Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[Tanner]

Honestly I almost think George is Town for his spectacularly shitty defense of Drew if Drew ends up flipping red. Bussing as fast as possible is more in line of what I'd expect of his partners.

Prana, are you intentionally pushing the """contradiction"""?

Though I'll concede I'm also curious why Una finds me suspicious.

[Drew-Sta]

Re George: Borderline Bastard™? I don't think I've ever even heard of something like that.

Re Drew: No. But it's much more likely the first person is the liar rather than the counterclaim. Hell, if he really wanted to get you lynched, he didn't even have to do that by claiming Miller and killing himself tomorrow! People were already suspecting you.

Sure. So if people were already suspecting me, why would I throw an obviously suspect role claim out there to make things worse? Seems I've attracted a whole lot more attention to myself with it, than leaving it be.

You're not looking at the intent of my posts here. I've not voted. Not even in RVS. Why would I, if I was scum, not try to throw you off the scent and WIFOM my way out of this? I've already said I expect to die very early. I know this. I want to make sure whomever I vote for, I'm convinced of who I think they are, so that when you people come back and analyse later, you might go 'Oh, Drew, the miller, he said X was someone he felt was mafia - let's try that'.

It's called trying to play for the town win, not my own survival (something townies do because they fear being lynched and only see survival as the testament to a good game played).

I don't deny I rocked the boat. That's what we're supposed to do though.

Because he's the counterclaim?

And all counterclaims are right?

No, but usually a counterclaim comes late in the game, not day one to a miller claim, which would lead to them being lynched day 2.

A scum counterclaiming usually happens in lylo or mylo.

Think about the bolded here...

Have you possibly conceived of the fact there might be two? I realise that's wildly crazy, but in this instance it will be shown that either there are two.

It is perfectly normal for the counterclaim to be treated credulously. Because usually there's only one miller. So what are you going to do when I flip town and conceive of there being two..?

I agree with Farside that UnaBomber's posts are beginning to smell. Their not being open to the possibility of two millers appears to me to be them accepting an easy way to lynch me to get to night.

Did I vote you? Nope, and you can bet yo sweet PM-flip that I didn't for a reason.
I'm all about discussion happening D1.
Something to chew on D2, and that's what we should be getting.

I was just interested in seeing who's willing to vote for you straight out the gate if they felt like it was an "OK" thing to do.

Haven't seen too many votes, and that might mean something in the long run.

Your analysis is poor, to say the least. Followed by this:

VOTE: Tanner <---- this right is far more likely to yield a scumflip.

I consider you a high chance of being scum.

I agree with Farside that UnaBomber's posts are beginning to smell. Their not being open to the possibility of two millers appears to me to be them accepting an easy way to lynch me to get to night.

Did I vote you? Nope, and you can bet yo sweet PM-flip that I didn't for a reason.
I'm all about discussion happening D1.
Something to chew on D2, and that's what we should be getting.

I was just interested in seeing who's willing to vote for you straight out the gate if they felt like it was an "OK" thing to do.

Haven't seen too many votes, and that might mean something in the long run.

OK, I do not see a world where we have two millers.
I did get some nasty flashbacks from a game where I was a Town-Universal Backup though, and I fought the "claimed Miller"-lynch until the end..
I believe that same game had a Doc and other useful stuff as well, and I got slapped with a Miller-tag starting from N2.

Anyhoo, I guess we are ready for the lynch now?
Don't think much of anything useful will come from the scumteam anymore, now that one of them is already caught red-handed?

These 2 thoughts do not line up.

I agree with your analysis.

[Drew-Sta]

Honestly I almost think George is Town for his spectacularly shitty defense of Drew if Drew ends up flipping red. Bussing as fast as possible is more in line of what I'd expect of his partners.

Prana, are you intentionally pushing the """contradiction"""?

Though I'll concede I'm also curious why Una finds me suspicious.

Why is George town? You have buddied him twice now. I want a stronger analysis on why you believe in him.

[Drew-Sta]

I might add, while I know George is right about me, his current behaviour is somewhat-buddying to me also.

[Tanner]

Sure. So if people were already suspecting me, why would I throw an obviously suspect role claim out there to make things worse? Seems I've attracted a whole lot more attention to myself with it, than leaving it be.

Not quite. Right after you claimed Miller, 2 people unvoted. It only started acting as an attention attraction once there was a counterclaim, which you at the time didn't know would be.

[Drew-Sta]

Sure. So if people were already suspecting me, why would I throw an obviously suspect role claim out there to make things worse? Seems I've attracted a whole lot more attention to myself with it, than leaving it be.

Not quite. Right after you claimed Miller, 2 people unvoted. It only started acting as an attention attraction once there was a counterclaim, which you at the time didn't know would be.

Mate, scum throwing a hail mary like this after, what, five pages? You’ve got to be kidding.

[Tanner]

Okay, so imagine the world in which scum!Drew decides to fakeclaim Miller. And gets screwed over by there being an actual Miller that counterclaims him. Tell me, what are Drew's partners doing? Is it:

(a) offering a shitty defense of Drew that they know will look absolutely horrible once Drew flips (and he's gonna flip one way or the other, because a double Miller claim *has* to get resolved before LyLo):

But Mavs, you pretty much did the same thing. You counter claimed him like 5 pages in. And It's not impossible to have two millers in the game. I don't really think that's a scum-trait. Plus, Drew even said there's probably gonna be a vig that shoots him. It's probably a better bet to let that happen tonight.

Why is your reaction that one of them is lying?

My first instinct was that just because there's multiple of a role, doesn't mean that it's a fake claim.

(b) turbobus while they're ahead to farm what little towncred they can from the flip?

lol brilliant, I don't think any setup review mod would have the balls to approve a Normal with 2 millers.

VOTE: Drew

I mean it would have probably been better if had let him interact with more people and claim later in the day so that we can catch the other scums as well. But oh well

Granted, I might be slightly tunneled on Knightmare, but you get my point. Knightmare's reaction is something I would sooner except from scum than George's - in the event that Drew flips red.

[Tanner]

Sure. So if people were already suspecting me, why would I throw an obviously suspect role claim out there to make things worse? Seems I've attracted a whole lot more attention to myself with it, than leaving it be.

Not quite. Right after you claimed Miller, 2 people unvoted. It only started acting as an attention attraction once there was a counterclaim, which you at the time didn't know would be.

Mate, scum throwing a hail mary like this after, what, five pages? You’ve got to be kidding.

I don't know what to tell you. I'm trying to go through possible scenarios, but double Miller claim? It seems much more likely that one of the claims is lying.

[Drew-Sta]

@Tanner - far better analysis.

I wish I would be around to see your face when I flip town.

[Tanner]

Ya know, I really want to believe in the Innocent Child double Miller setup. That would be such a meme.

[Tanner]

Drew, are you currently thinking mavs is Town or scum?

[Drew-Sta]

Sure. So if people were already suspecting me, why would I throw an obviously suspect role claim out there to make things worse? Seems I've attracted a whole lot more attention to myself with it, than leaving it be.

Not quite. Right after you claimed Miller, 2 people unvoted. It only started acting as an attention attraction once there was a counterclaim, which you at the time didn't know would be.

Mate, scum throwing a hail mary like this after, what, five pages? You’ve got to be kidding.

I don't know what to tell you. I'm trying to go through possible scenarios, but double Miller claim? It seems much more likely that one of the claims is lying.

It’s more likely we have an unusual set up.

Ya know, I really want to believe in the Innocent Child double Miller setup. That would be such a meme.

Yes. I think we’re on to a famous one.

Drew, are you currently thinking mavs is Town or scum?

No. I doubt very much mavs would counterclaim falsely. If he did, he could still claim miller after I flip, saying ‘Who would have thought it?’ Then believe he will skate through the game. I find that possibility extremely low. And if it is true, and he succeeds? He has balls the size of church bells then.

[Knightmare491]

I think at the moment I mostly agree with your list. Other than what I've already said about Knightmare (wasn't pushing Drew until the cc), I'm suspocious of him for somewhat unrelated reasons.

Now I'm curious, please tell the class.

[Wake1]

OK, so what are all the claimed roles so far please?

[Knightmare491]

Because PD gave a brief reason for doing so, as Farside's was a naked vote.

UNVOTE:

Let's not make it L-2

VOTE: Tanner

You saw this as a reason? It's more of a declaration.

[Knightmare491]

Honestly I almost think George is Town for his spectacularly shitty defense of Drew if Drew ends up flipping red. Bussing as fast as possible is more in line of what I'd expect of his partners.

It's a fair assessment. I don't know what sort of exp GB has in the game of mafia, but I have enough to know that 2 millers is close to impossible in a "normal" game and I do not believe Mavs is that bad of a mafia player that he randomly decides to CC town which is why I was quick to vote.

[Knightmare491]

OK, so what are all the claimed roles so far please?

Drew-sta claimed Miller when he was under some pressure.
Mavs later CCed him.

[Riabi]

Here are some of my thoughts on where we are

... That being said... and this may be a ludicrous idea, but it's in my head and I'd rather post it for others to chime in on. What if we don't have ANY millers? What if it's a double bluff from scum? We lynch one of them, the other coasts to victory under a "confirmed town" heading.

Of all the possibilities being thrown around, this one is the worst. I think a double bluff would be idiotic. The best move for town is to lynch/vig/otherwise kill BOTH of them. Any town that would let a claimed miller get through to the end of the game like that deserves to lose, in my mind.

166
I agree with farside here. Una does appear to be double-speaking here. Is it scummy? Hard to say, but, it's worth noting, I think.

As of now, my read for scumteam is una, george and drew. I'm sus of drew for obv reasons. I'm sus of george because of his spectacularly shitty defense for drew. Una is sus for defending george by pushing tanner. I think either Una or Drew were the bus target because of the quotes in 166.
Does anyone have the vote count on drew?

This post is just awful. It reeks of low effort. Null-read on salad right now, but, man, if you're going to post so infrequently, maybe put a BIT more effort into the posts when you do?

All that said, I accept the possibility that there are two millers, but, it doesn't seem very likely to me. I think it's way more likely that one of them (Drew, probably) is lying. Either way, like I said above, I think they both need to die, and as quickly as possible. Note though, that when I say "as quickly as possible" I mean in terms of game days, not necessarily meaning I think we should quick-lynch. I generally don't like quick-lynches without a damn good reason, and I think that there's value in discussion.

In that vein, I'm willing to vote Drew now, but, I don't want to put him too close to being lynched just yet, so I'm going to hold off on my actual vote until we get a vote count. If he's above L-2, I'll vote for him in a heartbeat.

@Mod, could we get a vote count please?

[Drew-Sta]

OK, so what are all the claimed roles so far please?

Drew-sta claimed Miller when he was under some pressure.
Mavs later CCed him.

Oh please, that was not pressure at all. I was what, 3, maybe four votes in? Not unusual at all. If I was in the verge of being lynched and claimed that then you’d have a point maybe.

I also have a provocative style of posting. It attracts attention. So I’m used to having heat on me.

[Drew-Sta]

Here are some of my thoughts on where we are

... That being said... and this may be a ludicrous idea, but it's in my head and I'd rather post it for others to chime in on. What if we don't have ANY millers? What if it's a double bluff from scum? We lynch one of them, the other coasts to victory under a "confirmed town" heading.

Of all the possibilities being thrown around, this one is the worst. I think a double bluff would be idiotic. The best move for town is to lynch/vig/otherwise kill BOTH of them. Any town that would let a claimed miller get through to the end of the game like that deserves to lose, in my mind.

166
I agree with farside here. Una does appear to be double-speaking here. Is it scummy? Hard to say, but, it's worth noting, I think.

As of now, my read for scumteam is una, george and drew. I'm sus of drew for obv reasons. I'm sus of george because of his spectacularly shitty defense for drew. Una is sus for defending george by pushing tanner. I think either Una or Drew were the bus target because of the quotes in 166.
Does anyone have the vote count on drew?

This post is just awful. It reeks of low effort. Null-read on salad right now, but, man, if you're going to post so infrequently, maybe put a BIT more effort into the posts when you do?

All that said, I accept the possibility that there are two millers, but, it doesn't seem very likely to me. I think it's way more likely that one of them (Drew, probably) is lying. Either way, like I said above, I think they both need to die, and as quickly as possible. Note though, that when I say "as quickly as possible" I mean in terms of game days, not necessarily meaning I think we should quick-lynch. I generally don't like quick-lynches without a damn good reason, and I think that there's value in discussion.

In that vein, I'm willing to vote Drew now, but, I don't want to put him too close to being lynched just yet, so I'm going to hold off on my actual vote until we get a vote count. If he's above L-2, I'll vote for him in a heartbeat.

@Mod, could we get a vote count please?

I can’t wait to flip town. The egg on peoples faces...

I don’t proclaim to be a brilliant player, but gosh, the completely retarded reasoning of ‘it’s totally unlikely, therefore impossible and Drew is lying’ reasoning is some of the worst I’ve ever seen.

I’ve advocated I die to help town get a smaller pool of people to scrutinise, but the lack of analysis is shocking, particularly on my posts.

[Knightmare491]

That being said... and this may be a ludicrous idea, but it's in my head and I'd rather post it for others to chime in on. What if we don't have ANY millers? What if it's a double bluff from scum? We lynch one of them, the other coasts to victory under a "confirmed town" heading.

Seriously? Don't you think we'd realise this if Mavs magically stays alive till day 4 or somehing.

[Knightmare491]

OK, so what are all the claimed roles so far please?

Drew-sta claimed Miller when he was under

some

pressure.
Mavs later CCed him.

Oh please, that was not pressure at all. I was what, 3, maybe four votes in? Not unusual at all. If I was in the verge of being lynched and claimed that then you’d have a point maybe.

I also have a provocative style of posting. It attracts attention. So I’m used to having heat on me.

Your interpretation is different than mine. It's okay

[Knightmare491]

The best move for town is to lynch/vig/otherwise kill BOTH of them. Any town that would let a claimed miller get through to the end of the game like that deserves to lose, in my mind.

I like how you say x is worst and then go on to say something even worse. Yes in regular circumstances keeping a miller alive might be bad, but a miller who CCed a fake claim should be killed too? You okay there?

[Riabi]

All that said, I accept the possibility that there are two millers, but, it doesn't seem very likely to me. I think it's way more likely that one of them (Drew, probably) is lying.

I can’t wait to flip town. The egg on peoples faces...

I don’t proclaim to be a brilliant player, but gosh, the completely retarded reasoning of ‘it’s totally unlikely, therefore impossible and Drew is lying’ reasoning is some of the worst I’ve ever seen.

I feel like I should point out that the argument you claim I'm making is literally not the one I'm making. I never said "it's unlikely, therefore impossible" I said, it's unlikely, and so you lying is more likely. I know you have to defend yourself but, mischaracterizing other's arguments is maybe not the most effective way to do that...

[Drew-Sta]

All that said, I accept the possibility that there are two millers, but, it doesn't seem very likely to me. I think it's way more likely that one of them (Drew, probably) is lying.

I can’t wait to flip town. The egg on peoples faces...

I don’t proclaim to be a brilliant player, but gosh, the completely retarded reasoning of ‘it’s totally unlikely, therefore impossible and Drew is lying’ reasoning is some of the worst I’ve ever seen.

I feel like I should point out that the argument you claim I'm making is literally not the one I'm making. I never said "it's unlikely, therefore impossible" I said, it's unlikely, and so you lying is more likely. I know you have to defend yourself but, mischaracterizing other's arguments is maybe not the most effective way to do that...

You didn’t make that clear in your original post. Maybe be clearer, and then I won’t confuse your intentions.

What you’ve done (a form of gaslighting) is very effective at making a person look guilty, because you’re changing the past on them.

I’m not a fan of that behaviour and it stinks.