Newbie 2019 | Game Over!

[ItalianoVD]

The problem I see with having post based reads is that they are not alignment indicative so it’s not a real solid way to read players.

[ItalianoVD]

Either I’m missing something in your argument, or you’re missing something in mine. Everyone is either town or scum. I provided a reason why he would do it as town and a reason why he would do it as scum. I could do that for basically any action that anyone carried out. My approach is to analyze what players do.

It is to understand what they would do in certain situations and why they would do what they have already done.

I get your analysis, but you have no idea what certain players would do in a given situation. Sure you can speculate, but that’s all it is, speculation.

[ItalianoVD]

"Because I’m already aware of the reasons why he would do this." sounds like extra info or something to me, which would only be available to scum. So you're saying that he's either town or scum in your defense, which is what everyone is (could be town or scum). This brings us back to the starting point, yet your words suggest that you already "know" something...

Either I’m missing something in your argument, or you’re missing something in mine. Everyone is either town or scum. I provided a reason why he would do it as town and a reason why he would do it as scum. I could do that for basically any action that anyone carried out. My approach is to analyze what players do. It is to understand what they would do in certain situations and why they would do what they have already done.

I actually missed this. I like Shelly’s rebuttal here 106, it’s pretty easy to understand. Comparably you’re response in 109 is kind of weak. Several players have called you out on your wording and I can’t say I’ve liked your responses up to this point.

[MiniMegabyte]

I’m a little lost wit where this conversation has gone lol

[ItalianoVD]

I’m not really feeling any of these posts:

i just spent an entire post defending your not being here for the last five hours and you vote me

i feel betrayed

So defending players is alignment indicative? Town alignment? Your wording makes you sound kinda town, but I don’t know, I don’t like the framing here.

I too find that odd. In what seems to be the RVS, voting for someone who protected you doesn’t seem right. Probably not much to base a read off of though.

You find it odd, then say it doesn’t seem right, but then say it’s not much to base a read off of. So then why’d you even mention it?

I do not think that Tbones vote is a serious one, most of what he has said seems in jest

Agreed. T-Bone can’t really be called a lurker yet. I suggest that the people who voted for T-Bone should unvote.

Again, you found it odd and said it didn’t seem right. But here you say you agree that it was in jest. You’re confusing me man.

[ItalianoVD]

The problem I see with having post based reads is that they are not alignment indicative so it’s not a real solid way to read players.

Want to clarify: ...unless you know how that player’s tells and see through it...

[shellyc]

@ItalianoVD: So post based reads are the main thing we've got (there is vote analysis). In my opinion defending players can be of either alignment, though it often happens unconsciously as scum.

For post 75, I think that's contradictory. "not base a read off", "I too find that odd" AND "doesn't seem right" is pretty much going round a circle, and it's not advancing anything at all.

For post 78 I don't see the contradiction though, he agreed that it was in jest and told people to unvote.

[Redados]

I did not want to be on a wagon early in the day with no information. I stand by that. We "all know that". We have more information. I'm keeping a vote on T-Bone for now. I don't have any scumreads yet, so I'll keep a vote on the only person who hasn't posted. I have been informed by Porkens that 2 votes isn't close to day-ending and promotes discussion, so I don't feel too bad keeping a second vote on T-Bone.

TBone is a wagon yet you chose to keep your vote on him. What’s the difference?

T-Bone not a wagon, he only had two votes.

20

I would not want the day to end so early! We have ten whole days of discussion where we can gather more information

2 votes isn’t close to day ending, and pressure promotes discussion.

Since I went to sleep, more posting has happened. UNVOTE: T-Bone. I will catch up and then post more reads that we have more information now.

[Redados]

The only thing that I have seen Porkens do is openly investigate other players and controlling the conversation. Could it be that he is directing attention away from himself by controlling the topic instead of just observing?

It would be nice to see Porkens create content that is not just investigating and pushing. However, investigating and pushing is

good

, that is how we find information and contradictions, and that leads to finding scum.

[Redados]

Some reads:

N0bleNoob - Trying to push people to gain information. Has pushed Porkens about pushing, but funnily enough is also doing a lot of pushing. Pushing is good because it’s how we find information.

GeniusGamer - Originally, his posts don’t have a lot of content. He was making light observations but not really saying anything or pushing anyone. He is talking more now, but he is clearly still finding his footing. I’m getting serious “new player” vibes.

Porkens - Still doing a lot of pushing and being aggressive. This feels like a viable day one strategy to get more information out in the open.

[GeniusGamer]

I suspect it’s the

other

interpretation.

Why are you answering questions directed at other players?

Guess I can ask you the same question.

Huh. Now that it’s been pointed out, I find that quite suspicious.

[GeniusGamer]

For post 75, I think that's contradictory. "not base a read off", "I too find that odd" AND "doesn't seem right" is pretty much going round a circle, and it's not advancing anything at all.

I pointed out an oddity. I meant that it’s not enough to base a read of off

by itself

. With more information building on top of what I already have. I could come to a better conclusion.

[Porkens]

I suspect it’s the

other

interpretation.

Why are you answering questions directed at other players?

Guess I can ask you the same question.

Huh. Now that it’s been pointed out, I find that quite suspicious.

What question was I supposedly answering?

[MiniMegabyte]

Sorry guys I’ve been a bit busy tonight and am off to sleep will check in tomorrow morning

[GeniusGamer]

They would be the third vote and according to guides the third voter is likely to be a mafia pushing a mislynch. I'd reread their posts and probably change my vote to them.

I don’t think I’m understanding this. The way I interpret this, you’re saying that if someone has three votes, the third person is likely to be mafia. This... doesn’t make sense to me. Please elaborate.

I suspect it’s the

other

interpretation.

You added your answer to a request for elaboration directed at Shellyc, as quoted above.

Three posts later

, you asked why

I

was answering other people’s questions and only wanted the person you questioned to answer.

[GeniusGamer]

I find that highly inconsistent.

[ItalianoVD]

It would be nice to see Porkens create content that is not just investigating and pushing. However, investigating and pushing is

good

, that is how we find information and contradictions, and that leads to finding scum.

Huh, what other form of content is there? Fluff?

[shellyc]

@GeniusGamer (post 136) Ah. I understand now, it's absolutely great to have preliminary reads.

Some reads:
ItalianoVD: Seems pretty active and was pushing GeniusGamer, which is an alright sus at this stage in my opinion, for his wording.
GeniusGamer: Was pushed and defence is average. Sounds like a fellow newbie. He's starting to talk more though. Needs a closer look.
Porkens: Very aggressive and pushing people, which is how we get info. Strongest townread for now.
MiniMegabyte: newbie vibes, kinda on the quiet side, says he's lost, maybe a little scumleaning here not sure.
Redados, Micc and T-Bone, though posting, haven't posted a ton of game-advancing stuff. (though I understand work commitments etc.)

[ItalianoVD]

@ItalianoVD: So post based reads are the main thing we've got (there is vote analysis).

No I get it, I’m saying only basing ones reads on lurkers or heavy posters will be inconsistent because it’s not alignment indicative.

In my opinion defending players can be of either alignment, though it often happens unconsciously as scum.

Right that’s what I’m saying. We’re in agreement.

[ItalianoVD]

This game has a lot of contradictory/head scratching posts and it’s pretty confusing to me so far as I don’t know if it’s coming from scum or from newbie town and why is Porkens being labeled as aggressive and pushing like it’s a bad thing. Redados and Shelly read him this way, but say it’s a “good” thing.

I kinda feel this way about it.

[ItalianoVD]

Why can’t I post this picture?

[GeniusGamer]

That’s odd. The image, I mean...

I can still view it though.

[ItalianoVD]

Oh so you can see it? I can’t

[Redados]

It would be nice to see Porkens create content that is not just investigating and pushing. However, investigating and pushing is

good

, that is how we find information and contradictions, and that leads to finding scum.

Huh, what other form of content is there? Fluff?

I'm new to mafia, so I could be wrong, but in addition to pushing, I think there can be analysis or observations. The people pushing aren't posting too many analyses/observations, they're just pushing/questioning. Yes, that gets us information and yes, that's good. I think it's totally viable to do that on the first day especially given how early it is. But there is other content besides pushing and questioning.

[Redados]

This game has a lot of contradictory/head scratching posts and it’s pretty confusing to me so far as I don’t know if it’s coming from scum or from newbie town and why is Porkens being labeled as aggressive and pushing like it’s a bad thing. Redados and Shelly read him this way, but say it’s a “good” thing.

I kinda feel this way about it.

Here's how

I

feel about people being aggressive and pushing. It's not fun to have someone aggressively ask questions or question everything you say. Socially, that's not fun. I can see why someone would label it a bad thing, especially if they're new.

However, we won't find scum if we don't push/question. If someone posts a contradiction or weak logic and no one follows up on it, we are (a) letting scum walk unchecked or (b) letting town play poorly, neither of which is optimal.