him nullread him, but still pushes the town narrative. If Marashu is town, then some of the more active people that tried to push for him from very early on might be looking a bit scummy here instead.

If GWu is scum, I don't really know who else to link with him other than Marashu himself. Maybe Clidd...? But I can't see a clear connection between the two, other than Clidd giving him a town lean early. He had some negative interactions with Datisi and myself, so you could pull from there if he flips town.

I really feel like there's less information for us if we lynch GWu instead of Marashu, so I'd call for a Marashu flip D1 even if I'm scumreading GWu more than him and I'd prefer his lynch. It's just instrumentally better to flip Marashu, I think.

While GWu fluffposts a good deal and disappears, he's more likely to bring us content to work with than Marashu, if you get what I mean.

It mostly is that if GWu flips green, I don't know what to think, because I TR Datisi. But I'm not good at reading associations yet, so I don't know. And it's still true that Marashu ignored Skitter's defense, and the fact that she herself delayed his lynch, but he continues to say she's scum.

[Maduisha]

Well, I don't know. I have suspected him for a while anyway, might as well trust my gut.

VOTE: GeneralWu

[Datisi]

i am also not that Good at associate reading and correct me if i'm wrong, but i feel like you're looking at associates the wrong way, i'd argue considering how little Mara has contributed that, from a purely information-lynch standpoint, Wu is a better flip.

also, why the "It mostly is that if GWu flips green, I don't know what to think, because I TR Datisi." part? what do you mean?

[Maduisha]

That you and I were the ones pushing him the most during the day, but I TR you. So if he flips green, I don't know where to look for scum.

[Maduisha]

i am also not that Good at associate reading and correct me if i'm wrong, but i feel like you're looking at associates the wrong way, i'd argue considering how little Mara has contributed that, from a purely information-lynch standpoint, Wu is a better flip.

also, why the "It mostly is that if GWu flips green, I don't know what to think, because I TR Datisi." part? what do you mean?

I guess you are right. I went to check the people saying Marashu was scummy early in the day, because I thought it'd be narrowing things a bit, but it turns out it's almost everyone.

[Maduisha]

I can see Skitter supporting the GWu train because of this:

also why are people voting marashu again what did he do

This whole thing feels kinda svs with marashu

@TRQ, @Word, @Clidd, what do you think?

There's also Marashu, but he scumreads Skitter and Clidd, so I don't know if I want to ask him.

[Datisi]

That you and I were the ones pushing him the most during the day, but I TR you. So if he flips green, I don't know where to look for scum.

do you think that it's always scum hardpushing a lynch that later flips green? i get this is maybe wifom coming from me rn but

[Maduisha]

That you and I were the ones pushing him the most during the day, but I TR you. So if he flips green, I don't know where to look for scum.

do you think that it's always scum hardpushing a lynch that later flips green? i get this is maybe wifom coming from me rn but

Not necessarily, that's true. For example, on my last game, one of them was basically lurking and jumped on wagons at the last moment, and GWu never participated in any lynch, on top of only accusing me when his partner was in danger. I think I got carried out there by Word's question and making associations, because there's not necessarily scum at the head of a wagon that ends in mislynch.

[Maduisha]

I think I should drop associations entirely during D1, because I'm confusing myself more than anything.

[Menalque]

That you and I were the ones pushing him the most during the day, but I TR you. So if he flips green, I don't know where to look for scum.

do you think that it's always scum hardpushing a lynch that later flips green? i get this is maybe wifom coming from me rn but

Why would this be wifom coming from you?

[Datisi]

because i'm the one hardpushing wu? and me preflip going "ye you know just because someone sometimes flips green you know it wasn't necessarily scum hardpushing them right right??"

tbh maybe the phrase i'm looking for is not "wifom" but rather "sketchy as all shit", but yeah.

[GeneralWu]

the "reading the thread is unnecessary" argument from generalwu makes almost as much sense his "i want a mafia partner who is intentionally losing" argument

No no I'm not saying it's completely unnecessary to read the thread.
What I'm saying is that it can sometimes be impossible to read the thread with the sheer number of posts that have been made. So sometimes it's pointless to even try, because if you do you'll never actually catch up to the current events of the game.

Also a mafia partner who is intentionally losing is good because you could bus and gain towncred. You can also use this opportunity to get your mafia partner to help with power role fishing. Most of the time it's also pretty unnecessary to keep your mafia partner alive because you only need one member of the team alive till the end to win.

[GeneralWu]

Well, I don't know. I have suspected him for a while anyway, might as well trust my gut.

VOTE: GeneralWu

VOTE: generalwu

[GeneralWu]

maduisha your gut is wrong and also you seem scummy

you also seem like a mafia taking advantage of the situation

[GeneralWu]

the "reading the thread is unnecessary" argument from generalwu makes almost as much sense his "i want a mafia partner who is intentionally losing" argument

anyway, i see my last two posts have been ignored so i will try again:

btw skitter is scummy because people have to squeeze information out of her like they're squeezing toothpaste

she doesn't really explain any of her reasons for voting people until after she is asked to do so.

i did something very similar with my vote and my reads. what do you think about the way skitter asked me questions surrounding those?

Because it's good if you have reasons for voting someone.

do you think it is always beneficial to share those reasons as town?

earlier this game, skitter voted for me and you asked why.

VOTE: team rocket queen

why

she replied:

i dislike that they've been going on and on about the merits of meta-reading off of old games without really interacting with what else is going on this game much

which didn't seem like something there would be town benefit in telling me if she thought i was mafia. in a series of posts i communicated that to her, and she said:

i didn't originally ... i was asked to elaborate

do you, generalwu, think there was town benefit to asking skitter why here?

first post it's because skitter joined like 3 years ago so I'd expect her to know better
also it is always beneficial to explain your reasons unless you're doing a reaction test
and it seemed like skitter was trying to sheep people rather than make a reaction test

[GeneralWu]

btw skitter is scummy because people have to squeeze information out of her like they're squeezing toothpaste

she doesn't really explain any of her reasons for voting people until after she is asked to do so.

a) this isn't true
b) so what if it is. why is it scummy that people need to squeeze information out of me like they're squeezing toothpaste?

because it's better to explain yourself well instead of wasting time by waiting till people tell you to explain to explain
unless you're doing a reaction test or something which I really don't see you doing

[GeneralWu]

1 is a bad reason bc I just explained it
2 while he has made some posts that are iioa there are also other posts of his that are analysis
3 is probably associated with his activity. Let's suppose you were on V/LA for a few days, and then the game totally changes when you get back. The last posts you made could become irrelevant to the current situation. (If not completely irrelevant, it might still be pointless for you to follow up on your last posts because the situation has changed so much).
4 well I feel like his opening was not as bad as people think.
Like the main reason people disliked his opening was because of this:

1. inactivity by itself isn't a problem
it's a problem when the posts, when they do exist, are utterly lacking and he has rather little real content
and it's a problem when he keeps promising content ('like after work') and then not following through
2. the vast majority of his posts are iioa. if i have to ask him what the takeaway of his posts are because there aren't any, we have a problem
3. yeah, then i'd expect him to at least say 'so i think my question in post 7 got answered by player x, but i have a followup question in that blah blah blah'. that's what i mean by follow through. it doesn't exist
4. if he believed the mason claim was real he shouldn't have announced that to the entire thread because he called scum's attention to it

sometimes it's hard to know when you have free time
99.999999999% of bosses are idiots who like to randomly change work times or overwork people
so you might think you have free time but you actually end up not getting that free time.

btw I might have explained this already I think

[Datisi]

1019:
Wu: inactivity isn't a problem!!! having 10 posts in a 1000 post game isn't scum indicative
skitter: okay but all of his posts are lacking content and he's not doing analysis and his posts lack cohesion
Wu: inactivity isn't a problem!!!!

[GeneralWu]

wait nope I didn't
I think it's normal for people to post iioa when they're short on time
also I disagree that the vast majority of his posts are iioa; quite a few of them are actual contributions

3 I think it's not really necessary to post stuff like that since I almost never do that

4 true but he's still getting used to playing mafia again. also you don't really know his other experiences with mafia so you can't really judge
for instance, if you play on a website where you get banned for not claiming instantly, you could be used to power role claims day 1

[Maduisha]

maduisha your gut is wrong and also you seem scummy

you also seem like a mafia taking advantage of the situation

I welcome your point of view, because I believe one should account for all possibilities. This is the second time you call me scummy, so please, now elaborate on why I am scummy.

vote for datisi

Nice. Now sustain why he's scummier than Marashu, and why this is a "good push", unlike lynching Marashu, please. Last time I checked, mafia was a team game and you get nowhere if people don't share your views.

Also, please address this too, since you said we should vote Datisi instead of Marashu and just left it at that. You can't have people join your wagon without bringing reasons why the scummy person is scummy, you know?

[Datisi]

Also a mafia partner who is intentionally losing is good because you could bus and gain towncred. You can also use this opportunity to get your mafia partner to help with power role fishing. Most of the time it's also pretty unnecessary to keep your mafia partner alive because you only need one member of the team alive till the end to win.

[Maduisha]

3 I think it's not really necessary to post stuff like that since I almost never do that

"Doing X thing is not necessary because I don't do it."

???

Do you re-read your messages before posting...?