Doubles Mafia Day 2/ Day 2

[Shuichi Saihara]

Trojan I forgot if you said earlier but who is your preferred lynch in Halloween rn?

Right now? Sushi.

ok why not push the wagon there then? Vecna is already on there. Rn I don't really feel like you're doing anything to push the lynch away from Vecna to Shuichi if that's what you want.
(no this is not some sort of subtle attempt to get you to unvote me)

Auro did question my tr on SS. Apparently he has quite an impressive scum meta?

Auro was just trolling all of you when he offered to carte blanche sheep Gobbles. He wouldn’t even sheep nsg unless he was convinced she was right.

I can’t speak for Auro, I will have to reread (or actually just read)your respective ISOs.

[Shuichi Saihara]

I hate being good at this game

[RadiantCowbells]

Auro was just trolling all of you when he offered to carte blanche sheep Gobbles. He wouldn’t even sheep nsg unless he was convinced she was right.

I can’t speak for Auro, I will have to reread (or actually just read)your respective ISOs.

Yeah this.

[mastina]

given you're just looking for some shitty label to throw on me

I've multiple times said that I did no such label to you.
That you continue to insist I did is on you, not me.
I never labeled you as an abuser.

[SirCakez]

Can you point to some specific posts that show this?

You know, I went to his ISO and began quoting a lot of posts - can you take a look at it and tell me how much legitimate analysis he's offering (which in roleplay mode should be higher than normal, really) versus snark or noise?

-Stuxnet

I will ISO Shuichi tomorrow, he's someone I didn't hit today. Remind me if I don't.

I don't have any meta with Vecna so I don't know how his playstyle is affecting this. But I still see more scum motivation in his posts than town. "salvaging the slot" especially (I know this could be town but I'm not seeing it). And it fits really well with mastina!scum which is pretty much confirmed in my eyes (I know you disagree).

I'm making a judgment on his character from current play to arrive at that conclusion. And also, Amished tell involves ISO reading, do you see evidence of that? Also, another question - if you replaced into a slot would you not check a VC before diving in?

A Mastina scumflip would make me reconsider a lot of my solve, but I don't see how it fits with Vecna. What's the link?

-Stuxnet

I think in the context of Vecna's catchup he may have easily self-ISOed. In some cases I would- I have replaced in before without reading VCs though.

To be fair, it's also difficult for me to keep track of votes especially with all the cross-game votes

That is a good point, this game with its unique mechanics are really confusing.

Why are you voting Vecna?

@Vecna, can you link one of your scumgames? @Cakes too, preferably. I’m already familiar with SS and he played quite differently in PA so dunno. \_0_/

Fair warning this are old
Was converted to scum mid-game here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=68608
This game is pretty famous, I won in LyLo as scum here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=69902
I was in the hydra Salt Squad in a weird sort of scum role here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=67413
Was third-party sort-of scum here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=66512
Was scum lynched day 1 here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=68256
Replaced in as scum mid game here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=56&t=65649

I went over this earlier so quick summary - he fit some tell Molla has about scum immediately checking their own ISO, his catchup and subsequent posts seemed overtly concerned with getting votes off of him, his cases and posts have been bad (I called out some specific ones in my ISO)
And Jormun was really scummy but we all know that

The Amished tell doesn't quite fit in this scenario, I think. How do you know he checked the ISO and not just the votecount on replacing in? And I think the applicability of this tell varies per player (as do all generic tells), Vecna doesn't seem the type to do that more likely as scum. His pride and repeated calling of his "freestyle streams" as being towny doesn't feel like a scum move, really.

And yes, he was explicitly concerned about getting off lynch. He stated he's salvaging the slot, no?

I concede that Joe Burger was scummy, although even there we don't have access to completed town games to see how his scum meta matches up.

Parts where I'd have to check your ISO, later

-Stuxnet

I don't have any meta with Vecna so I don't know how his playstyle is affecting this. But I still see more scum motivation in his posts than town. "salvaging the slot" especially (I know this could be town but I'm not seeing it). And it fits really well with mastina!scum which is pretty much confirmed in my eyes (I know you disagree).

Can you link/quote a game, where Mastina played exactly like this as scum?

I am not aware of any other mastina scum games honestly. at least in my immediate memory.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not saying you should go die in a fire but you're talking like someone who should go die in a fire yes I am being very kosher and kind and staying on the right side of the rules o w o

[mastina]

Fyi Mastina, I’ve had plenty of arguments with RC and the way he has handled them, is the absolute antithesis of what an abuser does.

Yes because he isn't one, that is readily apparent enough but this is a nonissue given I never called him one.

[SirCakez]

oh yeah @TH the link between Mastina-Vecna is gamestate from VCs. I think with the wagons at the time competing but neither being sent home it fits.

[mastina]

What power would scum need against two neighbors? That’s barely any town power.

Presumably, the fearmongered cross-game kind.

[farside]

Why is TH making work for people?

[RadiantCowbells]

Never said there absolutely was cross game power.

Simply said there could be so be wary of it.

[Shuichi Saihara]

idk why i fat shame when i am fat but its funny all the same.

~fire

no it's not

[Trojan Horses]

Auro was just trolling all of you when he offered to carte blanche sheep Gobbles. He wouldn’t even sheep nsg unless he was convinced she was right.

I can’t speak for Auro, I will have to reread (or actually just read)your respective ISOs.

Yeah this.

Yes, but listening to NSG's arguments will likely convince me she's right. I wouldn't *blindly* sheep anyone.

ok why not push the wagon there then? Vecna is already on there. Rn I don't really feel like you're doing anything to push the lynch away from Vecna to Shuichi if that's what you want.
(no this is not some sort of subtle attempt to get you to unvote me)

Would you vote Sushi with me?

There are ways to push the lynch off someone that aren't "push someone else" including appeals to spend more time in the game, summarize reasoning which I can argue against, etc.

-Stuxnet

Why don't you care that one of your heads is townreading me

I did. I spoke to Nancy in my discord chat about it.

-Stuxnet

[mastina]

Then, just straight up call it “manipulaive” then and don’t compare it to what any kind of abuser does.

I did call it manipulative--I have been calling it manipulative. I've been calling it manipulative the whole game long, and the post triggering it was an extraordinarily other level of sheer manipulation, and the first word to come to my mind to describe that type of extraordinary out of the ordinary beyond all normal level of manipulation, manipulation, was the type of language an abuser would use, to make a point--that abusers use incredibly high levels of manipulative language, and that RC was using incredibly high levels of manipulative language.

I will apologize for an unintended interpretation of my language--that's fair enough. I can be sorry for making a comment that was triggering because it was misidentified as calling someone abusive. I can apologize for that, yes. Sure. Consider this an apology for that.
I can't apologize for something I never did.

[Shuichi Saihara]

before I respond to some questions aimed at me I just want to say I am very close to PMing the listmods. I'm sick of this argument, it's gone way over the line and I like the players in this game and don't want it to end in replacements and bans.

please do this is clearly called for

i'm barely reading the thread at this point and am surprised no one else is visibly considering replacing out but i'm having negative fun here

[Trojan Horses]

ok why not push the wagon there then? Vecna is already on there. Rn I don't really feel like you're doing anything to push the lynch away from Vecna to Shuichi if that's what you want.
(no this is not some sort of subtle attempt to get you to unvote me)

Would you vote Sushi with me?

There are ways to push the lynch off someone that aren't "push someone else" including appeals to spend more time in the game, summarize reasoning which I can argue against, etc.

-Stuxnet

Why don't you care that one of your heads is townreading me

I think this is like the second time in this game, your comment on one of our posts made no sense and didn’t even reference you.

[mastina]

you have private topics? elaborate

Yes I always do. Review topics, mod topics, as things outside of games, and obviously I can have game private topics, but even if said topics are fully public knowledge I wouldn't be able to discuss them in this game because I have none from this game and thus the ongoing game rule applies. Saying, in general, "I checked my PTs", is fine, elaborating any past that is not so this is as much as I am legally allowed to disclose.

[Shuichi Saihara]

ok why not push the wagon there then? Vecna is already on there. Rn I don't really feel like you're doing anything to push the lynch away from Vecna to Shuichi if that's what you want.
(no this is not some sort of subtle attempt to get you to unvote me)

Would you vote Sushi with me?

There are ways to push the lynch off someone that aren't "push someone else" including appeals to spend more time in the game, summarize reasoning which I can argue against, etc.

-Stuxnet

Why don't you care that one of your heads is townreading me

I think this is like the second time in this game, your comment on one of our posts made no sense and didn’t even reference you.

uhhhhh can you not read or

[RadiantCowbells]

That's not an apology. That's the equivalent of "I'm sorry that you misunderstood and it upset you" which is not an apology and is the actual kind of language toxic people use

[Trojan Horses]

ok why not push the wagon there then? Vecna is already on there. Rn I don't really feel like you're doing anything to push the lynch away from Vecna to Shuichi if that's what you want.
(no this is not some sort of subtle attempt to get you to unvote me)

Would you vote Sushi with me?

There are ways to push the lynch off someone that aren't "push someone else" including appeals to spend more time in the game, summarize reasoning which I can argue against, etc.

-Stuxnet

Why don't you care that one of your heads is townreading me

I think this is like the second time in this game, your comment on one of our posts made no sense and didn’t even reference you.

I have a slight townlean on you atm, it will get clearer after I see some flips.

~N

[mastina]

And with that I am caught up and finally.
Eight hours later.
Leaving the thread.

[Trojan Horses]

Why is TH making work for people?

???

[Trojan Horses]

ok why not push the wagon there then? Vecna is already on there. Rn I don't really feel like you're doing anything to push the lynch away from Vecna to Shuichi if that's what you want.
(no this is not some sort of subtle attempt to get you to unvote me)

Would you vote Sushi with me?

There are ways to push the lynch off someone that aren't "push someone else" including appeals to spend more time in the game, summarize reasoning which I can argue against, etc.

-Stuxnet

Why don't you care that one of your heads is townreading me

I think this is like the second time in this game, your comment on one of our posts made no sense and didn’t even reference you.

uhhhhh can you not read or

Auro didn’t mention RC anywhere in this post.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean auros other heads are townreading Ceph and he's voting Ceph anyway.

[Trojan Horses]

Auro in his own words doesn't care about other people's reads if they conflict with his own.

Why don't you ask Nancy if she gets this feeling from me as a hydra?
I don't see where I said I don't care about other reads if they conflict with mine. Is this about my scumreading Sushi while NSG "hard townreads" (she doesn't) him?

Why is TH making work for people?

???

You're asking people to link stuff. I don't see any problem with it.

-Stuxnet