Open 791 | Forest Fire | Game Over

[Isis]

Am I a bad person if I don’t read all of that

[Isis]

i feel it stronger than most other players would, I think, because my town stat sheet is pretty heavily skewed towards campaigning and canvassing. Convincing other players to vote the way I want them to is something I'm disproportionately good at/focused on/DunningKruger'ed onto (choose 2/3 that you like) and I put comparatively low effort into determining those reads are correct in the first instance. Generally it doesn't take much effort, to get a notion I believe in, and I don't work as hard as other tryhard players to make sure what I believe in is correct.

I'm having a tough time parsing this. Let's try a paraphrase and see where it gets me. Keeping the filter on high.

You're good at talking other people into getting the eliminations you want. You focus more on that than you do on trying to figure out if you're eliminating scum or not - as Town.

That's the first part. It's definitely not my playstyle, but this game does not consist of an army of clones of me. You've mentioned earlier that you've been finding it difficult to do that. That may contribute to the drift. (You may have said that as well; I don't recall). That may also contribute to a reason why you're not fighting the inertia.

Any of that wrong?

That sounds like good paraphrasing.

I think it's a defensible preference, if there is a player I think it 4-7% more likely to be scum, another that is 5-10% more likely to be scum, and a third that I think is 8-9% more likely to be scum, it's possible by my talent for narrowing the ranges and putting those into correct sorts isn't as valuable as the win% gains from stomping around and making sure I get the town to vote with me on the 8-9% person every single time

[Farren]

so the main thing I have a tendency to want to focus on is kind of nullified by having organic suspicions towards several slots, but those suspicions being countered by counterarguments from those players themselves or white knights (queue, spelled "queue", Farren complaining that that term has negative connotations even though I only want the denotation and not the connotation here). Repeatedly I've struggled with the idea of deciding that I've never scumread Hectic as scum and carried my way through to effectuating his elimination without him talking me out of it which makes me just want to pretend I didn't read any of his defenses. But that can be intellectually disingenuous and overreactive and bad. Feeding into the temptation is the knowledge that I am able to scumread Hectic correctly in the first instance, apparently, I found out during this game in the Nightmare Scum PT that he was a secret alt I grew suspicious enough of to investigate, which changed my record.

Why use the term with the connotation, if you don't want the connotation to apply?

The part about Hectic - I don't understand what you're trying to say. Restructuring to see if I can make sense of it.
- You're able to scumread Hectic correctly.
- When you've done so in the past, he's talked you out of trying to eliminate him.
- Because of #2, you want to pretend you didn't read his defenses.
- #3 is bad.

I understand why #3 would be bad. I don't understand how #2 leads to #3.
Relevance to the current situation: you're going through the loop again? Scumreading tea leaves, but he's talking his way out of it?

PEdit> wait, maybe I do understand why 2 leads to 3. If you're correctly scumreading him and he's talking you out of it, then you're avoiding eliminating scum. So ignoring the defenses means you eliminate him anyway, eliminating scum.

[Morning Tweet]

you like getting your way more than you like being right, because getting your way as town makes it more likely that town will hit scum by default?

that's my main takeaway so far, is it correct

also fair enough if so, I sure can't do that

[Isis]

yay we made it


but anyway

the idea that an intellectually disingenuous strategy in mafia might be a gross but winning strategy isn't uncommon.
That's what BoP is, you know

[Isis]

i mean we don't know whether maybe i just like getting my way because I'm petulant

[Isis]

Why use the term with the connotation, if you don't want the connotation to apply?

because I want Morning Tweet to feel as mana efficient as this turn 2 play

[Morning Tweet]

Also yes Dunn is good (´･ω･`)

VOTE: tea

[Farren]

another element of being a highly persuasion-polarized player is I run into the strange effect that my ability to canvas for eliminations can often outstrap my ability to make them accurate, which means that postgame review of my losses me queda con which means "leaves me with" but it's gotten so weird to use half of Hectic's alt name, me queda con a bunch of games where I would have been more likely to win if I had done nothing at all. It's like, always going to look like that if I get a high proportion of my desired eliminations. So where other players might slightly want to get lethargic or "allow inertia to take over" as you say I have an increased propensity to do so?

This sounds like the strategy of a player that would not allow inertia to take over. Not giving up is part of being good at campaigning, yes?

And just to be clear: I am saying I think you would have an increased propensity to *not* let inertia take over as Town.

[Morning Tweet]

i mean we don't know whether maybe i just like getting my way because I'm petulant

ok well im giving u the benefit of the doubt and saying it's because it's a pro strat

[Isis]

i'm so good at campaigning it's unusual that concepts like "perseverance" start kicking in in ways similar to how they are happening here. And remembering, it seems like those tend to be the games where I got the eliminations I preferred anyways, but then lost anyways. So there is some paranoia.

Do you think, in the alternative, that I give up and start going with the slow when I reach a certain point as scum? you seem to have left that side of the coin open ended.
My scumgame is also very silvertonguey, I think. I'm not sure why I would lay back as scum either. I think it's pretty unusual and a confluence of circumstances that I would lay back as a persuasive player in general, yeah, but because I am a persuasive player it means there are certain moments like this one where I start to feel murderguiltparanoia of sorts about actually getting what I want if something actually drags out.

[Isis]

Morning Tweet do you remember how much I screamed about not wanting my neighborhood stumped vs. how much time I actually spent sorting Auro/tweet/drew neighborhood in triad X_X

[Isis]

BELL DON'T MISS STORYTIME

[Bell]

Don’t worry. I’m lurking.

[Bell]

Update: GL > isis > tea

[Morning Tweet]

Morning Tweet do you remember how much I screamed about not wanting my neighborhood stumped vs. how much time I actually spent sorting Auro/tweet/drew neighborhood in triad X_X

Lol i legitimately kind of thought we lost when you self-voted cause i didnt think u were gonna be the town in that hood

To be fair that strategy has a 6/7 chance of being successful at the start, then 3/4

and it was really clear to Auro/I that it wasn't our hood for a very long time, so we didn't really feel the need to do much else other than screw with the other hoods and see which would try and get rid of us. u didnt have access to what made us sure we were town

[Morning Tweet]

Update: GL > isis > tea

what do i have to do to get tea to drop a tier

[Isis]

Update: GL > isis > tea

What is that ordering

is it tic tac toe skill level?

GL shouldn't get credit for adhering to the rules.

[tea leaves]

I didn't have this kind of WIM in those games though, Isis. Once you scumread me, our interactions were fairly brief.

Morning, did you have a look at the Nightmare game I linked?

[Morning Tweet]

No

[tea leaves]

?_?

[Morning Tweet]

i will do that later

maybe

[Bell]

i’m not sure. He’s my scum partner. But then ydrasse flipped and two became three.

[tea leaves]

Just skim it for like 5 minutes, I'm not asking you to do a full read of it or anything. The contrast is blinding. I know being proved wrong on a scumread can hurt, but we gotta face our fears etc etc

[tea leaves]

That's some interesting theory though, Isis. I know Ank was huge on that, like the Blake Belladonna account was solely focused on acting 100% confident on scumreads and just getting people to sheep them. She was pretty successful.