Newbie 1992 | Game Over

[Datisi]

skit, did you realize Mala was a Mason before the reveal?

[Karnage]

Vote Count 3.2

Datisi (1) ~

skitter30,

skitter30 (1) ~

Datisi

Not voting (3) ~

clidd, Maduisha, word321,

With 5 alive it's 3 to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2020-04-14 08:00:00)

V/LA:

• skitter30 - Fridays and Saturdays; Thur Apr 9th - Sat Apr 11th.

[skitter30]

skit, did you realize Mala was a Mason before the reveal?

Nope.

[Datisi]

UNVOTE:

[Datisi]

around the end of day 1, when i was deadset on wu being scum, i remember thinking that "if marashu actually is scum, the partner is either skitter or clidd".

however i'm genuinely doubing skitter actually busses like that. i'll reread a bit more thoroughly later to see if i can mentally backtrack to what i was thinking.

[clidd]

In particular, I believe that Scum!Datisi played wrong here. There would be a chance for him to convince me that Skitter was scum, because that was what I theorized as a moderately stronger possibility in post 1635.

Is it me, or does it sound like scum!Datisi would have, in fact, taken advantage of your position in that post to direct you to Skitter instead of being vocal against it? Honestly, the more I look at it, the more I feel they're both town...

That or Datisi is scum but did not plan to frame Skitter, but I also don't see an attempt of his to push anyone but Malakittens. And if according to your theory, Clidd, the SE directed the NK of TRQ because they realized the masonry super early, doesn't it feel dumb that Datisi would push Malakittens if he knew lynching them was impossible? If Datisi is scum and is trying to mislead us, what's his plan?

I believe he wanted to remain too neutral. In a game state where everyone is speculating, interacting with each other, and he is "lost" is an indication of one of the characteristics of BoP, where the player is unable to find out who the scum is or to make inferences that lead to the correct track, because the player himself is the scum. As everyone around him is town, he has a hard time reaching opportunistic push instances, which I also believe is a defect of Scum!Datisi, at least as far as I could reason.

[clidd]

skit, did you realize Mala was a Mason before the reveal?

And asking the antagonistic slot (which should be scum for him) if she noticed if Mala was a mason previously seems illogical. It is the same as asking a serial killer if he killed someone expecting a confession without proof.

[word321]

Karnage, happy cake day!

ok. i see how this day ends. i'll try to give you advice for final 3 but don't expect much because i'm aware how shit my play has been this game and i don't want te be deadsheeped if i'm wrong. more when it's not 2 am and when i gather the energy for this game. cheers.

Your help would be appreciated.

Oh, plus:

If we extend until Saturday and Sunday, I will have time to make a complete analysis of all the players and clarify the smallest details I used to infer the Marashu + Datisi partnership and also explain why other possibilities are not possible in the scenario we are in now. If you guys are patient with me, of course.

Sure, we have time.

no worries. i'm a bit cranky becuase i don't sleep well. no hard feelings on anyone here. <3

That is good to hear. This is a game after all; nobody has bad intentions with the acusations.

[clidd]

I'm not townreading any of that. But I will wait for my analysis before voting.

[clidd]

Oh, congratulations Karnage !

[word321]

Im somewhat aware of that, but I rly dnt have much to say, tbh. I do agree with ur read on skitter datisi situation, and the evidence Ive found from mara is enough to justify his lynch before yours, but my PoE is pretty fixed at this point, and already having heard everyone rn, I dnt think it will change that much. I am awaiting ur analysis, though.

[Karnage]

Karnage, happy cake day!

Oh, congratulations Karnage !

Spoiler:

[Maduisha]

In particular, I believe that Scum!Datisi played wrong here. There would be a chance for him to convince me that Skitter was scum, because that was what I theorized as a moderately stronger possibility in post 1635.

Is it me, or does it sound like scum!Datisi would have, in fact, taken advantage of your position in that post to direct you to Skitter instead of being vocal against it? Honestly, the more I look at it, the more I feel they're both town...

That or Datisi is scum but did not plan to frame Skitter, but I also don't see an attempt of his to push anyone but Malakittens. And if according to your theory, Clidd, the SE directed the NK of TRQ because they realized the masonry super early, doesn't it feel dumb that Datisi would push Malakittens if he knew lynching them was impossible? If Datisi is scum and is trying to mislead us, what's his plan?

I believe he wanted to remain too neutral. In a game state where everyone is speculating, interacting with each other, and he is "lost" is an indication of one of the characteristics of BoP, where the player is unable to find out who the scum is or to make inferences that lead to the correct track, because the player himself is the scum. As everyone around him is town, he has a hard time reaching opportunistic push instances, which I also believe is a defect of Scum!Datisi, at least as far as I could reason.

I'm guessing you're putting BoP on Datisi because he's SE alone, right? I say this because if I try to put myself in the shoes of town!Datisi, the game does seem confusing. Of course this can be read as scum trying to hide themselves in that... wifom everywhere.

skit, did you realize Mala was a Mason before the reveal?

And asking the antagonistic slot (which should be scum for him) if she noticed if Mala was a mason previously seems illogical. It is the same as asking a serial killer if he killed someone expecting a confession without proof.

That is true, it's a bit weird. The only thing I can extract from such interaction is that Datisi trusts Skitter still.

[word321]

I believe 1800 was a direct follow up of 1799, wich I see as honest talk, regardless of alignmet. Both are a consequence, if the hypothesis is right, from 1789, associated with the end of the game (at least as an active player) being near for him. Now, if I were to analyze it, that is more plausible as scum than town, since u can still engage in finding the other scum on his wagon, but, again, that is already bordering overkill.

Tbh, if it wasnt for waiting on clidds analysis (wich is important mainly in a scenario in wich there is a tomorrow for consistency issues, although interesant by itself), I would advocate for an early lynh, since I blv there rly is no more value in analyzing datisi if it is not a game-revealing thing (like a hard contradiction to the current state of the game). In that sense, pls do hurry with that.

[Maduisha]

I mean, I understand your desire to move on with the game, but do remember that Datisi said he wants to reread the thread, and he unvoted Skitter, so in the case he's town, he might be able to see something we do not when he rereads. That plus Clidd's analysis, plus the fact that Skitter is in VLA status until April 11, I think warrants the waiting.

[word321]

Yes, of course; I'm not saying we move it now, by all means. I agree with u on what u say, skitter in VLA and all. But either way it is a lot of waiting. So I was trying to hurry ppl up, and see their reactions while I'm at it. Or anything at all, at least.

[Datisi]

Okay. So. Here's the thing. I'm feeling p low energy for this because I'm aware that 1) i'm most likely eating rope today anyway and 2) that i might very well be wrong and I really don't want the town to follow me off the edge of a cliff tomorrow.

Here's what I've been thinking about. I said yesterday that it seems to me the gamestate is melded in a way for us to lynch Marashu/Skitter/Datisi in any order. And I would've been fine with that if I was sure this was Mara/Skit. But as I said yesterday, I'm not.

There are reasons why I'm suspicious of clidd.

During Day 1, clidd was pretty suspicious of Marashu. In 931 he expressed a mental vote on Marashu but never actually voted him. After Marashu claimed VT, and the tide started slowly shifting to Wu, clidd made 1067, where he expressed Marashu to still be his preferred lynch while still not voting either. At the time, the wagons between Wu and Marashu were tied (3 vote each), he said he preferred Marashu, but didn't vote. Then in 1164 he ended up wanting to lynch Wu instead.

Day 2 he made a huge post on why Mara was Town, for arguably pretty bad reasons. While pushing for scum in the SE's. And pushing for Mala. After Mala claimed Mason, he was once again on Marashu + skitter/datisi. And again, today, it's being setup to lynch me, and once I flip town, "oops it was a bus better lynch skitter".

My personal theory is that clidd yesterday said skitter/mara makes more sense than datisi/mara because i'm an easier lynch in final 3, and he was planning to get skitter today. However, it shifted because I'm actively saying that I'm not sure, that I'm not certain skitter is the partner, while skitter seems to be deadset on lynching me. So once i flip town it's gonna be easy to tomorrow say "wow skitter was wrong on datisi skitter must be scum".

am i certain in this read? no. i feel like none of the 4 of you make 100% sense as Mara's partner. But if yall could at least give what i've written here some thought before you hang me, that'd be swell.

[Maduisha]

I think the Clidd theory makes sense, but I don't know if it makes sense to me because of it fueling my own paranoia, or because it holds water. Either way, his play up until the moment he pushed to reveal Malakittens was very towny to me, and I already know he does this kind of thing as town as well, so I'm going to put my bet on me being paranoid and Clidd is town. Which leaves me Datisi (my townread all game), Skitter and Word, two of which I don't know how to read. Reading Marashu's ISO only made one thing clear to me: he was trying to play with wifom and create so many interactions that finding his partner through association would be very hard. I really don't know what to do, and I admit I'm tempted to sheep Clidd if he makes a final read I can get behind, because I can't find anything decisive myself.

[word321]

Now, this is quite more interesting. Now, I have a good reason for clearing skitter, and that is bc as I see the "meta" of psychological and intrigue games is that our word is binding. Now, of course mafia being mafia some high degree of deception is needed, and all. But I do blv there are some exeptions to this rule; since this is a recurrent game, i.e., how you play one affects how ppl view u in the others, unless one wants to make oneself a target by default, we need some type of scope on our deception. This view is an inheritance of Diplomacy, the game I talked earlier, since no one can win alone in that one, trust is a necessity and not a perk. But either way I think it applies perfectly well in Mafia too, specially since skitt is a veteran player.

The above is for the sentence "I wouldnt hardbuss day 1 on a newbie game" ; I blv this qualifies as the kind of info that wouldnt be falsified only for some extra town cred. It deals on a concept outside the game itself, in particular the fact this is a newbie match (and those kind of things, like habits and all that, I consider the safest kind), and would severely harm ones reputation. So, while I think it is not a perfect town indicative to focus on the mafia on day 1, the presence of that kind of info makes me think it is not a relevant possibility anymore.

Now, someone would need to be blind to trust every kind of info like that; deciving in that way is not against the rules, and a trust meta is just some kind of meta. Heck, in the ban forums there are cases of ppl who colluded to fake a personal emergency in some matches. A newbie game is intended to teach the meta of the site, and that includes the scope of deception that is used after all, so even if after everythin skitter is the real scum, I would simply accept defeat and say well played and all, and learn from the xp. But until somethin like that happens, I'm betting every chip that she isn't scum this time.

[word321]

Omg so many nows

[word321]

I should learn how to write better, but I try to improve, I swear

[clidd]

Sorry guys, due to some personal events, I feel that I am not so inspired to develop a breakthrough analysis. I was very excited about it, but a number of things ended up discouraging me and I couldn't finish it. Although I am a predominantly rational player, sometimes chemical reactions, entitled

''feelings''

, affect my mental energy, consequently having a delaying effect on my mental faculties and decreasing my cognitive ability. I am not aware of how to deal with these manifestations, but I believe that I just need to calm down a little and relax.

Basically, I still strongly believe in the hypothesis that

Datisi is scum

, as naturally I don't see a window where

Skitter would hand over her partner

heavily via buss. All my actions in this game, especially my megalomaniacal analyzes (

Marashu

/

TRQ

~ 1414/627) are beyond the reach of my

scum-range

for creativity and observational/descriptive skills, and the fact that Datisi is blind to this (because he saw how

scum!clidd

plays and would be able to distinguish the difference), indicate that his mentality is not as open as I expected from the

town!Datisi

. I also believe that if he had appealed to me, maybe I would have changed my mind, but this whole transition from

'' I don't know who is scum ''

to

'' skitter is scum ''

and then to

'' clidd is scum ''

when I made it clear that my desire to vote on him, seems sporadic and inconsistent with what I was hoping to see.

I am inclined to wait for Skitter, to see what kind of testimony she has regarding this. Although I don't see anything changing.

[clidd]

I would probably be able to finish on Saturday, even being discouraged. But I prefer to be honest than to deliver something opaque, without passion.

[clidd]

And as I said earlier in post 1706 applies to Datisi, as I am ready to deal with the possible consequences if I'm wrong.

[Karnage]

Mod Note

Vote count incoming...