Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[redtea]

Huh
I had it indexed in my mind as a "don't tr catboi he's sus" case than outright sr-case but
then again I haven't read it yet

[catboi]

Prism's read list had a set of takes that I think come from town.
His read on MT although consistent of him saying a bunch of MT traits and calling them scum indicative.
I also really liked that read in particular.

To some degree I want to town read MT for Hectic's "Top secret meta read", since good players tend to not say that without a real reason to do so.
But I also think I could probably read her on my own since I am fairly experienced playing with her, and she did perceive herself to be scum in one game even if she was town and could have thought it was multiball.

I originally wanted to question Hectic because I never heard of this tell before!!! But the 3 games that the 3 of us touched were 2 games modded by hectic and 1 modded by MT.
For the amount I've played with both Hectic and MT I am genuinely suprised this is the first time the 3 of us have played together. I don't want to count the dance game since it was an anon game.

I haven't thought about the setup yet, but can I be punished for sparing town and hurting scum?
I don't even thinking only sparing is that bad because finding 4 confident town reads isn't actually the hardest thing the world. (I do not believe it calling for 5 matters since you gain an elim in that pool anyway.)

Zero sounds like a misplay due to the nature of finding town reads just being easier then finding scum reads.


So basically my mentality is spare at least 1 town, after that who cares even if we literally spare 4 town.

Just wondering: what parts of the thread have you read?

[catboi]

2) Catboi

I find it strange that he would pursue the path of attacking me and claim that he expected me to bury him in a giant wall and then back off the way he did.

If this is what you expect me to do when you attack then why would you even attack in the first place if you were just going to walk away? The behavior is strange and I'm not sure if it is AI.

I am weak. But really, it was a combination of not quite being able to keep pace with the game for a few days and the feeling of "is this really the direction I want to go in?" and I kind of lost conviction somewhere along the way.

[catboi]

like post 535 he says I'm chara but his heal is on me and he doesn't hurt me - he only unheals me in like post 639. it feels like a reactionary read-list to my read-list where I call him Chara.

That was kind of exactly what I figured it was, given that his other significant scumreads were people who scumread him. I tend to see that trait as somewhat more likely to come from town, though. May be biased from the one old game of his on an Undertale setup that I skimmed to see how he approached the strategy where he had a "this person must be scum for misreading me because i dont believe he would be this bad" spat fairly early on.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

There's no spat tho He didn't even say anything about it lol

[catboi]

Yeah...there was a fair bit of time in between him saying to spare you and calling you chara, so it's not like reads can't change in that time, but of course he didn't say anything about it so who knows. Wish I'd actually asked him, that was a mistake. In hindsight it

could

have been him latching on to me after I'd slightly defended him to mirror my scumread at the time. Idk. (^._.^)ﾉ

[Chara]

Also, for Hectic/Chara/anyone else that feels like it, skim the first five to ten posts of mine of this game for me.

what am i looking for here? it's a scumgame from a couple of years ago from you... you seem like a different player, ahahaha. very aggressive.

[Chara]

Re: townreading someone (catboi) mostly for voting Taylor ??? this is very scumteam dependent. Scum lynch today would be disastrous and catboi has made his way around all three of the weakest slots (Pooky has since taken a stronger role) and dodged seriously pushing anything else like the plague, even when he seems to have reason to. The push on you is the first one that really deviated, and it wasn't very longlived. Catboi struggling to get reads here in general is pretty plausible, as I mentioned I'm struggling to, but I haven't really seen anything that makes me go "Yeah, this is a townpush"

it doesn't make him town, that was a bit of an exaggeration... but we are running low on time and catboi's decision to go "fuck it, Taylor" does seem more pro-town than not. hell, i can't even find anyone i want to push, which is pretty unfortunate.

i think i would have liked the push on me more if it had continued, yes, with some sort of interrogation of my reads. but considering Taylor's the closest slot i have to a scumread, it's still not a bad vote.

[Chara]

chara - am i the only one thinking chara might be scum here? chara let themself be talked into scumreading me pretty easily, and seems to float around the popular opinions a lot but never do much scumhunting

i don't think this is a very accurate representation of my play at all. did you actually read what i explained i found i didn't like from you? rethinking the TR was prompted by others, but nobody spoonfed me the conclusion i came to when i looked into my own read.

[Chara]

To some degree I want to town read MT for Hectic's "Top secret meta read", since good players tend to not say that without a real reason to do so.
But I also think I could probably read her on my own since I am fairly experienced playing with her, and she did perceive herself to be scum in one game even if she was town and could have thought it was multiball.

what's your read on Hectic, beeboy?

[Hectic]

Also, for Hectic/Chara/anyone else that feels like it, skim the first five to ten posts of mine of this game for me.

what am i looking for here? it's a scumgame from a couple of years ago from you... you seem like a different player, ahahaha. very aggressive.

Old Prism was kinda scary lul. Are you suggesting you still play scum like this, Prism? You weren't anything like that in the hydra minigame iirc.

I guess your play here actually lines up more with that game than how you played in the previous Undertale game, but you were quite chill in the Black Hole Defection game too, so I don't think it means a lot.

[Lavender]

Ehh, I don't really remember my first games to be honest |.o)

[CantHateAPuppy]

is there an unhurt tag?

[unhurt]hectic[/unhurt]

guess not

HURT: no one

im around now, skimmed the last few pages but nothing really jumps out at me.feeling a little lost now? still feel like my townreads are ok, anybody has anything they want me to say / answer i'm around now

[CantHateAPuppy]

kind of amusing that everybody else is noticing the same things i said about elements except now also scumreading me for them (?). lmao. beeboy doesn't ping me the same way but he also hasn'd said anything yet so i kinda want to talk to him. also maybe chara and catboi. and didn't redtea have something he wanted to ask me or was that oo long ago

[Prism]

Also, for Hectic/Chara/anyone else that feels like it, skim the first five to ten posts of mine of this game for me.

what am i looking for here? it's a scumgame from a couple of years ago from you... you seem like a different player, ahahaha. very aggressive.

Also, for Hectic/Chara/anyone else that feels like it, skim the first five to ten posts of mine of this game for me.

what am i looking for here? it's a scumgame from a couple of years ago from you... you seem like a different player, ahahaha. very aggressive.

Old Prism was kinda scary lul. Are you suggesting you still play scum like this, Prism? You weren't anything like that in the hydra minigame iirc.

I guess your play here actually lines up more with that game than how you played in the previous Undertale game, but you were quite chill in the Black Hole Defection game too, so I don't think it means a lot.

So I didn't really have anything particular I wanted from linking it. Chara hasn't actually outed a townread on me but seems to trust me a lot this game. Hectic seems to guttownread me. Because of that, I thought linking a scumgame where I took a similar approach tonally/in making reads would make for interesting reading.

The time doesn't actually matter that much. I haven't evolved as a scum player since 2016, and while I've improved in some ways as town other aspects have taken massive hits. I've steadily gotten worse over the years. Kind of sad but that's what happens when you put progressively less time into a hobby. I guess I did at least find playing scum tolerable back then, which is a big difference.

[Prism]

On another note, I probably shouldn't dedicate too much time to this game before deadline. I've got an interview to prepare for on Monday and I'm tired of living life spamming League of Legends in my computer chair, surrounded by an ocean of McDonald's bags, so I really want to prepare for it.

I'm trying to think of people I'd be fine voting before then. I think Hectic deserves more of a shot/more time to review...but also I don't really have any other scumreads

period

. I'm fine lurker lynching Lavender. I wonder what the EV difference is for 1 correct spare/1 incorrect fight just because qualitatively I feel a lot better about my chances sparing, but I really doubt we go that route and it'd be pretty halfassed.

At some point yesterday I realized I don't really think I've seen much from Tanner on the more active players in the game. That leaves a lot to be desired.

I think my preference would be something like Hectic->beeboy->Lavender->Others, maybe Tanner/Tayl0r? I really have no opinion on Puppy and I'd rather leave catboi for a bit.

[Prism]

I speculated that Hectic/beeboy might be S/S but part of me also feels like that's total crap. I really am not confident in my Hectic read - and I'm really not sure why, other than lack of experience with his a weaker towngame of his firsthand - and neither of Elements/beeboy have impressed me.

Actually Hectic, can you link me a game you struggled similarly as town?

[Tanner]

one maybe less boring answer is hectic. i'm kind of... creeped out by his play around lavender? asks them for a readslist with feels about players, and once they make that one post doing what was asked of them, they go pretty high up in his reads because... they did a similar post in one towngame? and the one scumgame over a year ago their readslist was "less fluffy"?

As I mentioned before, it's not just the readlist, it's the general posting in both of those games, and not just that towngame, I checked the towngame before that too. catboi raises a good point that it seems like her tone has just shifted in general over time though.

I was excited to be able to call her town because she seems like a difficult read! I still think there's fair value to it because I think her first scumgame after so long would still have less elements of her townplay - the uncertainty and stream of consciousness while writing posts I mean.

i kinda want you to elaborate on this last part, where exactly has she shown Stream of Consciousness other than that one post? i was gonna ask about uncertainty too but i guess that's like... every post? and iunno. it was just one post. it almost seemed orchestrated in a way, "hey lavender post reads", *lavender posts reads*, "ok ur town"

why are we discussing sparing again oh my god

i wasn't in pooky's thoughts and that's sad

ok posting this before i get distracted again, will read what else i missed in a bit

[catboi]

is there an unhurt tag?

[unhurt]hectic[/unhurt]

guess not

HURT: no one

im around now, skimmed the last few pages but nothing really jumps out at me.feeling a little lost now? still feel like my townreads are ok, anybody has anything they want me to say / answer i'm around now

｢(ﾟﾍﾟ) Why the unvote?

kind of amusing that everybody else is noticing the same things i said about elements except now also scumreading me for them (?). lmao. beeboy doesn't ping me the same way but he also hasn'd said anything yet so i kinda want to talk to him. also maybe chara and catboi. and didn't redtea have something he wanted to ask me or was that oo long ago

Starting to feel in a funny way that the elements slot has been controversial enough that flipping there wouldn't be too bad regardless of the result because we could read offhow people approached it. Also beeboy's entry posts weren't great.

On another note, I probably shouldn't dedicate too much time to this game before deadline. I've got an interview to prepare for on Monday and I'm tired of living life spamming League of Legends in my computer chair, surrounded by an ocean of McDonald's bags, so I really want to prepare for it.

I'm trying to think of people I'd be fine voting before then. I think Hectic deserves more of a shot/more time to review...but also I don't really have any other scumreads

period

. I'm fine lurker lynching Lavender. I wonder what the EV difference is for 1 correct spare/1 incorrect fight just because qualitatively I feel a lot better about my chances sparing, but I really doubt we go that route and it'd be pretty halfassed.

At some point yesterday I realized I don't really think I've seen much from Tanner on the more active players in the game. That leaves a lot to be desired.

I think my preference would be something like Hectic->beeboy->Lavender->Others, maybe Tanner/Tayl0r? I really have no opinion on Puppy and I'd rather leave catboi for a bit.

The EV for a correct spare day 1 is nearly identical to a misfight day 1. Put it this way: given to option, if I was 1 vote away from both being able to spare or fight myself, I would self-hammer the fight. I think the information we get from the flips (of both the fight target and Vengeful Chara) is far more valuable and that's going to help people get their bearings a lot more on day 2.

Hectic makes me keep having doubts but I'm in a mode where maybe I'm just being bad and I'd sheep you if that's where you really want to go. I need to compile my thoughts into a list of people I don't want to kill today.

[Hectic]

Actually Hectic, can you link me a game you struggled similarly as town?

Probably my worst towngame
Recent one where reads here were pretty lacklustre

It's worth noting that I find myself playing a lot looser and freely on alts nowadays. Maybe it's some kind of weird mental block on my main or something.

[Hectic]

i kinda want you to elaborate on this last part, where exactly has she shown Stream of Consciousness other than that one post? i was gonna ask about uncertainty too but i guess that's like... every post? and iunno. it was just one post. it almost seemed orchestrated in a way, "hey lavender post reads", *lavender posts reads*, "ok ur town"

That's not what happened though. I was looking for something specifically in her reads, and I got it. If they matched the type of list she made in her scumgame, I would instead be pushing to FIGHT her today. She posts infrequently and doesn't give a lot of content, so it's hard to see if she's in that "stream of consciousness" mode or not, which is why a big old readlist helped loads with that.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

maybe it's burnout? you seem pretty over-active

[Hectic]

Yeah, maybe

[Tanner]

ok, the takeaway i got is that i'd be fine fighting elements i guess.

pedit: okay. i guess my issue stems from the fact that, since she's done a readslist like that as town very shortly ago, i think it wouldn't be *that much* of a problem to replicate it. maybe i'm projecting, i dunno. but making one post that they have a recent "reference" for just doesn't... seem like something that should be given a lot of towncred over.
ppedit: @hectic

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

i wasn't in pooky's thoughts and that's sad

I think I've already said I tr you