Mini Normal 2149 | Philosophers | Over

[Blair]

Stop lying about me saying I wanted to consolidate wagons to include osuka. I have been townreading osuka all along and never once said I wanted osuka in the lynchpool. I have said the opposite repeatedly. You are being deliberately obtuse because you think this will somehow get your case off life-support.

Please be advised we are wagoning CSF, NDMath, and Osuka.

If osuka is scum we should lynch him tomorrow, I enjoy his posts.

You were saying?

Literally the only one of those quotes that could be misconstrued as me asking for osuka to be in the lynchpool is the second one - AND IT ONLY LOOKS THAT WAY BECAUSE YOU RIPPED OUT THE SURROUNDING SENTENCES:

Please be advised we are wagoning CSF, NDMath, and Osuka.

The Osuka wagon kind of feels like it came out of nowhere to become a front runner to me.

That's me, right there in the post you just misrepresented, expressing confusion at why osuka is in the running at all.

Get your head out of the sand, Quick, your deep-tunneling.

[LicketyQuickety]

kind of feels

You're basically saying that you hard defended osuka by saying "kind of"???

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Those of you who are scum, good job getting my wagon to this point

Those of you who are town, please get in your head that you evidently can’t read me

Why should we townread you

[Blair]

kind of feels

You're basically saying that you hard defended osuka by saying "kind of"???

The "So you're saying" tell for cognitive dissonance.

No, I'm saying I have been calling osuka town all day, lightly referenced it in that post you ripped out of context, and continued saying it afterward - and you're deliberately attempting (poorly) to mislead the thread into believing I flip-flopped on osuka when I've been calling him town every single time I'm asked (and several times when I wasn't) consistently since I subbed in.

[GuiltyLion]

Blair I'm less interested in the discussion around what your osuka read is and when it was expressed, I see your point that Quick is misrepping/misunderstanding you and you're right that you've consistently been against an osuka lynch.

What I want to know in greater detail is

why

. What specifically from osuka is pointing you to the conclusion that he's not scum here? From what I gather from your posts, it seems to be largely a gamestate thing - you don't like the people voting him and you're skeptical that the leading wagon is on scum right now. I see the value in putting some stock into game state based reasoning, but I really don't think anything in osuka's ISO indicates town and I want to know if you have good reasons based on his own play for thinking he's a bad lynch.

[GuiltyLion]

posted a pretty awkward about-face where he declared NDMath was probably town based on... something pretty dubious, and then doubled down on osuka. I don't buy his progression on NDMath

I'd also like to talk more about this. I don't feel I have a good sense of your own read on NDMath, especially not from your response when I asked you about my motives or from how you talk about NDMath in this post here. I've said before, I mostly townread him for 986, that is a post I find very difficult to imagine coming from scum.

You call that dubious - why? What's the explanation for scum!NDMath bringing up a recently completed scum game and saying it looks similar to his play here? I can't convince myself that scum!him wouldn't at all be self-conscious about that, I can't believe he honestly thought it would look good on him if he's scum in both games. This is the reason for my dramatic swing, it's a post that I just don't see coming from scum.

would you be comfortable with an NDMath lynch today? If not, why are you attributing scum motivation to me ultimately deciding the same? I get that it's because I was "shading" a slot that I wasn't voting (I still think the key distinction is that I was pressuring, not shading), but if we can at least agree on an NDMath townread that might help me see your PoV a little better.

[Truth]

Should we hammer osuka now? I would like to get to the next day.

Reminder for doctors to protect me please!

[Blair]

Blair I'm less interested in the discussion around what your osuka read is and when it was expressed, I see your point that Quick is misrepping/misunderstanding you and you're right that you've consistently been against an osuka lynch.

What I want to know in greater detail is

why

. What specifically from osuka is pointing you to the conclusion that he's not scum here? From what I gather from your posts, it seems to be largely a gamestate thing - you don't like the people voting him and you're skeptical that the leading wagon is on scum right now. I see the value in putting some stock into game state based reasoning, but I really don't think anything in osuka's ISO indicates town and I want to know if you have good reasons based on his own play for thinking he's a bad lynch.

Partly gamestate, as you've said. (The wagon spooled up too easily, in my opinion)

Partly his behavior. As I said earlier, he keeps allowing himself to get baited into pointless slapfights with poor optics. Scum know the optics are bad, and are more likely to take the "high road" and try to give the benefit of the doubt - townies don't care about the optics (because they know they're town and that anyone scumreading them for this is just wrong) and are more tempted to dive headlong into calling stupid posts... well... stupid.

[Deimos27]

Official Vote Count 1.14

Simon Blackburn (1944-) is an English philosopher known for his work in metaethics, where he defends quasi-realism. Quasi-realism is a form of non-cognitivism, which claims that moral statements aren't propositions and hence have no truth value.

---

Lynching

With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to lynch.

osuka

(6): GuiltyLion, Cat Scratch Fever, NorwegianboyEE, Truth, Nauci, LicketyQuickety

Cat Scratch Fever

(3): popopopopopopo, Glitch, osuka

GuiltyLion

(2): Looker, Blair

NDMath

(1): mavsfan41

Glitch

(1): NDMath

Not Voting

(0):

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-07-01 18:16:10).

Mod notes:

• 

[/area]

[Blair]

Should we hammer osuka now? I would like to get to the next day.

Reminder for doctors to protect me please!

*shotguns entire liquor cabinet*

[NorwegianboyEE]

Partly his behavior. As I said earlier, he keeps allowing himself to get baited into pointless slapfights with poor optics.

Sure, here's another way to look at it. He's done basically nothing except argue about pointless shit to look like he's doing something. Sounds like scum play to me.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The towncase on Osuka seems to boil down to: "He's too scummy to be scum". And i'd rather just PoE those slots early than let their shenanigans continue.

[NorwegianboyEE]

The only noteworthy read of Osuka right now is CSF!Scum. And he's basically done nothing to convince us of it other than say "he be playing scummy". And saying scum is on his wagon. (no indication of who though)

[NorwegianboyEE]

More points towards Osuka!scum: His main scumread right now is the main counterwagon on him, which seems opportunistic considering his lack of substance in outlining his scumreads. And his vibe right now feels very much like caught scum that's just giving up.

[Blair]

posted a pretty awkward about-face where he declared NDMath was probably town based on... something pretty dubious, and then doubled down on osuka. I don't buy his progression on NDMath

I'd also like to talk more about this. I don't feel I have a good sense of your own read on NDMath, especially not from your response when I asked you about my motives or from how you talk about NDMath in this post here. I've said before, I mostly townread him for 986, that is a post I find very difficult to imagine coming from scum.

You call that dubious - why? What's the explanation for scum!NDMath bringing up a recently completed scum game and saying it looks similar to his play here? I can't convince myself that scum!him wouldn't at all be self-conscious about that, I can't believe he honestly thought it would look good on him if he's scum in both games. This is the reason for my dramatic swing, it's a post that I just don't see coming from scum.

would you be comfortable with an NDMath lynch today? If not, why are you attributing scum motivation to me ultimately deciding the same? I get that it's because I was "shading" a slot that I wasn't voting (I still think the key distinction is that I was pressuring, not shading), but if we can at least agree on an NDMath townread that might help me see your PoV a little better.

I called it dubious because you're saying you can't imagine scum making that post - is it really that hard, though?

If NDMath is self-conscious scum and he's just completed a scum game where he played similarly (bear in mind player-meta has been brought up in this game repeatedly), he may be trying to pre-empt what he felt was an incoming meta-case.

Do I believe that is definitely what happened? No. NDMath is a hard null for me, largely because of that very post - because I can easily see it coming from town or scum. I called your usage of that post to justify a read-flip on him "dubious" because, to me, it was. Because nothing about that post seems alignment-exclusive to me, but it seemed alignment-exclusive enough to you for you to completely flip your read on him.

[Blair]

More points towards Osuka!scum: His main scumread right now is the main counterwagon on him, which seems opportunistic considering his lack of substance in outlining his scumreads. And his vibe right now feels very much like caught scum that's just giving up.

Could be.

Could also be town who's given up. That would fit pretty well with the whole "I'm surrounded by idiots" mood. (Which could also be an act, of course)

[LicketyQuickety]

That would fit pretty well with the whole "I'm surrounded by idiots" mood. (Which could also be an act, of course)

That's not how I am reading it. I am reading it as he gave up after I made a good point about how he is Scum.

[Blair]

Which post of yours, specifically, do you believe would have caused scum!osuka to give up?

[LicketyQuickety]

Which post of yours, specifically, do you believe would have caused scum!osuka to give up?

No. I'm saying his stance on me doesn't seem like he actually SRs me. He MIGHT be doing this for personal reasons. I won't rule that out. But I just don't think he thinks I am Scum here. I think he might have gotten upset that I said he wasn't doing anything and took it out on me if he's Town here, but ultimately, he just doesn't actually BELIEVE that I am Scum. That's what I have a problem with.

please let me know whenever youre done reading my fucking mind

Personally, I don't think he is deranged enough to self harm himself because I generally see him more as a sadist than a masochist, which leans me in the direction that he is Scum.

this is the first accurate statement youve made about me in this thread so far

[Blair]

... He gave up because you called him a sadist?

[LicketyQuickety]

... He gave up because you called him a sadist?

What doesn't make sense for you? His reaction is pretty demotivating from his perspective given his content after that. I don't see a clearer thing that shows the drop in him not caring.

[NorwegianboyEE]

... He gave up because you called him a sadist?

What doesn't make sense for you? His reaction is pretty demotivating from his perspective given his content after that. I don't see a clearer thing that shows the drop in him not caring.

Or how about the fact that a lot of players are calling him scum? Pretty much the only one openly defending him right now has been Blair.

[Blair]

You seem to think your observation that he is more sadist than masochist so shook him to his very core that he couldn't bear to fully participate in this game thread any longer.

I mean come on. Nothing about this game is that deep.

[LicketyQuickety]

how the fuck is mafia supposed to know you're mason? mafia has no setup knowledge other than their own roles

you seem to gravely misunderstand some very core concepts of this game

If he is in fact a mason, it's pretty natural to assume that mafia would know he's town and therefore likely not lying about being a

mason

of all things

I still like the Osuka vote, none of his latest bursts of post felt all that town and this one was really bad shade-for-sake-of-shade

Do you think osuka could be making sure I'm actually a mason and not lying in that post? Like he's mafia and wants to kill me if I'm a mason but wants to keep questioning me just to make sure. I think this another reason to think he is mafia.

This is such a dense post that it hurts

I think hypotheticals are a little too much for you to handle right now, so for the first part of the post assume I’m town and for the second, assume I’m scum.

Let’s start with town. How am I lying in that post? What am I trying to accomplish? Why am I doing any of what I’m doing in that post?

Now, assume I’m scum. How am I not lying in that post? If I wanted to kill you, why wouldn’t I just do it since you keep claiming mason anyway? If I

did

want to make sure you’re mason, how is that post supposed to accomplish that? Why would I “keep questioning to make sure” when I know for a fact that that line of questioning has diminishing returns (i.e., we’re all as sure as we’re gonna be about your claim, however sure that is, until someone else claims mason or we get a revealing flip, neither of which is going to happen d1) and I’d only be exposing myself for no reason?

You seem to have a very shallow understanding or how scum plays the game

This is the first effort post osuka puts in after the point I called him out based on my psychoanalysis read and this is actually a pretty good point. He's also said other things that I think lean in the direction I think he's Town since doing a bit of an ISO so I'm going back to Blair, but I could go to Truth as an alternative since I am really starting to doubt the validity of a miller mason, which Blair doesn't actually make any comments on.

VOTE: Blair

[Blair]

*flails*