mini 2126: the game is OVRE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Post Post #3625 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:11 am

Post by Eddie Cane »

Elli, myself, and a few video mafia people you won't know have discussed the best way to implement a ranking system for player skill in mafia. Video is a much more conducive format due to the voting style changes, but forum is what you guys play, including Elli. Our general agreements were that tracking votes was more important than tracking win/loss, and the current testing system includes points for what alignment each town player ends the day voting (mafia is purely evaluated on W/L). Elli and I strongly disagreed on one point; I thought getting killed night 1/2 as a VT should count for points in your favor, as you scare scum. Elli says the optimal way to play is to kill scum and survive later, ie appear unthreatening. So that is what I've been experimenting with. It does not matter to me if you lynch me, I'm obviously VT and I will still get my points in the system if I end the day voting scum (questionable with this many bad town). I also don't care about forum rankings because this is not a form of mafia I usually enjoy, but that's besides the point.

I will give another defense of myself because it would be anti-wincon not to.

1) The people here who know me the best in this game, by far, are Dannflor and Boon. Both slots have potential to be scum, sure, but I'm unaligned with at least one of them. Dannflor played TM with me, and saw how I actually played - while his read was OTT, it was correct. Boon has rolled scum with me several times (all wins ;) ) and played many more games. Both have me as town! The other people in the game have never had consistency reading me if they've played with me at all, and if anybody would like to argue otherwise be my guest. There are actually two tells that make this point me town: the people who know me better town read me, and some of the better players town read me.

2) This is the strongest point: I do not kill Firebringer. There is no player in this game that would get to pick the kill over me. There is not one, single scum game I have played on site where I kill a "fun" player like Fire early on. I ALWAYS kill tryhards / people who threaten me. I have not played a game other than team mafia in months, and on not an alt in I think over a year. I would not kill the person who begged me to play, who is also not a threatening player.
This is a fact
, and because most of you are not very good players you can dismiss it as WIFOM. That doesn't matter to me. I'm doing my part and showing why I'm town, and not doing your part for the town wincon is your perogative. NKA matters, people.

3) Let's go through who my partners could be again!!
Luna - is now basically town cleared.
SS - was on my wagon, and had very obviously not partner interactions with me
NSG - predecessor (Dann) gave a very spewy read of me, and she came into the game pushing me rather than sheeping or acknowledging that read, which is not a partner trajectory
Auro - was on my first wagon, left me at l-1 for a while
Comical - is probably the town gunsmith
Dany - see several wall posts in my iso for why we aren't partners, lul. was also part of my first wagon.
Nero - predecessor town read me, he came in instapushing me. again, not a partner trajectory
Oka - lol
Alch - lol
Penguin - sure

So if you want to push I'm scum, and ignore all of my recent content, then the only team that I think is not objectively fucking horrible to push is Eddie + 2 of {Auro, Comical, Penguin}. I think all 3 of those slots are townie! And I don't even think I make a ton of sense with the first two. But this is the only world I do not think it would make you bad to seriously push with me in it. OCCAM'S RAZOR also means this makes me unlikely scum because I have such narrow possibilities, but lol.png.

4) I am being put in solves by literally everybody - Oka has me with Alch, Alch has me with Oka, both of which are actually laughably bad. And HERE'S THE CLINCHER: I haven't even tried to align with Auro or Comical, or spew either of them town. I've actively paranoia'd on both of them both day 1 and day 2, pushed Comical early in the day, pushed Auro early in the day. So these are my supposed partners.

I think its a severe lack of thought that is leading to this gamestate. I
have
, many times, tried to help town win this game. People are sitting in a game with ~7 claims out of ~11 living players and not forcing the scum that is more than likely at least partially in the unclaimed to finish it. Its fucking laughably bad. Do you need it to be explained to you for the 5th time why massclaiming makes sense? We have cc'ing PRs (gunsmiths) (that yes, could technically both be town). And an outed JK that could be town. And Luna and PP, at least one of which is definitely town. The rest of the claims should all be VT, but if we did this 40 pages ago we could consider it properly. It is not "whining", persay, because I really do not care about the outcome of this game. Most of the people I joined to play with are gone. But I do play to my win condition, or try to, even while balancing trying to be unthreatening enough to not nightkill via not stating what my actual scum reads are and general lacrimose presence.
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Post Post #3626 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:12 am

Post by PenguinPower »

Image

for nsg
<(") | (")>
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Post Post #3627 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:13 am

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 3624, Auro wrote:Why do you expect Eddie to lolhammer just because he did so D1?
I do? I'm just saying that I can understand why ppl would see Eddie not hammer him and then go "oh he didn't hammer b/c they r scum together!"
In post 3624, Auro wrote:Do you actually less than nullread Comical?
yes, he' scum.
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #3628 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:13 am

Post by Auro »

Nice pagetop.
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Post Post #3629 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:14 am

Post by Eddie Cane »

In post 3628, Auro wrote:Nice pagetop.
Timed it ;)

By the way, for the record, if I was scum with Auro and Boon I would be having way more fun and the gamestate would not be this bad.
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Post Post #3630 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:14 am

Post by Auro »

In post 3625, Eddie Cane wrote:appear unthreatening.
I'm rarely NK'd, clearly I'm super skilled at mafia ^_^
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Post Post #3631 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:16 am

Post by Nero Cain »

less defense more game solve, Eddie
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #3632 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:17 am

Post by OkaPoka »

eddie just claim right now then
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Post Post #3633 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:19 am

Post by Auro »

Did you read his posr
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Post Post #3634 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:20 am

Post by Eddie Cane »

In post 3633, Auro wrote:Did you read his posr
reading my posts requires caring about my alignment ;)
In post 3631, Nero Cain wrote:less defense more game solve, Eddie
Projecting town is part of gamesolving. :P
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Post Post #3635 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:20 am

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 3625, Eddie Cane wrote:then the only team that I think is not objectively fucking horrible to push is Eddie + 2 of {Auro, Comical,
Penguin
}.
FTR I actually was pushing that...
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #3636 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:20 am

Post by Auro »

I'm VT.
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Post Post #3637 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:21 am

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 3634, Eddie Cane wrote:Projecting town is part of gamesolving.
Why would you need to project as town, aren't you just town?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #3638 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:22 am

Post by Auro »

In post 2923, Comical wrote:FUCK IT AURO EDDIE CANE FLAVOR POWER TOWN BLOCK TEAM FORCE MEGATRON GO!!

Down to clown with the town block
In post 2960, Auro wrote:
In post 2923, Comical wrote:FUCK IT AURO EDDIE CANE FLAVOR POWER TOWN BLOCK TEAM FORCE MEGATRON GO!!

Down to clown with the town block
Hellz yeah :3
I'm just pulling these up for the lulz
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Post Post #3639 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:22 am

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 3633, Auro wrote:Did you read his posr
I did. Why ask this?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #3640 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:22 am

Post by Auro »

In post 3637, Nero Cain wrote:Why would you need to project as town, aren't you just town?
So town doesn't lynch him
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Post Post #3641 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:23 am

Post by Auro »

In post 3639, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 3633, Auro wrote:Did you read his posr
I did. Why ask this?
To Oka who asked him to claim
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Post Post #3642 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:24 am

Post by Nero Cain »

In post 3640, Auro wrote:
In post 3637, Nero Cain wrote:Why would you need to project as town, aren't you just town?
So town doesn't lynch him
Why does town lynch him and not scum?
Of all tyrannies,a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

edited c.s. lewis quote b/c limit
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Post Post #3643 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:25 am

Post by OkaPoka »

ss and alchemist ur up

this site is dying on my end
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Post Post #3644 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:25 am

Post by Eddie Cane »

In post 3642, Nero Cain wrote:
In post 3640, Auro wrote:
In post 3637, Nero Cain wrote:Why would you need to project as town, aren't you just town?
So town doesn't lynch him
Why does town lynch him and not scum?
Please stop posting useless things.
In post 3640, Auro wrote:
In post 3637, Nero Cain wrote:Why would you need to project as town, aren't you just town?
So town doesn't lynch him
This could be a long theory explanation if you actually care, but you'll have to play video to get me to care enough to do that. :)
In post 3600, schadd_ wrote:northsidegal (3): Auro, Comical, iDanyboy
Eddie Cane (3): Nero Cain, OkaPoka, Alchemist21
iDanyboy (2): Something_Smart, northsidegal
Alchemist21 (2): Eddie Cane, Luna Fox
Auro (1): PenguinPower
If you want some interesting stuff to help your OWN gamesolving, though, this is a pretty interesting vote count.

The biggest wagons are myself and NSG. We are not voting each other. We are also pretty clearly not partners. If I town read NSG, this is where I would put that this makes us both town.

The next biggest wagons are Dany and Alch. I am on Alch with my strongest town read, and feel pretty good about that vote. Dany is wagoned by two of the better players in the game, although neither is super duper townie.

This is going to be an important vote count to look at on day 4 with a few more flips.
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Post Post #3645 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:28 am

Post by Auro »

In post 3642, Nero Cain wrote:Why does town lynch him and not scum?
Assume that town can read town projection correctly.
Assume that town randomly lynches amongst slots that haven't projected town. This can include town and scum.

Therefore if you don't project town as town, you have random chance of getting lynched, as opposed to the case where you did project town.

Now you could say he's trying to project it as scum but that's different from the argument that projecting town is part of helping solve
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Post Post #3646 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:29 am

Post by Auro »

In post 3644, Eddie Cane wrote:This could be a long theory explanation if you actually care, but you'll have to play video to get me to care enough to do that.
One day I'll succumb. First I'd like to spectate games that aren't at 3:30am my time :P
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Post Post #3647 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:32 am

Post by Eddie Cane »

In post 3645, Auro wrote:
In post 3642, Nero Cain wrote:Why does town lynch him and not scum?
Assume that town can read town projection correctly.
Assume that town randomly lynches amongst slots that haven't projected town. This can include town and scum.

Therefore if you don't project town as town, you have random chance of getting lynched, as opposed to the case where you did project town.

Now you could say he's trying to project it as scum but that's different from the argument that projecting town is part of helping solve
The shorter answer is that town have to be part of every lynch, that's kinda how the game works. And if you don't act townie, town can't possibly find you as town.
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Post Post #3648 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:33 am

Post by OkaPoka »

lynch idany tyvm bye
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Post Post #3649 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2020 9:34 am

Post by Something_Smart »

In post 3643, OkaPoka wrote:ss and alchemist ur up
Up to what? Claim? Why?
Shame on a martyr claiming friends
From either perspective of &
Locked