Mini Normal 2135 (Endgame)

[Wake1]

Wait, we have a Cop, too?

[Tanner]

Holy shit. We have a claimed Rolecop. Have you read the game?

[mavsfan41]

Also, I note only one kill, so either we have a doc and they protected mavs, or we have no vig (or it's an even night only one, which if this game has two millers, is entirely possible).

There's a lot to do with mafia not killing wake, killing PRs is a higher priority for them. Yes wake can't be lynched and they'll have to kill him at some point but killing him night 1 would be pointless.

Plus, any doc role we may have would be on Wake, absolutely no point in risking shooting the only confirmed town role.

Is this weird? First he suggests the doc is on me (why? I have no idea. With Drew flipping miller, I wouldn’t protect the other claimed miller if I was a doc) then he absolutely believes the doc was protecting Wake88.

Is the first one here speculating who a vig would target (trying to put themselves in the vigs’s shoes) and the other reads like justification of why scum didn’t target Wake?

Why not mention Wake in the first post instead of me? Cause of the target who was killed in Farside. To believe a vig would target her is ridiculous and therefore killed by scum. So only one death with two killing roles would mean I was saved by the doc from the vig which is extremely unlikely as the doc would be protecting Wake88. The adding of me in the first post reads like Prana trying to speculate on a vig knowing they shot at Farside.

This is weird right? Am I making sense?

[mavsfan41]

@Wake88: I’ve never played with an IC before and looked up the role. The first paragraph does mention how a mod-confirmed IC from the start has fallen out of favor cause it can be boring for the player in this situation. That seems like case I take it?

[Wake1]

Holy shit. We have a claimed Rolecop. Have you read the game?

...have you?

I read that we have a claimed rolecop, but there was also mention of a possible Cop, so that's why I'm asking. For clarification.

[Tanner]

Yes, I have. The only reason anyone is thinking of Cops is because "hurr durr there was Miller there must be Cop".

[PranaDevil]

Also, I note only one kill, so either we have a doc and they protected mavs, or we have no vig (or it's an even night only one, which if this game has two millers, is entirely possible).

There's a lot to do with mafia not killing wake, killing PRs is a higher priority for them. Yes wake can't be lynched and they'll have to kill him at some point but killing him night 1 would be pointless.

Plus, any doc role we may have would be on Wake, absolutely no point in risking shooting the only confirmed town role.

Is this weird? First he suggests the doc is on me (why? I have no idea. With Drew flipping miller, I wouldn’t protect the other claimed miller if I was a doc) then he absolutely believes the doc was protecting Wake88.

Is the first one here speculating who a vig would target (trying to put themselves in the vigs’s shoes) and the other reads like justification of why scum didn’t target Wake?

Why not mention Wake in the first post instead of me? Cause of the target who was killed in Farside. To believe a vig would target her is ridiculous and therefore killed by scum. So only one death with two killing roles would mean I was saved by the doc from the vig which is extremely unlikely as the doc would be protecting Wake88. The adding of me in the first post reads like Prana trying to speculate on a vig knowing they shot at Farside.

This is weird right? Am I making sense?

Not weird.

If we had a vig, they absolutely would have targeted you. Or at least should have. The only way we get a single kill WITH a vig, is if a potential doc targets you. So either we don't have a vig (entirely plausible, even likely), or we do, and for some reason the doc targeted you (which, I agree would be weird).

The realistic target for a doc would be Wake, which would very much NOT be a vig target.

I do not see a vig hitting farside, while the doc protected wake with scum targeting him too. Thus, the likely option is we have no vig.

I've no clue what the set up is, but I'm thinking double miller, rolecop, IC may be the town side of things. Maybe a doc as well. I do not believe, at this stage, that Persivul is lying about the Rolecop role, that also means I now trust mavs, and Wake is already confirmed. To me, that gives us three solid town positions, and we should look amongst the rest (and yes, I accept that means I should be included in that for everyone else) of us for the scum.

[mavsfan41]

@Prana: I understand that. My issue more comes with you mentioning me being possibly saved by the doctor as that or no vig and then later with the doctor obviously being on Wake88. It just makes the first post look like a potential scum slip of you taking out Farside and later justifying why Wake88 wasn’t the target of the night kill.

[PranaDevil]

It was more me just replying to things as I read them, and having a shit memory about stuff. But it still stands. The only reason you're still alive is one of two options:

1 - We don't have a vig

2 - We have a vig and the doc protected you.

I vote option 1.

[mavsfan41]

Why would the doc protect me? They would be protecting Wake88. I highly doubt a doctor would protect a claimed miller over an actual mod-confirmed townie. Protecting me, the doctor might be potentially protecting scum. Protecting Wake88, the doctor KNOWS they’re protecting town.

You even said the same about the doctor in 524. To think they’d consider targeting me is ridiculous. A doctor shouldn’t try to protect a claimed miller from a vig, they should be protecting a mod-confirmed townie from scum. I feel as though you know this. Suggesting I’m alive cause I was protected by the vig feels like a scum slip of knowing you targeted Farcry over Wake88

[Red Panda]

I disagree due to mafia could avoid killing the IC due to them thinking there is a doc and protecting Wake but in all reality protecting you.

[Knightmare491]

@GB what are you trying to say by saying that I'm being opportunistic? You think I'm opportunistic scum? Then where's the vote?

[Knightmare491]

@mavs talk to me about your GB read please.

[mavsfan41]

Out of the WIFOM situations you’ve brought up, I find it much much easier to think scum would target Farside WIFOM’ing themselves out of a Wake88 kill and even hoping to target to a PR (or even not being interested in Wake88 at all) then I think a doctor would WIFOM out of a Wake88 target to protect anyone they have doubts about even being town especially a claimed miller.

Scum’s pool of targets last night were very large allowing them to WIFOM more easier out of a Wake88 or maybe even not being interested. The doctor’s pool of saves was essentially limited to player. WIFOM’ing out of a Wake88 save seems so unlikely.

Prana even stated he believes the doc’s hands were tied with saving Wake88 in 524.

[mavsfan41]

@mavs talk to me about your GB read please.

I will say that George Bailey accepted the possibility of two millers so much easier than anyone else that it felt off. Meaning if he was scum, he would know Drew is a miller as the only players who knew Drew was a miller is Drew and scum. But if he did know Drew was miller, with the amount he defended Drew, the tiny amount of town Cred scum!George would gain didn’t even make sense as a CC’ed miller almost certainly leads to a lynch and anyone on the wagon would therefore have plausible deniability. So town cred for not being on the Drew wagon specifically is a wash. Scum didn’t need to be on that wagon to push a lynch.

But.....352 and 433 are both weird implying George knew Drew would flip miller. This combined with the fact that George put Drew at L-1 after spending so much of the day supporting the theory of a 2 miller set up with the only real justification for flipping and voting Drew is an awkward post in 350. All the posts mentioned in this clumsy paragraph are clumsy themselves with “i guess, if I have to vote Drew I will, but I think he’s town.”

I’m kinda over my blood lust for George Bailey in pursuit of other targets. He is no longer at the top of my list but still leaning scum.

How do you feel about the Luca Blight wagon? Prana makes sense to myself but I’m having a real hard time explaining it. George would be 3rd I suppose on that list.

[GeorgeBailey]

@GB what are you trying to say by saying that I'm being opportunistic? You think I'm opportunistic scum? Then where's the vote?

I think your votes feel very opportunistic so far.

So far your two votes have been on me and Drew.

VOTE: Drew

I mean it would have probably been better if had let him interact with more people and claim later in the day so that we can catch the other scums as well. But oh well

VOTE: GB

Both on wagons gaining traction. It feels like you only want a safe place to park your vote. And both are very safe wagons.

VOTE: Knightmare491

[GeorgeBailey]

What I don't understand though is why that claim confirms Persivul? If he is a scum role-cop, mavs seems like a pretty easy/convenient target to gain town cred.

Because when an actual PR claims, it puts scum in un-needed situation.

I feel like if this is a scum gambit, then it'll unravel itself in time.

[Wake1]

Whether or not we have a Vig will be made apparent very soon.

I'm leaning on it not being the case, but who knows.

If there were a Vig I'd rather that person outright claim, so that we can narrow down the field even further. If a Vig claimed the that would put even more pressure on Scum as the walls slowly cave in.

[Tanner]

Mister Innocent Child, when can we expect something actually game related?

[PranaDevil]

@mavs talk to me about your GB read please.

I will say that George Bailey accepted the possibility of two millers so much easier than anyone else that it felt off. Meaning if he was scum, he would know Drew is a miller as the only players who knew Drew was a miller is Drew and scum. But if he did know Drew was miller, with the amount he defended Drew, the tiny amount of town Cred scum!George would gain didn’t even make sense as a CC’ed miller almost certainly leads to a lynch and anyone on the wagon would therefore have plausible deniability. So town cred for not being on the Drew wagon specifically is a wash. Scum didn’t need to be on that wagon to push a lynch.

I agree with this fully.

But.....352 and 433 are both weird implying George knew Drew would flip miller. This combined with the fact that George put Drew at L-1 after spending so much of the day supporting the theory of a 2 miller set up with the only real justification for flipping and voting Drew is an awkward post in 350. All the posts mentioned in this clumsy paragraph are clumsy themselves with “i guess, if I have to vote Drew I will, but I think he’s town.”

There was zero chance Drew was surviving day 1 after you CC'd him. The only reason you aren't being lynched right now is because Persivul Rolecopped you, meaning either you are both town, or you played a blinder of a shot, and it's worked... of course, it needs to continue working for that to pay off in that case. So the above, is understandable, because even if someone believes there's a chance of double miller, keeping them both alive day 1 is also completely stupid.

[quote="In post 539, mavsfan41"How do you feel about the Luca Blight wagon? Prana makes sense to myself but I’m having a real hard time explaining it. George would be 3rd I suppose on that list.[/quote]
I only make sense because I've said "ABC" and you've decided I said "XYZ", despite it obviously not being the case. Which makes me really want to think you are scum because of it, but I also understand that it would be very much an OMGUS response, and also, I don't believe, at this stage, that Persivul is lying, meaning you must be town.

Question to everyone... do we know if the scum have day talk?

[PranaDevil]

Bah

@mod, mind fixing my quote tags?

[Red Panda]

Question to everyone... do we know if the scum have day talk?

Its not said but I would say they do. At least for now they do.

Wake - Reading back and looking thru day 1 I am nothing short of disappointed in you. You should have been pushing everyone in every direction as you are a mod confirmed townie. I mean I get holding your vote but even now why hold onto a vote and just sit there and look pretty.

As I stated the farside kill made sense just due to how she's played the game. Second I don't think we have a vig in the game but there's more to that. Then we have to take the rolecop claim into consideration and wonder if we're being lead astray due to it could be a mafia rolecop in the end and we do have a cop but they are sitting on their investigation. Not sure why though but a 2nd miller still does confuse me to some degree.

Right now I'm with Parana on option 1 of what he proposed.

I don't know maybe I'm going with my guy here. But I still feel this is scum
VOTE: UnabombaH

Something about them and their iso in day1 just didn't rub me the right way I can have more later.

[mavsfan41]

Question to everyone... do we know if the scum have day talk?

I don’t know if I’m tunneling too much onto Prana Devil but this is awkward. There’s no really reason to bring this up with the context of what he’s said in the rest of the post other than to slip this in there to play innocent “if I ask about day talk, it suggests I’m not scum or I’d know the answer.”

I don’t want to let Luca Blight off that easily but I want to vote Prana Devil.

[PranaDevil]

Question to everyone... do we know if the scum have day talk?

I don’t know if I’m tunneling too much onto Prana Devil but this is awkward. There’s no really reason to bring this up with the context of what he’s said in the rest of the post other than to slip this in there to play innocent “if I ask about day talk, it suggests I’m not scum or I’d know the answer.”

Actually.. if there's day talk, the "why would scum fake claim miller?" strategy is blown out of the water. If the scum have day talk, it's entirely possible that scum have a rolecop, and suggested someone fake claim miller, and roll with the rolecop "clearing" the miller.

Day talk would literally allow the scum to bypass stressing about how to off someone.

It's guarenteed the first miller claim would be lynched after a CC. When Drew flipped town, it's nigh on guaranteed that town would look at the other miller, it was as much as said so the day before. But what if the plan was always for the scum rolecop to claim right after?

I think a full read through is in order.

I'm very unhappy with how mavs immediately is trying to get me lynched by taking my stuff out of context, and he's doing it very deliberately, as even after explaining the facts to him, he's continuing to claim something else entirely. It's shifty as hell, and I'm wondering if scum made one hell of a ploy.

Now... if there's day talk, that's the only way I would see that working, I cannot see scum working that out independently, it would be too risky, but it would work really well if they were passing info back and forth.

Admittedly, if scum have daytalk, and a rolecop, I wonder where the town PRs are, because that would leave us with a miller and an IC. I'd expect at bare minimum a cop (due to the miller), but of course, that also means the cop would need to check Persivul tonight to make certain they're not screwing about town.

[Tanner]

...Why do you people insist on making this game more complicated than it really is?

farside was shot. She suspected Panda/Luca/Persi. Both Panda's and Luca's slots are horrible (I'd argue Panda's more so than Luca, but ya know). We swing there. Persi and mavs are of the same alignment, they're de facto cleared Town, and if (and that's a really really big if) they're scum,

it will be obvious later once actual Town PRs start coming to light.