Newbie 2023 - Hedgehogs - Day 3

[Ouroel]

so if NS says something that I think is dumb/forced for town!NS to think I should scumread him for it?

do you agree that in general scum!NS feels less engaged/lurky? would scum NS have such high activity and engage us this game as he's doing now?

what's your NS read this game?

1). Yes. Good tip regardless.
2). Scum typically lurks at either extremes of activity.
3). Town

I cant read ouriel right now. early on I thought he has to be town as scum isn't that...open, but his approach to wagons is off putting, as is his wanting to pressure -everyome- , which could be convenient for scum.

Scum stands more to lose from pressuring everyone. Unless you are relying on cop, pressuring is literally the only way to get information in the game. Also, relying on cop is stupid.

But lately I have been putting myself into shit positions on later days by giving out townreads with too low of a threshhold because it's hard for me to psychologically backtrack against an earlier townread I made. Then I just confuse myself on D2/D3 because I've townread everyone still alive to some degree

This is why I scumread everybody.

[Ouroel]

Tin foil hat theory - scum!Clarity found it hard to engage with the thread, so activity was a towntell for a fakeread off the top of her head.

The slot needs more pressure.

Clarity is about 3rd on my list now. It's a bit like the type of thing where we should literally tell the cop to go investigate or something, if this is salem

[Ouroel]

@ Ouroel
What changed in your mind from214 to 233 and 239 ?
Why is town now dumb from who you think is town then all town feel scummy?

Working from different assumptions of skill level. If this was high tier you would all be on the chopping block. If this is low tier half the game are trolls and the other half are no activity leavers and there is notscience who actually plays the damn game.

Good to see you actually playing the game. think you might be town.

[Ouroel]

and trolls are more town than no activity leavers

[Ouroel]

-Knowing that activity/engagement is a general towntell and thing you lack is one thing. ACTUALLY fixing it and ACTUALLY generating content quickly, coherently, and genuinely engaging based on that self-reflection knowledge is hard; harder for some than others. Like I know this is one thing that my scumgame lacks a lot (I also just suck at scum), but it doesn't mean that scum!me can just deliver the same confidence and "say whatever's on my mind" verbiage as town!me.
-So this is why I was curious of this and I don't think it's a bad question. If NS is sick enough to be aware of this meta AND bridge it effectively then that tells me a lot, and it also tells me a lot if he's like me and can't. Obviously Clarity hasn't flipped yet but let's just say she flipped scum; I think Nash's "theory" about scum!Clarity knowing about this activity/engagement towntell but actually finding it very difficult to genuinely interact shows parallels to what we're talking about.

That...actually explains a lot. Like why half your posts are weirdly laid back.

[Nash]

VOTE: Nash

[Nash]

VOTE: Andresvmb

[Clarity238]

VOTE: Nash

Normally I'd ask if this was some kind of weird plurshift, but this is maj so uhhh sure, why not.

[Nash]

Plurshift?

[innocentvillager]

i don't hate an Andres vote, that slot is somewhat suspicious

[Bellaphant]

VOTE: andres

[The Bulge]

Sorry, wrong you, I meant bulge. I kinda assumed he's have follow up questions..

What made you assume this? am I gladiated?

Third one. I think it's clear enough he is aware of his own meta (or at the absolute very least, presents as such) so pure amount of activity means very little to me

I just want to add here that:
-Knowing that activity/engagement is a general towntell and thing you lack is one thing. ACTUALLY fixing it and ACTUALLY generating content quickly, coherently, and genuinely engaging based on that self-reflection knowledge is hard; harder for some than others. Like I know this is one thing that my scumgame lacks a lot (I also just suck at scum), but it doesn't mean that scum!me can just deliver the same confidence and "say whatever's on my mind" verbiage as town!me.
-So this is why I was curious of this and I don't think it's a bad question. If NS is sick enough to be aware of this meta AND bridge it effectively then that tells me a lot, and it also tells me a lot if he's like me and can't. Obviously Clarity hasn't flipped yet but let's just say she flipped scum; I think Nash's "theory" about scum!Clarity knowing about this activity/engagement towntell but actually finding it very difficult to genuinely interact shows parallels to what we're talking about.

But Clarity is a newbie, and I am an experienced but poor player (especially scum). And I assume you are giving him his deserved credit and saying he is capable of ramping up the activity.

I think this situation comes up when meta reading far too often for me to ever put more than a fraction of my eggs in the meta basket. Sure you can draw conclusions from analyzing someone's past experience while keeping their general level of play in mind but we can only ever extrapolate from assumptions. Especially when talking about veteran players (not to mention those with a length hiatus on their resume) there are far too many unknowns for to regard meta as highly as you do.

The more a player plays, the less their meta matters. The more we talk about meta, the less meta matters.

Plurshift?

Some sites/setups use a plurality of votes rather than a majority to determine eliminations. I'm assuming this means changing the leading wagon.

[Andresvmb]

Playing two games with new people is not a good idea - it’s difficult to keep it all straight.

Sorry for not coming in for a few days there. I’ll catch up and provide some thoughts. I see the votes piling up on me though.

[Andresvmb]

@Walter there’s not much to read The Bulge yet from. It’s mostly a gut feel. I also don’t quite get why clarity is obvTown and the wagon is dumb (or whatever it was called). It’s way too early in my mind to have such a strong Read on anyone. Except maybe Ouroel - I can see why you would have strong feelings about that slot (Town as far as I can tell, but notscience’s point in 91 about how the posting could be a conscious and strategic decision did cross my mind).

Idk man. I’ll try to explain it?

the hammer sequence comments were still eh especially that last one

Here’s another example of something that feels off, NS had kind of a specific thought that I don’t think is likely for you to have thought of independently, yet you say that you did and you also copied his actual wording, so the subtext I see is your scum!mindset subconsciously trying to fabricate analysis and pass it off as your own

Idk if that makes sense because it’s pretty nit picky and I don’t know how you can really defend against that but I do think this kind of subconscious wording slip is more likely to come from someone with a scum mindset

I stated very early in this game that I had some experience, so why do you think it’s completely implausible that I considered the possibility that a chaotic posting style was a strategic choice?

My reason for stating that btw and why I think it’s important is because I am trying to make it clear that I will always maintain my skepticism of people until the game is over. As in, I’m not one of those players that places you in a Town box and forgets to scrutinize any players’ posts as new information becomes available. So while my initial inclination was to say Ouroel is probably Town, it’s not like I would never reconsider that stance with new information.

[Clarity238]

Plurshift?

Some sites/setups use a plurality of votes rather than a majority to determine eliminations. I'm assuming this means changing the leading wagon.

It does, yes.

Sorry for not coming in for a few days there. I’ll catch up and provide some thoughts. I see the votes piling up on me though.

Not a fan of this non-committal "oh look people are voting about me... I'll deal with it later" attitude. (yes, i do appreciate the irony here)

[Andresvmb]

@Clarity recognizing the pressure on me is NAI. It simply means that I can see that you all are more interested in hearing more from me. Unless you think you have me as certain Scum with however many posts I have so far.

[Andresvmb]

i don't hate an Andres vote, that slot is somewhat suspicious

How am I somewhat suspicious? If anything, you could say I’m hard to read because I haven’t really been around and wouldn’t mind voting there or something of the sort. Calling me somewhat suspicious seems like a bit of a stretch no? Anyway, I’m not that interested in your slot right now I think you’re fine and I can’t find anything objectionable in your ISO. If anything I’m getting a little concerned that I’m not developing any strong feelings about any of you. This game just seems like a bland read.

[Clarity238]

@Clarity recognizing the pressure on me is NAI. It simply means that I can see that you all are more interested in hearing more from me. Unless you think you have me as certain Scum with however many posts I have so far.

Pointing out the pressure on you and not doing anything about it makes you more of a scum lean for me - I personally would much rather wait for you to properly respond instead of a quick 'oh yeah i'll do it later'.

[Andresvmb]

I think IV paired with TB or Andres are less likely than random

What makes you think this was less than random?

Spoiler: Andres

I guess townpoints to andres? he could’ve just not pointed it out?

This is an odd reason to townread someone because of the VC just above. I don't expect scum!IV to make the team too obvious this way in case of a flip. Too incautious.

Why? The point is simple. It’s not likely that a Scum Partner would so casually put you close to death like that. They would have been more careful. I’m not SR your slot (I can’t tell what you are yet), so I’m leaning towards caution.

Andres points out how a scum partner would be careful when the other is put close to death just as he switches over to TB without a reason. It's a bold move as his partner to make a self referential statement like this.

Spoiler: TB

lmao am I just casually at E-1

Should I claim?

curious whom you had in mind

lmao am I just casually at E-1

Should I claim?

curious whom you had in mind

like what role I was thinking about claiming?

was that bait

oh I thought you were asking me what role I was thinking of claiming huehuehue (probably Cop or JK, that’ll always get a nice PR to go down with me). If I was scum. If I was town probably just my actual role or whatever

Nah I was just curious if people wanted me to claim because I was at E-1 and that’s what you’re supposed to do at E-1

now I don't know if you're still doing it

This interaction doesn't strike me as scum-scum.

I don’t think it’s a bold move to say any of the things I’ve said so far. If anything I felt my statement was somewhat obvious - Scum Partners aren’t likely to put each other close to death in a game with 2 Scum so early in D1 without even considering the vote count or trying to get as much Town cred as possible by making a show of it.

[Andresvmb]

@Clarity recognizing the pressure on me is NAI. It simply means that I can see that you all are more interested in hearing more from me. Unless you think you have me as certain Scum with however many posts I have so far.

Pointing out the pressure on you and not doing anything about it makes you more of a scum lean for me - I personally would much rather wait for you to properly respond instead of a quick 'oh yeah i'll do it later'.

You’re not even giving me the chance to actually respond though. If you want to use a flimsy reason to harden your SR and justify your vote, by all means.

[Andresvmb]

The real problem is that my reads have a 40% chance to be wrong due to this low-information space that is known as a D1 newbie game. I'm thinking we should wagon Bulge or something
VOTE: bulge

If you’re arguing here that Nash/Clarity are Scum, why did you join the Bulge wagon a few posts later? Just walk me through your thinking there.

[Andresvmb]

^Actually I highlighted your vote and not the post where you said Nash/Clarity are the Scum Team. Anyway.

[Bellaphant]

@bulge, because I asked to chat, you asked me my reads, said you basically agreed but then didn't respond more and are still voting me? I think it's natural to assume you still want to work things through with me. Dunno why you are on about gladiate?

I kind of asked our the same question and the response wasn't great.

[Andresvmb]

VOTE: Bellaphant

Just my early guess. I can’t see a lot of what’s in 272. Hence, my vote.

[Andresvmb]

Like Nash feels like a black hole to me. I just tend to be skeptical of anyone that makes statements like the one contained in 181. It’s a completely meaningless post from where I sit, because you don’t know the alignments of anyone for certain.