Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly


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Post Post #725 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:35 pm

Post by Isis »

Spare Votecount 1.7
Hectic--------------------------

beeboy-----------------------

Chara---------------------------
(2) Chara, catboi
Prism --------------------------

PookyTheMagicalBear -------
(1) PookyTheMagicalBear
catboi--------------------------
(1) Morning Tweet
Morning Tweet----------------
(2) Tayl0r Swift, Hectic
Tayl0r Swift -------------------

Lavender ----------------------

redtea --------------------------

Tanner -------------------------

CantLynchAPuppy-------------
(1) CantLynchAPuppy
Not sparing:
- (5) Prism, Lavender, redtea, Tanner, beeboy



Fight Votecount 1.7
Hectic--------------------------
(2) Tayl0r Swift, Prism
beeboy-----------------------
(3) CantLynchAPuppy, Chara, Hectic
Chara---------------------------
(2) redtea, catboi
Prism --------------------------

PookyTheMagicalBear -------

catboi--------------------------

Morning Tweet----------------

Tayl0r Swift -------------------
(1) Morning Tweet
Lavender ----------------------
(1) Tanner
redtea --------------------------

Tanner -------------------------

CantLynchAPuppy-------------

Not Fighting:
- (3) PookyTheMagicalBear, Lavender, beeboy


"Since it was raining, the hero had to travel in a cave, since that's not rainy!"
Nahdia flickered the lights again, and the overhead sprinklers turned out, and in fact were replaced by grey stalactites. The new setting was even dimmer than before. Part of the stage formed a very thin rocky ledge next a large swath of the stage covered in black construction paper with "death" written over it in red crayon. It was harmless yet still ominous.
"Why.. why don't you go first?" catboi put a warm hand on Chara's shoulder and nudged him forward. It was several meters of ledge to get to other safe, flat part of the stage. But Chara was rather nervous about attempting to walk the ledge without any help for balance.
"Um, I'm ok over here."
"If you don't do cool things, you won't get any Nice Cream!"
"I'm not so hungry."
"Well. You could get some, and give it to me. As a tip. Don't I look so tippable now?"
Chara teetered at the start of the ledge, worried about other kinds of tipping.


With 12 alive and unspared, it takes 7 votes to make a decision.
The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-09-13 23:27:24) There is one deadline extension pending and not yet finalized.
Last edited by Isis on Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
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Post Post #726 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:36 pm

Post by beeboy »

What did I miss?
ah yes, beeboy style reads;
if this person flips town, then i'll townread them. - Nahdia
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Post Post #727 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:44 pm

Post by Chara »

hello everyone! i apologize for disappearing. catching up right now.
"Sibling," Farkran asked, starting slowly.
"The CORE is full of lasers, and Chemist1422's entire existence depends on her eye. If she looks into a laser, she will almost certainly die. Did you think about that?"
"Oh yes, my brother. I love thinking about that."
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Post Post #728 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 4:57 pm

Post by Chara »

Tweet's posting through is towny but 416 especially gets big love from me.

it is notable that Tweet then notes here that she finds Lavender scummy but thinks she's a waste of a fight today, which is also an opinion held by catboi. i don't know if that means anything but it got my attention. Tanner asked about the comment from catboi so we'll see what happens there.
three days left, okay. i promise not to leave again! also hello beeboy, it's nice to see you.
"Sibling," Farkran asked, starting slowly.
"The CORE is full of lasers, and Chemist1422's entire existence depends on her eye. If she looks into a laser, she will almost certainly die. Did you think about that?"
"Oh yes, my brother. I love thinking about that."
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Post Post #729 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:01 pm

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

In post 726, beeboy wrote:What did I miss?
if you admit you are Chara I have a prize for you
Show
"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."

-Norwee


"Please refrain from diverting our sleuths out there Pooky."
~Maple
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Post Post #730 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:10 pm

Post by beeboy »

Chara is already in this game so I think me pretending to be them kinda goes down the drain.
I'll catch up when I am done playing among us which is probably tomorrow since my group usually plays longer then I can stay awake.
ah yes, beeboy style reads;
if this person flips town, then i'll townread them. - Nahdia
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Post Post #731 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:25 pm

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

In post 720, Tayl0r Swift wrote:hmm i reread the iso and im not sure what i was seeing. its possible that the avatar just set me off? on rereading youre more null-town
In post 723, Tayl0r Swift wrote:i dunno! at the time i didnt like that catboi wont lay off pooky. pooky feels like lhf and kinda obvtown. but catboi overall i think is just overeager town.

feels pretty underwhelming. reads badly
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"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."

-Norwee


"Please refrain from diverting our sleuths out there Pooky."
~Maple
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Post Post #732 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:28 pm

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

In post 712, catboi wrote:
In post 670, Prism wrote:2) catboi-are you still scumreading Pooky? I felt he might be overplaying the spare angle at first, he was 2/3 in my scumpool, but after he got more vehement it became more of a coinflip to me. I haven't read his case on you yet. Without really knowing his meta, it seems possible for the heavy hitting out of left field to be a reliable tool in an experienced player's arsenal. But what do you think?
I will admit, I am feeling little pangs of doubt right now. as I said earlier, when I step outside my own headspace, where my motivations are perfectly clear and lucid to me, I can see why he'd be bothered with the way I've said things. Still, I think a tool in his arsenal is to fight back hard and intimidate people, get them to back down. I more or less expected him to flip the switch and get serious when I accused him. I still have a harrd time some of the arguments he is making are genuine thoughts.
This is kind of weird to me - if you haven't sorted my slot to a level of conviction you are comfortable with, why break off and continue to throw shade about my thoughts?

If you think something I am saying is untrue or scummy - please call it out so we can address it. I've presented plenty of thoughts on your interaction with me so far this game and why I find it scummy. If you can go back to your mind-frame at that point and show me what I'm missing and why it is a pro-town frame of mind you are approaching me with, that's better for me as well.
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"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."

-Norwee


"Please refrain from diverting our sleuths out there Pooky."
~Maple
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Post Post #733 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:29 pm

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

In post 711, catboi wrote:Strongly feel that redtea is town
Can you explain this read please? This is one of the players I've been feeling susp of, esp when I called him out and he didn't have an answer - and he still hasn't presented one today.
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"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."

-Norwee


"Please refrain from diverting our sleuths out there Pooky."
~Maple
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Post Post #734 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:44 pm

Post by Chara »

: realistically i consider Element's comment entirely fakeable, but i thought the same thing upon reading it. i shouldn't give townpoints to either of you for that but... i can't help it.

: ooh. this post gave me a terrible feeling. i'll keep an eye out.

Puppy keeps crediting me for the Elements push. it's not an incorrect thing to say, but the repetition is starting to make me feel like it's a purposeful act and not merely to give credit where it is due.
"Sibling," Farkran asked, starting slowly.
"The CORE is full of lasers, and Chemist1422's entire existence depends on her eye. If she looks into a laser, she will almost certainly die. Did you think about that?"
"Oh yes, my brother. I love thinking about that."
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Post Post #735 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:45 pm

Post by Lavender »

In post 632, Hectic wrote: Image

I want her to fulfil my
thoughts on all players
request. It'd be very useful if you could,
Lavender.
Thoughts

Elements: Uhm, no thoughts to be honest? I think they played similarly to last game?
(PE: Well it’s beeboy now huh)

Chara: I think they’re actively trying to find scum and yeah. I don’t remember seeing anything particularly popping out either.

Prism: Walls of text, walls of text that I try to read and fail to comprehend. I can’t do this one ahhhh.

PookyTheMagicalBear: Mmmm, I don’t have a real knowledge on the way they play town game as last time they decided to use gifs only. The tone they use reminds me of the dead chat tone so that’s probably why I’m more inclined to believe them then not.

catboi: Catboi feels flaky, like mmm they started backtracking when Pooky posted a wall. But still on me since I’m an easy fight. Might just be influenced by them being suspicious of me though...

Tanner: Ehhhh, I noticed they posted something about my post hold on.
~ while i know i didn't make it explicit, i think i've made it pretty clear so far that i'm begging certain people to talk about dayplay-related things, and the fact that lavender answers my question going "oh most of the pages so far are mech" is just?? not to mention that that's blatantly false, since there had been plenty of non-mech discussion so far?

~ the next line is again, a non-stance on pooky, and calling the 4 spare route fun?? (while in the last paragraph they wrote how they think they have a better understand of the game because of the mech talk?)
~ when asked who'd they fight if they had to, they chose taylor, because mech-talk is apparently not nothing in their opinion, but in the next line they hurt the backup-mod?
So I’ll explain this first before I explain my thoughts on them.
1. I roughly skimmed those pages, from the recent ones I viewed it all seemed like mech-talk to me, so sorry that it was not the case.

2. Yeah a 4-spare route just seemed fun, I like playing pacifist, and I had no real thoughts on Pooky, did you expect me to make a solid fake one? Understanding game and having fun in game are two different things. Or maybe they’re not, but that’s what I think.

3. Uhm, redtea said gun to my head who would it be, I’m not confident in ANY of my reads. That’s not going to mean I’m going to Hurt them right then and there because that’s who I’d pick if I was forced to.

Tanner Thought Thoughts: Can I say, I utterly hate your tone? Your tone itself is making me biased against you you know? Now before you spin it on me these are my thoughts after all! I just think you’re way too-focused on a certain few people that you fail to think of what happens if you’re wrong.


Morning Tweet: I didn’t remember any of their posts, it’s probably because I connected them up as the same person as Puppy
cough
anyhow. Their posts are easier to read though, well any ways they seem to be thinking of the what’s and if’s and such and such more. Which I feel is town-indicative.

Tayl0r Swift: Unsurrreee now, they made good points in their rebuttal against me, but ah I don’t know mans.
(I did forget to hurt Mod Last Post Tayl0r)
my point was that 7 pages isnt a lot for me to develop solid reads. usually i start by doing a little townhunting, but i really cant townhunt without actual mafia. mechtalk is rarely town indicative.
I now understand that this is what you meant however, I guess I just comprehended your words differently.
I thought mech-talk would be at least a little town-indicative but I see that even scum can do that huh.

redtea: I think their convos with people are intriguing, well in-general they give a more feeling of ‘yeah okay let’s do this’ and seem more townie to me. Well it might just be because they asked me a question that didn’t feel mmm spiny?

CantLynchAPuppy: Ino, they’re definitely contributing, moreso than me but everyone is contributing more than me. Anyways, they asked questions about things that I thought seemed a bit off, so I think this one is cool? Maybes...

Hectic: Best for last or worst for last kind of person? None? Okay fine, anyways I appreciate you highlighting my name in a different color so I could find that post easier. Other than that, ya askin me a lotta questions which I don’t mind.


Hopefully this isn’t like the other times where the people who ask em to me are Evils, that seems to happen la.
Well I doubt it this time this time around.


I started this off relatively awake and now I’m falling into a drunken state of let’s type everything I can!!!!!!!!
Especially on Tanner Thoughts ah, Tanner Thoughts.
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Post Post #736 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:49 pm

Post by Chara »

Lavender's here and it's a big post! more important than catch-up! hello Lavender!
"Sibling," Farkran asked, starting slowly.
"The CORE is full of lasers, and Chemist1422's entire existence depends on her eye. If she looks into a laser, she will almost certainly die. Did you think about that?"
"Oh yes, my brother. I love thinking about that."
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Post Post #737 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:50 pm

Post by catboi »

In post 723, Tayl0r Swift wrote:i dunno! at the time i didnt like that catboi wont lay off pooky. pooky feels like lhf and kinda obvtown. but catboi overall i think is just overeager town.
How is pooky low hanging fruit, and what makes him obvtown?
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Post Post #738 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:01 pm

Post by Chara »

: what do you think of how i've engaged you? also, second note to self to check catboi's Pooky push and see if that assertion is believable/holds water. ....annnd nevermind, Pooky's putting in the work. less for me, yay.
this is actually a fun read. how'd i get on the bear's side?
it tells me more about Pooky's alignment than catboi's... namely, where i was townleaning him before, he's been upgraded to a townread. but i consider all the criticisms to be legitimate ones, and entirely believable to be coming from Pooky, for reasons including the Micro he's referring to and his status as a player being pushed for the reasons he is.
"Sibling," Farkran asked, starting slowly.
"The CORE is full of lasers, and Chemist1422's entire existence depends on her eye. If she looks into a laser, she will almost certainly die. Did you think about that?"
"Oh yes, my brother. I love thinking about that."
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Post Post #739 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:03 pm

Post by Prism »

I ISO'd MT first.

When I first read them awhile back, I didn't like how heavy on the WIFOM speculation a lot of their early posting was. 163 and 179 are good examples. I wasn't impressed with the wall, either. I thought the townreads were really lackluster-me/cat were mostly up there for our EV approaches, and given how many posts of mine MT found genuine in 235, I was confused by the order. Their read on Puppy seemed really weak based on tone, so seeing myself placed at #4 in their spare list on the following post was even more of a ??? moment given what I'd seen to that point.

The process in 690 and 702 seems legitimate though. I think it undersells how valuable giving reads are for the sake of giving reads is as scum, even without clear ulterior motive, but I can see the process clearly here and changing their mind about what direction to go in twice-both times in believable ways-at first made me want to townlock them. I think I'm townreading some dumb things in general, though, and am going to be more cautious.

At first, I read the bit about "Why would Hectic vote to spare me as scum?" and started having flashbacks to all the other times I've acted out "I have no mouth and I must scream" by Harlan Ellison. But I think I need to challenge myself to do more this game: I've taken a much more callous approach, but it is now clear to me with MT/Pooky being stronger than I thought that this game is not as easy as I thought it would be. I need to seriously interrogate these kinds of questions instead of dismissing them. And if I'm seriously going to try to get Hectic voted out, halfassed dismissal won't really cut it. I need to
know
what his alignment is, not
think
it's something and take potshots at people who disagree.
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Post Post #740 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:05 pm

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

I could go with pushing hectic this game - his play this game has felt shadier and less like the brilliant town player that I know he is capable of being.
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"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."

-Norwee


"Please refrain from diverting our sleuths out there Pooky."
~Maple
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Post Post #741 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:08 pm

Post by Chara »

i hate too. objective fact
is
simple. need to go back and check redtea's given read on Pooky at the time of this post, but saying that suspicion on Pooky is justified in a logical sense and that's that is missing a lot i'd like to see from town.

: i have been applying what i learned in that game to sort Hectic myself, and will continue to do so. i am not interested in doing a direct comparison as i find single-game meta to be highly lacking. the reason i linked the game was for Prism's benefit, in case he did feel like doing the meta/would find it useful, because i enjoy how he uses meta.
"Sibling," Farkran asked, starting slowly.
"The CORE is full of lasers, and Chemist1422's entire existence depends on her eye. If she looks into a laser, she will almost certainly die. Did you think about that?"
"Oh yes, my brother. I love thinking about that."
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Post Post #742 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:08 pm

Post by Prism »

My problem is if I go all out for it, and I'm wrong, I have singlehandedly dug us a giant hole.

I have other projects to take care of before I revisit the read from scratch, though.
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Post Post #743 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:12 pm

Post by Chara »

i'm willing to let you do or not do whatever you feel comfortable with. i understand after pressing you on it before that good meta is a massive undertaking, which is precisely why i don't do it. (and why i hate sloppy meta)
"Sibling," Farkran asked, starting slowly.
"The CORE is full of lasers, and Chemist1422's entire existence depends on her eye. If she looks into a laser, she will almost certainly die. Did you think about that?"
"Oh yes, my brother. I love thinking about that."
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Post Post #744 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:16 pm

Post by Prism »

That was a reply to Pooky's 740. I'm definitely metaing Hectic ASAP after I get a clearer picture of some of the players I've neglected to this point.
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Post Post #745 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:25 pm

Post by Prism »

Lavender's wall is really lackluster. Virtually all of my posts are one-two sentences. As someone else pointed out, Chara's scum/townhunting completely took a backseat the last 10 or so pages. None of their thoughts on players have any depth to them.

It's possible this is an example of why depth on one/two players is better than breadth, but they haven't really seriously engaged with the questions people asked them. 431 is doing the bare minimum. There's so much more they could follow with these paths...and they don't. Their read on Tayl0r is also ?? since they similarly skimmed over mech talk even if they acknowledged it was good.

I tried reading Tanner, but for me he's pretty solidly null. A few days ago I would have leaned town by default but now I think that's sloppy garbage. All of his reads are pretty plausible as either alignment.

Tanner, who do you think would be your top choices outside of Lavender? I see you had a previous vote on Pooky.
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Post Post #746 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:31 pm

Post by Prism »

I guess Lavender's breadth approach is coming from it being directly what Hectic asked for, but my advice for Lavender would be:

Playing the game Q&A interview style as town has limitations. You need to chew on thoughts for awhile, let them stew, and be proactive in approaching things that interest you. If you don't have anything that interests you, simply reread. I promise you will find something if you really think about it.
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Post Post #747 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:31 pm

Post by Prism »

I guess Lavender's breadth approach is coming from it being directly what Hectic asked for, but my advice for Lavender would be:

Playing the game Q&A interview style as town has limitations. You need to chew on thoughts for awhile, let them stew, and be proactive in approaching things that interest you. If you don't have anything that interests you, simply reread. I promise you will find something if you really think about it.
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Post Post #748 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:38 pm

Post by Chara »

: special mention 666 post. but also, this is another tiny tick towards town Pooky nirvana. tiny because i haven't worked on my Hectic "thing" yet. but nearly caught up!

: right here, i apologize again. <3
i'm a bit iffy on townreading Prism for saying good things that make sense.... which is unfair to Prism. oh well, i'm not going to want to eliminate them anytime soon regardless! but i'm feeling a whole lot better about Prism's questioning of Hectic than i was. there is something missing here, i feel. part of it is simply a lower thread presence, which i don't believe is AI. again, pending.
Hectic's response in is also... warranted. it's true that he can't be expected to play in the most efficient manner possible all of the time. okay, i'm just going to shelve this until i'm done. Hectic's post confessing not being into this game also dampens any tells i might want to pull out if his play today. :<

: i'm not sure why every time i feel like interacting with you is to put a "slow down" sign in front of your reads. thats seems unfair, because i like you and your posts, but it is probably also a symptom of (now even more strongly) unconsciously reading you as town.
anyways, this is the same reasoning Hectic used last time (me pushing him strongly for spare day 1 and 2) to townread scum me, after i pushed him strongly to be spared. the reason for scum to do it is because it looks good, it can net TRs when you feel it unlikely you'll be spared yourself, etc.

...and your literal next post is further thought on the matter. now i feel silly. i guess i just like sharing things.

i think i'm cautiously neutral on catboi at this point in time. i am interested in why he's very confident in redtea town.

: can't fault catboi for this one. he is correct. i wasn't caught up, so popping in to reply to the mechanics Pooky was discussing was all i was able to do. that shouldn't be a problem anymore.
"Sibling," Farkran asked, starting slowly.
"The CORE is full of lasers, and Chemist1422's entire existence depends on her eye. If she looks into a laser, she will almost certainly die. Did you think about that?"
"Oh yes, my brother. I love thinking about that."
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Prism
Jack of All Trades
Jack of All Trades
Posts: 8597
Joined: August 18, 2015

Post Post #749 (ISO) » Thu Sep 10, 2020 7:40 pm

Post by Prism »

For Chara, I kind of want breadth actually.

Can you give some cursory updates on where you're at with 3/4 different people of your choice?

P-Edit: Neat, I'll read that in a second
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