Mini Normal 2141: The World of Tomorrow [Game over!]

[NoPowerOverMe]

thats quicks style. he never explains anything and has random thoughts that dont make any sense.

as someone else said, the important thing is that you thought you did.

Yet he is joining Quick's wagon?

NPOM's posts werent memorable at all. partly its probably the lack of avatar (a condition that will result in a scum-read if it persists), but it also suggests a lack of content or quality shitposting.

Can we lynch votato yet?

Lack of an avatar is not at all scummy.

that makes me think you're scum. but i actually think youre town too

Fence-sitting.

Vote: VP Baltar

this is what i was talking about when i said i was waiting for juicy/tasty posts. atarashi is not off the hook, but VOTE: VP

Town: Quick, votato, Mavs

Lean town: Blair, Nauci

Neutral (because I'm uncertain on my read): Puppy, R2R

Neutral (because there isn't enough to go on): Peter Pan, Gamma, iDany

Lean Scum: NPOM, VP, Atarashi

Seems odd that he knows Quick is known for posts that "don't make any sense" yet he has Quick as town and me as scum.

VOTE: no power over me. That's l-1. Please don't lynch yet.

Why not just not vote if you're so worried about it? You shouldn't put someone at L1 if you're not prepared for someone else to hammer.

[CantHateAPuppy]

Looks like I missed a few pages, catching up now!

Thanks to NPOM for getting an avatar, also I did read a little yesterday and didn't really "get" the r2r case, but i like the people voting for it

[CantHateAPuppy]

Ok, after sleeping on it for a day and catching up... im still liking Blair and Quick as /town core/.

I have some other townreads too, but not as high as those ones, and rince there are a lot of posters who haven't posted too much yet, yeah,. I'm kinda comfy with this for now.

[CantHateAPuppy]

@Nauci: I gotta ask now, why did you include the mod set up post in 221? It was unrelated to the content of your post and wasn’t prompted by one of the previous posts and didn’t appear to be a response to a question. Furthermore, um, the top of that post you quote does in fact say private threads have day talk. It’s right at the top and not buried later down in that post.

Didn't I say right after that post that it was an accident while mobile posting and I don't know why it happened

Something about this exchange just felt off to me, it's such a minor thing but it doesn't feel town v town... What is the line of questioning here: Someone quoted a mod post and i must ask about this? did i miss the scum-quote-modpost meta?

[CantHateAPuppy]

Hey Puppy & Blair, how do you feel about VP B's contributions today? Primarily 517.

517 made me feel better about VP, though i think him and i just don't think the same way. Like, he implies that some earlier argument we had was about bussing, i thought he was low key softing, and i don't really understand this thing about r2r messing up a vote or something like that.

feel like my VP read was kinda null before, maybe it's a little more town now, i'm fine with that at this stage of game

btw why ask me and blair? Not sure how I feel about u tbh, you're the player i want to do an iso on most right now, help convince me that's a waste of time and you're obvtown

[mavsfan41]

@Puppy: Nauci asked if there was day talk. She ALSO quoted the mod back in 221 and at the very top of the post where she quoted, was “private threads have day talk” under the last bullet point of the mod section “tl;dr”

[CantHateAPuppy]

I am not really trying to brag here, but I've discovered my semantic understanding of words is a lot better than most people so I can actually pick up little tiny things about their motivation that they telegraph to you by how they say things. Uhhhhhhhhhh, my verbal IQ is really quite high and I have a ridiculous learning curve given enough time.

Ok, I get that this post is kinda awkward for everyone, but imo it just screams town. Dude isn't frustrated because he's got a big wagon or strong case, not mad because he's been caught out and is flailing, he jus tseems genuinely frustrated because he can't get himself understood. Scum wouldn't care, scum would be happy that the case on him was weak and would have have just kept on keeeping on

I'm not townreading Blair. I have her as null-town. When she was teaming with Atari she seemed scummy but she hasn't been doing that as of recent.

This is strange because Atarashi just hasn't posted recently. If you thought Blair was scum for teaming with Atarashi, and Atarashi goes away, and Blair stops teaming, that makes Bialr null again, right? So what makes Blair null-town?

Can someone explain to me why scum would want to hop off of voting for a player that they know to be town (let's assume Blair is town since so many people are currently reading her as town) and has another player voting for it already, and onto starting a brand new wagon on a lurker? Like, what would the scum motivation be for doing so?

i don't get this, why does scum need a motivation for switching wagons? maybe scum likes one wagon better than another for aesthetic reasons or just wants to change tactics. actually, your question doesn't make sense, because you assume scum knows the first wagon to be town, and then shifts to the lurker... but wouldn't scum also know the alignment of the lurker?

[CantHateAPuppy]

@Puppy: Nauci asked if there was day talk. She ALSO quoted the mod back in 221 and at the very top of the post where she quoted, was “private threads have day talk” under the last bullet point of the mod section “tl;dr”

ok, that's fair, but i guess i still don't get why you asked the question the way you did. what kind of answer would you have expected nauci to give besides 'oops, quoted a post by mistake' and 'lol didn't read mod post my bad'? I get she made a mistake, i get pointing it out, but i don't get what you thought you were asking. Help me out here, when you asked that question, what kind of response were you expecting?

[votato]

VOTE: ready2rock

VOTE: votato

VOTE: Votato

That's a really bad sequence. What changed there nauci? You thought the counterwagon for your buddy was r2r but then you realized it was me so you changed?

And the reason i asked not to hammer is the same reason r2r unvoted. I've seen way to many lolhammers recently. I'm OK with hammering this wagon. I'm not ok with waking up to find that there was a hammer without an opportunity for the defendant to respond

[mavsfan41]

@Puppy: Quoting the mod in that post seemed pretty irrelevant in terms of what Nauci’s content was for that post as I’ve mentioned in 508. Which means I figured Nauci just quoted it to emphasize the mod rules or something to that extent. When she later comes back and asks about day talk despite quoting that post, I was even more confused and wanted to know why of pure curiosity in understanding Nauci’s 221 more. So I guess a “whoopsie me” or a “why I included that random post in that situation was this...” were what I was expecting the answer to be.

[CantHateAPuppy]

Ok, that's fine, i'll call that 'not worth reading' and move on. mav, what's your read on nauci right now?

[Gammagooey]

I might split this up into what posts I'm individually referring to for each part, this game is pretty difficult to parse through and give thoughts on everything at once

On Quick's 624 and 629 (the case on NPOM), what I can get from it is that Quick thinks that NPOM is scum because Quick disagrees with him saying that 3 non-active people voting VPB makes VPB town, NPOM didn't stay on Blair when he thinks he should have given one of his town reads is on the Blair wagon and his previous scum read on Blair.

Quick saying that the non-active people is a lie based on votato posting more and Quick thinking mav is town is just Quick thinking that NPOM should agree with him on votato not being a lurker and mav being town and not actually a reason that NPOM is more likely to be scum than town for it

Quick's opinion on NPOM's Blair read/progression is reasonable for Quick to suspect NPOM for but I don't think it makes NPOM scum, NPOM saying Blair went from scummy while she was talking to Atarashi to null-town more recently is a bit of a jump but the game started on Thursday and I think just not finding anything scummy in Blair's posts for that period of time as a reason to not scum read her anymore for early-game shenanigans makes sense to me.

On this from Blair:

@Blair...

We totally smoked 'em.

Fine, but only because you pinky-promised you'd help us lynch scum even if you are scum!

VOTE: NPOM

The case being decent (and finally coherent) didn't hurt, either. Even if he was null reading me at that point, why move your vote off of a null read on to a random "one of these three is probably scum, I guess this one will do"?

NPOM, you are welcome to commence flailing in abject terror and/or despair. I'm not fussy.

What makes you think that NPOM's vote was a random "one of these three is probably scum, I guess this one will do"?

I went back a few pages from his r2r vote and didn't see something like that, and r2r had posted in between whatever NPOM's last post before the vote was and NPOM's r2r vote. I don't really like that it feels like you're pushing that together to make the case better when as far as I can tell the vote and the 'random 3' likely wasn't why NPOM actually voted r2r.

[mavsfan41]

I think she’s scummy af. Especially after 673. I didn’t want to pursue that now and see what her development was on certain players and wagons and who she went after and who she didn’t.

The whole votato progression of hers is strange and I think she’s buddying Blair too much.

As for 673, she says she’s willing to hammer NPOM for his vote on votato aka she thinks that’s scummy and he’s scum for it. That’s fine, I get that, but NPOM is voting votato. There’s no way votato/NPOM are scum buddies. So she leaves her vote on votato while at the same time willing to hammer NPOM who is definitely NOT also scum with votato. By leaving her vote on votato BUT ALSO willing to hammer NPOM, she’s okay with votato lynch which doesn’t make sense if she think NPOM is scum.

[CantHateAPuppy]

@mav: so i take it then if you have nauci as scum that you have Blair as town. what do you think of npom/votato? you don't think both scum but do you think one is scum? Do you think it's so obvious that they can't both be scum that it's bad for Nauci to not notice this and suspect both?

[mavsfan41]

Votato I lean town. I’m more torn on r2r/NPOM and think it’s likely one of them is scum. If both NPOM and votato are scum together they did one helluva convincing job since the early stages when Atarashi was still around. So I think if you wanted to suspect both, sure, but to suspect them both at the same time the way Nauci did it, no. I don’t really buy that. Thinking votato is scum would be accepting that NPOM is town and vice versa.

I think Blair’s pursuit of Quick was misguided and off a premise that, sure, Quick had two contradictory thoughts of him being mysterious vs him being upfront, but I think that isn’t the greatest reasoning. It’s just Quick being Quick. But she has offered opinions outside of that conflict where I feel scum would naturally just tunnel in that situation and have no real motivation to move off or look towards other players. So sure, town for me rn.

[Gammagooey]

Hey r2r, you didn't respond to this earlier - could you answer it for me?

@ready - What makes you think Blair vs Quick is TvT? I know Puppy mentioned a reason for it earlier but do you agree with what he said or do you have your own for it?

It's partially out of my reads of them being town before they started their back and forth, then when they started their discussion with each other the way they were pushing each other felt genuine on both ends

why were you reading them both as TvT beforehand then?[/quote]

Also I'm liking mav's recent posts, esp. his #687 feels like a genuine thought process from him

[Blair]

What makes you think that NPOM's vote was a random "one of these three is probably scum, I guess this one will do"?

I went back a few pages from his r2r vote and didn't see something like that, and r2r had posted in between whatever NPOM's last post before the vote was and NPOM's r2r vote. I don't really like that it feels like you're pushing that together to make the case better when as far as I can tell the vote and the 'random 3' likely wasn't why NPOM actually voted r2r.

Because that's the only justification he gave at the time (427). It's nice that you think he had some other reason, but he didn't articulate one.

Much later, of course, he put forth that terribad lurk-meta argument and argued that R2R was lurking until the wagon on him and then started posting a lot - but that argument is reliant on the wagon already being there and R2R reacting to it, so I (pretty reasonably, I think) assumed this wasn't NPOM's reasoning at the time of his vote (unless NPOM is a time traveler?)

If NPOM had some secret, unstated reason for voting for R2R at the time, why do you think he withheld it in favor of "One of these three is scum"? And why do you think I should have read his mind and known his reason was something other than what he said it was?

[CantHateAPuppy]

Votato I lean town. I’m more torn on r2r/NPOM and think it’s likely one of them is scum. If both NPOM and votato are scum together they did one helluva convincing job since the early stages when Atarashi was still around. So I think if you wanted to suspect both, sure, but to suspect them both at the same time the way Nauci did it, no. I don’t really buy that.

Thinking votato is scum would be accepting that NPOM is town and vice versa.

I think Blair’s pursuit of Quick was misguided and off a premise that, sure, Quick had two contradictory thoughts of him being mysterious vs him being upfront, but I think that isn’t the greatest reasoning. It’s just Quick being Quick. But she has offered opinions outside of that conflict where I feel scum would naturally just tunnel in that situation and have no real motivation to move off or look towards other players. So sure, town for me rn.

i don't get how r2r fits into this

so u think nauci's progression doesn't make sense because she thinks npom/votato are scum, and there's no way they could both be scum, and this should be obvious to nauci. ok, with u so far

but now you say that votato is lean town, which means by your own logic that NPOM has to be scum, right? (see bolded.) so why are you torn on r2r/NPOM, isn't NPOM already looking scum to you just from votato/NPOM? Your process makes it look like Nauci is scummy for trying to have it both ways, but you look just as uncertain here

[Blair]

This is NPOM's progression on R2R:

NoPowerOverMe
CantLynchAPuppy
Quick
Nauci

VP Baltar
votato

Atarashi
Blair

not enough content: iDannyboy, Gammagooey, ready2rock, mavsfan, PeterPan

There were about five posts of his between the above and the below, but they were all about me, not R2R.

VOTE: ready2rock

Note:

This post was edited to facilitate automated vote counting; the unedited original is quoted below this comment. - Um

vote r2r

Vpb is now a town read.

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

I think some three of the most non active people voting baltar shows that he is town

Are you implying that the quiet people are all scum together, or is there some other logic to your assessment?

I'm saying there is more likely scum on the wagon than not.

There is probably scum on both wagons.

Rtr Danny and Atari if I had to guess at this point.

Gamma, you went back and read this and determined that I missed the real reason for NPOM's R2R vote. Where, exactly, have I overlooked it?

[Gammagooey]

What makes you think that NPOM's vote was a random "one of these three is probably scum, I guess this one will do"?

I went back a few pages from his r2r vote and didn't see something like that, and r2r had posted in between whatever NPOM's last post before the vote was and NPOM's r2r vote. I don't really like that it feels like you're pushing that together to make the case better when as far as I can tell the vote and the 'random 3' likely wasn't why NPOM actually voted r2r.

Because that's the only justification he gave at the time (427). It's nice that you think he had some other reason, but he didn't articulate one.

Much later, of course, he put forth that terribad lurk-meta argument and argued that R2R was lurking until the wagon on him and then started posting a lot - but that argument is reliant on the wagon already being there and R2R reacting to it, so I (pretty reasonably, I think) assumed this wasn't NPOM's reasoning at the time of his vote (unless NPOM is a time traveler?)

If NPOM had some secret, unstated reason for voting for R2R at the time, why do you think he withheld it in favor of "One of these three is scum"? And why do you think I should have read his mind and known his reason was something other than what he said it was?

Oh - I got the timing confused on his 427, I thought that was before his vote on r2r instead of after. I still think it makes more sense that he'd be voting r2r for the two posts r2r made literally right before NPOM voted him (#403 and #409 from r2r, #413 from NPOM) but given that he didn't elaborate on it at the time it makes a lot more sense that you'd assume it was based on what he said in 427 instead of what came right before it so my not liking your post on that was dumb.

[Blair]

I still think it makes more sense that he'd be voting r2r for the two posts r2r made literally right before NPOM voted him (#403 and #409

I mean... in 403 he said he was considering voting for VP and in 409 he did vote for VP.

Which brings us right back to, "One of the three people voting for VP is scum," so that kind of feels like a distinction without a difference?

[mavsfan41]

@Puppy: I think votato is town. That doesn’t necessarily make NPOM scum. It just means they’re not scum together. They could be town together. r2r I also don’t see being scum with NPOM unless you think 413 is a bus which I don’t believe is the case. There’s no reason to bus this early with no pressure (sure bus for WIFOM reasons, but is that where you want to take this conversation?), so when it comes to votato/NPOM, I don’t consider NPOM scum here and would replace him with r2r who, imo, looks scummier.

Now based on voting patterns, it’s possibly votato/r2r is a scum pairing but I don’t think this is the case cause I TR votato meaning in this I’d say NPOM is scum over the votato/r2r pairing. It’s possible that they’re both (NPOM/r2r) town, but I don’t think there’s 2 scum here. Votato could be voting along with scum!r2r as r2r jumped on after votato which would be more r2r is voting with votato than votato voting with r2r. Now my issue for Nauci wouldn’t be scum reading either side of this, it would be voting votato. She had previously voted r2r then switched to votato in subsequent posts. Why? Not sure, but at the time r2r had the biggest vote count and she didn’t want to appear she was jumping onto a wagon.

[Gammagooey]

I still think it makes more sense that he'd be voting r2r for the two posts r2r made literally right before NPOM voted him (#403 and #409

I mean... in 403 he said he was considering voting for VP and in 409 he did vote for VP.

Which brings us right back to, "One of the three people voting for VP is scum," so that kind of feels like a distinction without a difference?

There is more in there than just the VP stuff - there's something else in there that I particularly didn't like but let's just do this instead of having me assume it

@NPOM - Can you clarify if your initial vote on r2r was mostly for lurking and his VPB vote or something else?

[Blair]

After he voted for R2R, Quick voted for NPOM and said "his reads make no sense!"

NPOM responded to that, first sarcastically, then seriously with 427. You think he had a different reason than the one given in 427 but he withheld it until now?

I'm all for pressing more information out of NPOM but there is pretty much zero chance that if he produces a new reason 250 posts later anyone is going to believe it.

I'm sure you realize by now that I'm reading this as bus-avoidance.

[Umlaut]

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