Newbie 2004: Trash Panada Hour. Redux! GAME OVER

[gibus]

p a g e t o p

[lilith2013]

This is simply a list of people who are active. Not a good list

In case you missed it:

Haven't heard from lillili, Formerfish.. maybe I'm blind and they've posted, I've only seen 2 posts from fish so far - but again, I'm blind.

How can anyone add these guys to any suspicion list when they've only posted < 2 times?

FOS votato

I think there was miscommunication here - I had the same thought as votato which was that you were scumreading everyone in your list of 5 people. instead it just seems that you have organized the list from scummiest to least scummy or vice versa. Are you still suspicious of votato now?

I think Ironcat is just phrasing his ideas in a different way right.. seems like his 'reads' is just for a lack of positive evidence aka 'people who have posted/voted enough to be analyzed, but not cleared for townspeople yet'. He doesn't actually mean he already thinks over half of the group is strongly mafia.

Honestly I'm beginning to think Ironcat's a townsperson now. His method is pretty wack but he really believes in it, and has been really active and not afraid to push opinions and names out there, even if they're getting really controversial. I feel like a mafia member doesn't really want to do that.

Hopefully this doesn't end up biting me in the back..

I think scum would play the game close to the chest and not post out suspicions this early (?).
That being said, I've played this game on other places and this has a different feel like the whole RVS thing. On other places, people get really worked out with that but I personally find that fine.

I can't believe I'm saying this but Freddie is my town read atm but this opinion might change.
I'll try to gather more town reads when possible.

why can't you believe you're saying this? It seems like you're saying you should be townreading feathers based on his post but you don't want to for some unknown reason. comes off as fencesitty.

What is your “solve” based on?

Elimination. I townread feathers, freddie and ironcat. Not sure about votato, but his vote on the mod for taking away his opportunity to be scum looks slightly convincing.

You eliminated the active people and suspect the people who havent voted much. Holy shit, you've cracked this game wide open.

Pushing to lynch any of the SEs is not a good look on you. It kinda makes it seem like you are just wanting to make us look bad in front of all the impressionable newbies. Are you the pied piper coming to take them all out of town to murder them? I think you have an ulterior motive to your list.

I can see how this can come more from scum than from town.

How does someone questioning your naked solve where youve eliminated active people and have left the three SEs as your POE come more from scum than town. If youre right you need to convince us to follow you and vote one of your three, doing that means that people are going to ask how you came to your conclusions. Not what you are saying. Thats bullshit.

It had nothing to do with the fact that you three are SE. The response I expected from you and lilith was just brushing it off as if it was rvs garbage, and from the three townreads some speculation on it so I can search for possible scumreads from them. Obviously I don't fully townread them and I think I've mentioned how it's meaningless for me to do so in D1.

I think there's a disconnect between you expecting a response of "oh this is RVS" when we were no longer in RVS and at that point I think most people were taking posts at face value. Also, why didn't you mention brass in your expected reaction list?

also the things you guys town read me for are very easy to fake as scum

I like that votato is not afraid to push against people townreading him easily.

tinfoil hat theory: formerfish/ironcat scum pair. their back and forth so far is just theater.

Yeah I had this thought too. the argument seems overblown, like they are both really angry at each other in a way that comes across as exaggerated.

also the things you guys town read me for are very easy to fake as scum

I guess.. I don't really know a lot of nuanced techniques like some are doing here, I'm just trying to help with the process of elimination people are talking about. I might just wait for you guys to figure something out if I can't then give my vote as a +1 to help that way. Though I think you're more town for pointing out what you just said. (You could be trying to reverse-psychology that but I don't want to go down that rabbit hole, heh.)

Its real easy for scum to hide behind bad play if you let scummy plays go as just bad play

Yeah I think I agree with this. I'm not sure of anyone being mafia but Gibus is one of the only people I can find good reasons to suspect rn, just kinda tripping a lot of flags. I know that everything he's doing from the vote switching/spamming to the mason reveals could just be inexperience but it's kind of a lot together, and I don't know how much I want to assume inexperience, because even the people who aren't labeled as SEs like votato and freddie are talking like they know what they're doing. Also Fish seems like he's very experienced and he was suspecting Gibus immediately as well.

Okay wait before anyone else votes I just want to point out Gibus is one vote away from being lynched. Rn Lilith, Brass, Copykat, and me are voting him. I still suspect him but I don't want a townsperson to get rush lynched without people talking it out first, this is kinda exactly what I was worried about with the 10 day Day 1 limit.

Feathers seems to be very transparent with his thought process overall. I like them for town.

gibus, just accept that outing town PRs is bad for town and move on. this discussion is not productive at all.

I think this is also probably town motivated to try to end the PR discussion and keep the game progressing beyond theory talk. putting votato in my townleans as well.

[lilith2013]

realizing now that I probably should have split up the quotes into a few separate posts but ah well

[lilith2013]

I think people have been really quick to write off gibus as "newbtown" but I don't really see much progression in his posts or attempts to solve the game. His wagon disintegrated scarily fast. Is everyone just agreeing on "newbtown" here?

[lilith2013]

Regardless of gibus' alignment I think there is probably one scum on his wagon

[lilith2013]

brass/copykat/feathers

I'm townreading feathers, so one out of brass/copykat

will reread both ISOs now

[feathers]

I think I'll trust Brass and votato on this and also UNVOTE: Gibus.

That's the very thing you've pointed bass out for doing.

Yeah, I know.. I was asking him why he was doing it more than saying it’s wrong though, and he seems more experienced. Everyone experienced seems to be moving their vote away from Gibus actually - Brass, FormerFish, Votato. Votato also said earlier that she was with Gibus in another game and she felt Gibus was noob, and I trust votato. Looking at myself honestly I think I might have voted Gibus because I really wanted to make a successful read on a mafia, not because I had a strong case. What he’s doing could easily be noob things as well - I’ve made similar slips up myself this game. There are only two mafia but a lot of good players so I think following the lead and reevaluating myself is alright from time to time.

speaking of ironcat, im on the fence. Post #193 he says he’s okay with votato’s disagreement. I am less suspicious of people who aren’t afraid of standing in opposition to someone like votato who has strong, and well thought out opinions because it reads to me that he isn’t trying to cover up something – his opinion is what it is. His exchange with fish made him look even less suspicious, perhaps only in contrast to whatever was going on with fish and his frustrations. Then again, #243 was a childish rebuttal, but that doesn’t scream scum to me necessarily.

That’s why I felt Ironcat is a townsperson as well! Glad to see someone else had the same thoughts.

[lilith2013]

@votato, can you explain why you think gibus is newbtown based on this other game? I read some of his posts there and he comes across as .... surprisingly un-newb there.

[gibus]

The game was in RVS prior to #153. I didn't mention brass since he didn't respond to me.

[lilith2013]

I didn't mention brass since he didn't respond to me.

That's fair

The game was in RVS prior to #153.

I disagree, we left RVS around post 100. votes were no longer random and people were forming bandwagons based on suspicions.

[feathers]

What’s Iso? I’ve seen people talk about it several times by now.

[lilith2013]

ISO is short for "Isolation," which refers to looking at only posts made by a single player (or a set of players if you're trying to look at interactions). Here's how to do it:

Scroll to the bottom of the page. Under the Quick Reply box, in the center, should be a dropdown titled "Display posts by user." Currently the dropdown next to this title is set to "All users." You can click this dropdown and select a specific player and then click "Go" to only see this player's posts. If you want to look at posts made by more than one player at the same time, just click the [ + ] sign to the right to add another dropdown and select the other player you want to see. You can do this for as many players as you want, just keep clicking the new [ + ] button to the right each time and selecting the next player you want to add to your view. Then click "Go" and you will see a version of the game thread that only shows posts made by the players you selected.

Alternatively, if you are only looking for one person's posts, you can click on "Activity overview" on the bottom right of the page and then on the page that opens up, under the "Posts" column, click the number that is in the same row as the player whose posts you are trying to see. I think this is easier than the other way if you're on mobile/if you have a hard time clicking into the dropdowns.

[lilith2013]

For example, if I'm trying to look at your ISO, I could go to the "Display posts by user" dropdown and select "feathers" then hit "Go." Or I could click Activity overview, then the "43" under posts that is in the same row as your name.

[lilith2013]

For example, if I'm trying to look at your ISO, I could go to the "Display posts by user" dropdown and select "feathers" then hit "Go." Or I could click Activity overview, then the "43" under

"Posts"

that is in the same row as your name.

ebwop

[votato]

just adding a blank line between paragraphs should do the trick. we are spoiled by modern word processors.

[feathers]

Ohhh, I’ve been going back page by page to dig for one person’s posts all this time. That’s handy.

[lilith2013]

just adding a blank line between paragraphs should do the trick. we are spoiled by modern word processors.

yeah this is fine, I'm just offering bulleted lists if anyone felt the need to be fancy

[iamironcat]

I think there was miscommunication here - I had the same thought as votato which was that you were scumreading everyone in your list of 5 people. instead it just seems that you have organized the list from scummiest to least scummy or vice versa. Are you still suspicious of votato now?

Yep, that was it. I didn't mean to say everyone was scum in that list but rather a terrible sort which i didn't explain and bam.
I think I have to agree with this point here:

I like that votato is not afraid to push against people townreading him easily.

they seem likely town, but i find it interesting how vota and bass are leading the votes. Perhaps we should trust them after all but I'm a paranoid android and I'm not one of trusting when it comes to mafia games.

why can't you believe you're saying this? It seems like you're saying you should be townreading feathers based on his post but you don't want to for some unknown reason. comes off as fencesitty.

I suspected them quite early in the game when we were mostly in RVS mode. But I've seen them posting in a way which makes it looks town. So I'm quite sure of it. I'd come with a more reasonable approach when possible. I'm supposed to be WFH after all ;p

[iamironcat]

I'm unsure of these folks so maybe they're town after all. Reverse list of possible town in order ~
1. Freddie
2. Potato the unidoggo
3. bass
4. feathers
5. kat
6. gibus
7. Lilith

Ofc I could be VERY wrong in this list but derp, just trying to eliminate my suspicion here

Suspicious of lilith because fishyman behave really weird after I suspected her.

[lilith2013]

they seem likely town, but i find it interesting how vota and bass are leading the votes. Perhaps we should trust them after all but I'm a paranoid android and I'm not one of trusting when it comes to mafia games.

Do you think scum would be attempting to establish themselves (or at least one of themselves) as a townleader from the getgo?

why can't you believe you're saying this? It seems like you're saying you should be townreading feathers based on his post but you don't want to for some unknown reason. comes off as fencesitty.

I suspected them quite early in the game when we were mostly in RVS mode. But I've seen them posting in a way which makes it looks town. So I'm quite sure of it. I'd come with a more reasonable approach when possible. I'm supposed to be WFH after all ;p

why did you suspect feathers early on?

[lilith2013]

I'm unsure of these folks so maybe they're town after all. Reverse list of possible town in order ~
1. Freddie
2. Potato the unidoggo
3. bass
4. feathers
5. kat
6. gibus
7. Lilith

Ofc I could be VERY wrong in this list but derp, just trying to eliminate my suspicion here

Suspicious of lilith because fishyman behave really weird after I suspected her.

His progression on me is really weird, like at first he throws a bunch of shade on my slot and then turns around and defends me to you and gibus. I think he may be trying to WK me now.

Where is fish on this list?

[votato]

@votato, can you explain why you think gibus is newbtown based on this other game? I read some of his posts there and he comes across as .... surprisingly un-newb there.

oh i missed this. im not sure if i can, since its ongoing. i agree that he comes off as newbie-er here, so could be playing it up to get brownie points.

i agree that ironcat is being really strange. but some of it is definitely due to language barrier. i also really dislike people who are so formally logical, so it could be a personal bias thing on my end.

[lilith2013]

I think copykat's switch from defending gibus ("scum wouldn't be trying to out masons in this thread") to attacking a "scumslip" feel contrived to me, like he is trying to get on the bandwagon as fast as possible and needs something to attack gibus for. Typically I think scum are more likely to attack something like that so suddenly and aggressively.

VOTE: copykat

I think this is L-2

[lilith2013]

@votato, can you explain why you think gibus is newbtown based on this other game? I read some of his posts there and he comes across as .... surprisingly un-newb there.

oh i missed this. im not sure if i can, since its ongoing. i agree that he comes off as newbie-er here, so could be playing it up to get brownie points.

i agree that ironcat is being really strange. but some of it is definitely due to language barrier. i also really dislike people who are so formally logical, so it could be a personal bias thing on my end.

Ah shit, I didn't realize it was ongoing. my bad, we should not speak of it again.

[lilith2013]

what language barrier are you referring to?