Mini 644 - Meerkat Manor Mafia (Game Over!)

[StrangerCoug]

Wow. I missed the whole second page. The question here is who is trying to be the VoA with all this experience talk.

What's VoA?

[Cass]

I do not think a third vote indicates scum. Especially as you put the first vote on yourself.

This is not true. I put the second, not the first, vote on myself.

Still, you can hardly count his as the third vote. You could unvote yourself any time. Besides, three votes isn't any danger with twelve players, so I do not find that at all scummy.

[StrangerCoug]

Still, you can hardly count his as the third vote. You could unvote yourself any time. Besides, three votes isn't any danger with twelve players, so I do not find that at all scummy.

It's nothing major, but I don't like one person having ¼ of the votes until after random stage ends, which is why I brought it to the town's attention.

Unvote: MafiaMann
Vote: Cass

because I find making a big deal about a self-vote in the random voting stage to be a rather weak case.

[Rhinox]

Vote: Cass because I find making a big deal about a self-vote in the random voting stage to be a rather weak case.

About as weak of a case as making a big deal about someone making a big deal about a self vote don't you say?

Regardless, Cass is right. Not only can you not count that as the third vote, thats still is only L-4 - as in you still didn't have half the votes required for lynch.

Why do you seem so worried about a third vote, especially when 1 was your own and you could presumedly remove it before you got anywhere near being lynched?

Also Ecto, Cass already made that joke :p

[Ectomancer]

@Rhinox - I saw that Like I said, I missed the 2nd page

@StrangerCoug - VoA - Voice of Authority, playing off of Appeal to Authority. I was giving muffinhead crap for thinking he had the most experience on site (as if that mattered) and was seeming to try to enhance his status by pointing it out (which turns out to be wrong by a long shot)

That's a good enough reason to

fos muffinhead

Also @StrangerCoug - why on earth would you want people to start jumping off of wagons before it produces any kind of results? What do you think wagons are for? Especially in the random stage? If you dont have anything to go on, you just grab someone out of the crowd by the neck and say "start talking or Im gonna smash you!", enough people gather around and says 'Yeah!" and they start talking. If you like what they say, you let'em go, if you don't, you throw'em against the fence with some other suspects that you get roughly the same way, then lynch one of them.

Just because you grabbed yourself around the neck doesn't mean you weren't a good choice. I saw that trick in Blazing Saddles. The Sheriff was gonna get lynched until he grabbed himself by his own collar, put his own gun to his head and threatened to blow his own head off if everyone didn't back off. Well, the town backed off and the Sheriff didn't get lynched.
That's basically what you did isn't it StrangerCoug? The town always seems to let the self-voter go. Not me. I think you belong against the fence whilst we figure out who gets the rope today.

vote StrangerCoug

[Rhinox]

The town always seems to let the self-voter go.

Thats because from a win condition POV, self-voting is going against your win condition if you're scum. However, its also a counter-productive "method" if you're town because it focuses the discussion on yourself (presumedly you know yourself that your town), rather than legitimate scumhunting. I.E. right now, a number of people are FoS-ing or Voting because Coug self-voted. If he is town, he brought it on himself and is distracting us from actually finding scum. If he's scum, he's using the "Why would I vote for myself if I were scum WIFOM". I don't buy the "it sparks discussion" because the discussion is always about the person who self-voted, and it nullifies any suspisions based on people jumping on the self-voters bandwagon. Without the self vote, maybe we could have caught a scum jumping on or pushing a

real

bandwagon, rather than a fabricated one.

Summary: If you're scum, its a WIFOM. If your town, there is absolutely nothing about self-voting that is pro-town.

unvote, vote: strangercoug

...

...because ecto's previous post was the best explanation I've ever seen for why a random stage self-voter needs to be pressured.

[Rishi]

Vote Count

StrangerCoug – 4 (MafiaMann, Cass, Ectomancer, Rhinox)
MafiaMann – 3 (curiouskarmadog, muffinhead, wolframnhart)
curiouskarmadog – 1 (Clockwork Ruse)
Cass – 1 (StrangerCoug)

Not voting: ace1217, jonathantan86, Bogre

With 12 alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch.

[Cass]

For the record: I'm pretty neutral about the self-vote. Not a fan of it, but meh. The reason I voted SC is that he said the 3rd vote is scummy, I disagree, so I put a third vote on him again. To see what would happen. I quite like this bandwagon though, seems the game has started at least

[ClockworkRuse]

vote:strangecougar

Happy

No, I am not. What made you feel that it was acceptable to put Coug at L-4 on page two?

FoS on you

unvote

I think strangers vote on himself was takin out of context. Had it been later in the game, I would find it weird (especially if he was one of those stupid people that hammer themselves) but it was during random voting stage and it was probably just bad humor.

Vote mafiamann

for originally saying he would vote clock, then once muffinhead says "not voting in rv stage can be a scumtell" you vote strangercoug instead with no real reason (jokewise or serious) other then to apparently make muffin "happy"

And this is enough to put Mafiamann at L-3 on the second page?

FoS for you

Unvote

Arbitrary voting stage is over now.


I'm going to take a wild guess that the scum is on one of these wagons. I see no reason that anyone should be at L-4 or L-3 yet at all. We've barely started discussion and already someone is close to being lynched if any votes change.

The town always seems to let the self-voter go.

Thats because from a win condition POV, self-voting is going against your win condition if you're scum. However, its also a counter-productive "method" if you're town because it focuses the discussion on yourself (presumedly you know yourself that your town), rather than legitimate scumhunting. I.E. right now, a number of people are FoS-ing or Voting because Coug self-voted. If he is town, he brought it on himself and is distracting us from actually finding scum. If he's scum, he's using the "Why would I vote for myself if I were scum WIFOM". I don't buy the "it sparks discussion" because the discussion is always about the person who self-voted, and it nullifies any suspisions based on people jumping on the self-voters bandwagon. Without the self vote, maybe we could have caught a scum jumping on or pushing a

real

bandwagon, rather than a fabricated one.

Summary: If you're scum, its a WIFOM. If your town, there is absolutely nothing about self-voting that is pro-town.

unvote, vote: strangercoug

...

...because ecto's previous post was the best explanation I've ever seen for why a random stage self-voter needs to be pressured.

I disagree, you can gauge quite a bit by a self vote in the random stage. Reactions for starters. I feel really uncomfortable about this wagon for the simple fact that it snowballed way to fast, it hasn't even been a full page in the making honestly. That said;

I do not think a third vote indicates scum. Especially as you put the first vote on yourself.

This is not true. I put the second, not the first, vote on myself.

Does not help his case at all. This offers nothing to the town other than us knowing that he is here.


That said, I am going to give a

FoS

to Coug for unhelpful posts after his self-vote and vote jumping.


@Mafia, Why did you vote Coug if you said you would vote me?

[MafiaMann]

Unvote

The strangecougar bandwagon took off to fast with to little substance to not be scum driven.

[ClockworkRuse]

Unvote

The strangecougar bandwagon took off to fast with to little substance to not be scum driven.

You realize of course that you were on this wagon. Please answer my question in my last post. What was your justification for voting Coug?

[MafiaMann]

it was arandom vote i didnt mean to make a wagon

[ClockworkRuse]

it was arandom vote i didnt mean to make a wagon

You didn't make a wagon, you jumped onto one.

You said that if you had to make a random vote that you would vote me, then when asked why you didn't vote but rather said who you would vote for you voted Coug instead to appease whoever was asking you why you were voting.

That is what I am asking you to explain. Why Coug instead of me when you said that if you had to vote you would vote me?

[MafiaMann]

it was arandom vote i didnt mean to make a wagon

You didn't make a wagon, you jumped onto one.

You said that if you had to make a random vote that you would vote me, then when asked why you didn't vote but rather said who you would vote for you voted Coug instead to appease whoever was asking you why you were voting.

That is what I am asking you to explain. Why Coug instead of me when you said that if you had to vote you would vote me?

I couldnt speel your name

[curiouskarmadog]

unvote

, game has moved on...

[curiouskarmadog]

What made you feel that it was acceptable to put Coug at L-4 on page two?

And this is enough to put Mafiamann at L-3 on the second page?

FoS for you

these are ridiculous questions, that are designed to make you look more townie. Actually what does it matter if someone is at -3 or -4 on page two? Information is being gathered..pressure is being put forth...how else do you find out information?...

vote clock...

[Bogre]

Hello everyone, it seems like im the most experienced player here. Therefore I researve the right to call my self an IC lol. If you want call me muf for short.

Not true. - Rishi

It seems i havnt played with anyone here except coug so I cant really judge anyone by personality. I hope to get along with everyone here and hopfully no one will take this game personally.

Now as for the game

vote mafiamann

, because not voting in the rv stage can be a scumtell. Therefore this is no random vote.

VOTE: muffinhead

Here's our first scum.

First of all, starting off with the most experienced player joke thing seems like a bit of smoke blowing. Then he says he can't meta anyone...I don't know why he would say that. I hope to get along with everyone here...well I hope to not get along with the scum and kill them.

The scumtell is also crap.

[StrangerCoug]

Also @StrangerCoug - why on earth would you want people to start jumping off of wagons before it produces any kind of results? What do you think wagons are for? Especially in the random stage? If you dont have anything to go on, you just grab someone out of the crowd by the neck and say "start talking or Im gonna smash you!", enough people gather around and says 'Yeah!" and they start talking. If you like what they say, you let'em go, if you don't, you throw'em against the fence with some other suspects that you get roughly the same way, then lynch one of them.

Information, but so was the self-vote. In the random voting stage, you can get away with voting for the lamest reason ever—or even no reason. Voting myself and HoS'ing everybody in random voting was for an admittedly very lame reason: "because I can", and that's just about why I really did it.

Just because you grabbed yourself around the neck doesn't mean you weren't a good choice. I saw that trick in Blazing Saddles. The Sheriff was gonna get lynched until he grabbed himself by his own collar, put his own gun to his head and threatened to blow his own head off if everyone didn't back off. Well, the town backed off and the Sheriff didn't get lynched.
That's basically what you did isn't it StrangerCoug? The town always seems to let the self-voter go. Not me. I think you belong against the fence whilst we figure out who gets the rope today.

vote StrangerCoug

I do not understand how this part of your post applies in the context of this situation. First off, unless you have a bunch of mindless players, the random voting stage isn't going to get anybody killed, which is why I panicked at the third random vote on me (I count myself because a vote is a vote). Second, my self-vote wasn't serious and I had the intent to remove it eventually, as in the long run it's not of any help. Third (and this is actually an extension of "second", but whatever), I don't remember making a post in this game where I really meant to get myself killed if people didn't get off my wagon.

FoS: Ectomancer

unvote, vote: strangercoug

...

...because ecto's previous post was the best explanation I've ever seen for why a random stage self-voter needs to be pressured.

This is awfully opportunistic for putting me at lynch -3, don't you think?

Unvote: Cass
Vote: Rhinox

[Bogre]

Also, I agree with CKD's captain wisdom comment lol.

Also,

FOS Rhinox

For jumping on a dumb wagon, being opportunistic.

Lynch them both. Notice they haven't said anything about each other yet.

[jonathantan86]

I do not understand how this part of your post applies in the context of this situation. First off, unless you have a bunch of mindless players, the random voting stage isn't going to get anybody killed, which is why I panicked at the third random vote on me (I count myself because a vote is a vote). Second, my self-vote wasn't serious and I had the intent to remove it eventually, as in the long run it's not of any help. Third (and this is actually an extension of "second", but whatever), I don't remember making a post in this game where I really meant to get myself killed if people didn't get off my wagon.

If the random voting stage isn't going to get anyone killed, why do you panic at the third vote? Especially since we need 7 votes to lynch. You could just remove your self-vote andthe count would go down to two.

Besides I don't think that we would lynch someone without discussion. Town wouldn't put the vote count so close to 7, and scum (supposing SC is town) wouldn't want to do that either because it may make them look scummy.

FOS: StrangerCoug

Having said that, I think some mafia are on the wagon. Not because they want to see SC lynched, but because it may make them look good if SC dies and turns out to be part of the mafia.

[StrangerCoug]

If the random voting stage isn't going to get anyone killed, why do you panic at the third vote?

How many damn times do I have to say that I don't like the idea of anybody having ¼ of the votes in RV?

[StrangerCoug]

EBWOP: Sorry about the messed-up tags. It's supposed to be a single quote without another quote inside it, by jonathantan86.

[muffinhead]

Ok first up nice frequent posting.

Now to clear things up I by no means was playing for VoA. Just looking down the players list seeing the majority of people joined up after me which is somthing Im not used to.

vote mafiamann , because not voting in the rv stage can be a scumtell. Therefore this is no random vote.

FoS: mafiamann
FoS: StrangerCoug
FoS: muffinhead

If not voting in the random stage can be a scumtell, then so can self-voting. Both are equally useless for the town. muffinhead also gets an FoS because he only adressed the no-voting and not the self-voting. He either has a different view of self voting than me, or he

could

be scumbuddies with Coug.

Well the coug case was already mentioned therefore I felt unecessary to add to it. Thats why I brought it up and since rvs dont o much impact, the aim of it was to see how he would respond.

The scumtell is also crap.

Can you explain this more?

More to come later

[muffinhead]

vote:strangecougar

Happy

No, I am not. What made you feel that it was acceptable to put Coug at L-4 on page two?

FoS on you

unvote

I think strangers vote on himself was takin out of context. Had it been later in the game, I would find it weird (especially if he was one of those stupid people that hammer themselves) but it was during random voting stage and it was probably just bad humor.

Vote mafiamann

for originally saying he would vote clock, then once muffinhead says "not voting in rv stage can be a scumtell" you vote strangercoug instead with no real reason (jokewise or serious) other then to apparently make muffin "happy"

And this is enough to put Mafiamann at L-3 on the second page?

FoS for you

Unvote

Arbitrary voting stage is over now.


I'm going to take a wild guess that the scum is on one of these wagons. I see no reason that anyone should be at L-4 or L-3 yet at all. We've barely started discussion and already someone is close to being lynched if any votes change.

The town always seems to let the self-voter go.

Thats because from a win condition POV, self-voting is going against your win condition if you're scum. However, its also a counter-productive "method" if you're town because it focuses the discussion on yourself (presumedly you know yourself that your town), rather than legitimate scumhunting. I.E. right now, a number of people are FoS-ing or Voting because Coug self-voted. If he is town, he brought it on himself and is distracting us from actually finding scum. If he's scum, he's using the "Why would I vote for myself if I were scum WIFOM". I don't buy the "it sparks discussion" because the discussion is always about the person who self-voted, and it nullifies any suspisions based on people jumping on the self-voters bandwagon. Without the self vote, maybe we could have caught a scum jumping on or pushing a

real

bandwagon, rather than a fabricated one.

Summary: If you're scum, its a WIFOM. If your town, there is absolutely nothing about self-voting that is pro-town.

unvote, vote: strangercoug

...

...because ecto's previous post was the best explanation I've ever seen for why a random stage self-voter needs to be pressured.

I disagree, you can gauge quite a bit by a self vote in the random stage. Reactions for starters. I feel really uncomfortable about this wagon for the simple fact that it snowballed way to fast, it hasn't even been a full page in the making honestly. That said;

I do not think a third vote indicates scum. Especially as you put the first vote on yourself.

This is not true. I put the second, not the first, vote on myself.

Does not help his case at all. This offers nothing to the town other than us knowing that he is here.


That said, I am going to give a

FoS

to Coug for unhelpful posts after his self-vote and vote jumping.


@Mafia, Why did you vote Coug if you said you would vote me?

I dont like this post. What have you got against people being at L-3 and L-4? its not as if there in a dangerous position. I really doubt scum would be dumb enough to put more votes on coug or mafiamann for the sack of trying to lycnh them. Cause then it outs them as scum tomorrow. You seem way to concerned.
Thats why I will

unvote, vote clock

I also dont like the fact that coug is voting for people because they voted for him.

Still dont like mafiamann either, hasnt made an improvement in my books.

[Ectomancer]

StrangerCoug deserves votes piled on him for that self-vote. It's not helpful and this pressure might make him think twice before doing it again. He's not going to get quicklynched by town, and if scum piles on, Huzzah! We got one or two for tomorrow...
I still say we string him up. Somebody's gotta die today, we might as well do the volunteer