Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly


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Post Post #1025 (ISO) » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:41 pm

Post by Lavender »

In post 939, catboi wrote:
In post 937, Lavender wrote:Ugh, dunno what to do right now. orz
I know you're unsure about everyone in this game, but if you had to pick one person in this game you're most sure of, good or bad, who would you choose and why?
(´Д`|||)
I guess redtea as good, just a gut feeling to be honest, but it’s what I think most strongly? Hm? Maybe?
Well I don’t recall what my gut feelings were like anyways...
I’m way too biased if I think about bad okay ( ・᷄ὢ・᷅ )
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Post Post #1026 (ISO) » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:56 pm

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

In post 1022, beeboy wrote:@Hectic the progression throughout these 3 posts is what I view as scum indicative.
It feels very fast and all in response to posts that reference me, like "ah yes guess I will miselim this town if you all insist."
I agree with this and I think she is scum with you. Thinking you are Chara and we flip Taylor tomm will be game-over. ^.^
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Post Post #1027 (ISO) » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:57 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

a remarkable showing of optimism by pooky
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Post Post #1028 (ISO) » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:02 pm

Post by catboi »

I do not find that confidence natural-sounding
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Post Post #1029 (ISO) » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:23 pm

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

I am very over-optimistic by nature. If Ele doesn't flip chara obv this theory is no bueno
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Post Post #1030 (ISO) » Mon Sep 14, 2020 5:43 pm

Post by Prism »

In post 1016, Chara wrote:so, i finished reading the Prism and kitty argument. i don't know, i don't like Prism's approach to it at all. there's pressing for explanation or depth to a read and then there's pressing beyond what's reasonable. accusing kitty if AtE again and again and then, what, jokingly insulting them in your recent posts? if you're trying to kid, it's just coming off as nasty. you keep saying kitty should have agreed to disagree and ended it but you could have done the same thing, especially when it became clear you weren't getting anywhere.
I think putting together an entire timeline of my read on catboi would be really enlightening but I'll keep it to addressing your points here for now, and probably revisit it Day 2.

The first is that the joking insults/being nasty were absolutely intentional. To be blunt, the reason catboi is hardtown to me is that he just left a $50 bill on the ground as scum. The indignation in response to his reads being shit on is a pretty common towncat trope, but he can do it as both alignments. Being wary really isn't out of his range either, though. He publicly portrayed fear of me setting up or trying to ensnare him in something. What made me suspect this was legitimate due to how non-concrete and coinflippy of a fight it was-I think if he really wanted to scumpush me, he'd make sure he had really solid footing unless circumstances forced him to coinflip it.

The way to confirm this was just to bait him much more flagrantly.

He has nothing to fear as scum in this scenario. I've already outed a townread on him, I'm completely wrong in my read, there's very little conniving for me to do to begin with, and because my reads are wrong/I don't know the team any setup is destined to fail spectacularly. He has
carte blanche
here and I'm really not a threat. He can act indignant, he can outright push me for publicly and blatantly baiting him in bad faith, and he can probably collect a townread all the while for doing so. Instead he moved quickly to just leave the bait be and not engage with it further. To me, the explanation is that he
really is worried
that I am planning something against him.

This isn't really dependent on catboi's style, or dependent on him taking the same weird oracle/clairvoyent view of longterm strategy that I leaned on earlier with him. This just depends on his ability to recognize+capitalize on extremely blatant town mistakes. And he can.

The more minor imo points to address are that I think his initial reaction was fairly emotional instead of just fairly evaluating his own read/my reaction to it. I thought that was a more interesting avenue, and trying to both get him to see my perspective and fish out if it was legitimate had a lot of value. I recognized at some point it was a cycle of stating my perspective -> defensive -> me restating my perspective to see why he wasn't understanding it, and agree I could have actually ended it had I wanted to. After a certain point, though, it became a lot easier for me to read into+important to me for us to get on the same page about why I read him how I did.

Finally, for the nastiness itself, it's worth noting that certain aspects of it were absolutely tongue-in-cheek, but in an imitative way. Calling him a manbaby and saying baby want his bottle were things that could practically be copy pasted from a chat of ours, or catboi trolling someone he thinks is bad. I wouldn't speak to anyone else this way, ever: only catboi.
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Post Post #1031 (ISO) » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:00 pm

Post by Prism »

I've got kind of a second wind now that I actually have a read I feel good+confident in.

I don't really find beeboy's push on Tayl0r very persuasive. I wouldn't be really surprised if she flipped scum, but watching them flip town is the most natural thing in the world. The only thing that bothers me about her is that on cat the gutread went from scum->town->scum? I get 1/3 but wish 2 had been explained better.

I need to find a town replace-in beeboy but a recent scumgame had you doing the same with immediately asking for the same style of catchup read which again sets off my Ben Franklin effect alarms
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Post Post #1032 (ISO) » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:05 pm

Post by Prism »

I really want redtea to come around.

I want Hectic more now and the fact that this isn't happening is tragic imo. #1007 feels like working backwards from beeboy-scum to me. Beeboy is asking for the thought process behind the PoE, and Hectic's response is "Well why are the PoE choices themselves scum?" which is really shifting the burden here. The thought process behind it is pretty clearly AI, speculating on motivation behind the specific PoE choices made by scumTayl0r generally requires knowledge of the scumteam and Tayl0r's scumplay that none of us have.
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Post Post #1033 (ISO) » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:13 pm

Post by Prism »

My order hasn't really changed. Hectic->beeboy->Lavender. The last one is really just fighting the (to me) unreadable coinflip, while at least with Tayl0r there's some hope of getting a read later down the line.

Continued refusal to read/play, posting one small snippet daily, is Chara-esque but seems like their style in general? I don't really like to rolehunt that much but beeboy/Tanner are both strong candidates here too imo
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Post Post #1034 (ISO) » Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:55 pm

Post by Chara »

i think. i agree with your kitty conclusion.
and my post was not really about AI things in my head so i appreciate the depth with which you answered me.
it's late so you'll excuse my paranoia of feeling like you're playing directly to me now, especially since i don't think you'd have a real way if knowing how to play to town me? besides from this game. it's mostly the Taylor read, though you're not even the first person to agree with it.
anyways. crunch time tomorrow. i'll be there, i'm getting real antsy about getting
a
flip now.
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Post Post #1035 (ISO) » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:58 pm

Post by Prism »

I'm headed off for now but I'll make sure to hop on a few hours near deadline.

Looking like beeboy, we're in the dead hours.
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Post Post #1036 (ISO) » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:05 pm

Post by Prism »

Lavender might have the votes too actually? IDK will try to take better survey tomorrow
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Post Post #1037 (ISO) » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:38 pm

Post by Morning Tweet »

I would be comfortable sparing (in a more peaceful alternate universe) Prism, Pooky, catboi, and surprisingly tayl0r as well.

I know catboi and Pooky had that big 1v1 but i didnt read it for the most part. I'll check it later if it's important

I thought about pausing catboi just below the spare line pending a reevaluation but i think his "shot in the dark" post onto Lavender probably comes from town

Here's the breakdown after my reread:

Prism
Pooky
Tayl0r
Catboi
-------- SPARE LINE --------
Hectic
Redtea
Chara
-------------------------------
Tanner
Puppy
-------------------------------
Lavender
Elements-beeboy

Doesn't seem like Puppy and Elements would be scum together. want to say Puppy shoots up into town area after an Elements red flip

I'm going to feel really stupid for reversing on Tayl0r if she's scum

i need to prepare for the scenario where Lavender is town more -- I think my plan of attack would be checking through Hectic/Redtea/Chara first, Puppy too if Elements is town.

I actually don't feel too bad about the odds on this one though HURT: beeboy
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Post Post #1038 (ISO) » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:15 am

Post by CantHateAPuppy »

Hey guys. Sorry haven't been on much, a little busy last few days. Not sure why there's discontent with the elements/beeboy wagon? Will check in later as deadline approaches
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Post Post #1039 (ISO) » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:26 am

Post by Hectic »

In post 1032, Prism wrote:I really want redtea to come around.

I want Hectic more now and the fact that this isn't happening is tragic imo. #1007 feels like working backwards from beeboy-scum to me. Beeboy is asking for the thought process behind the PoE, and Hectic's response is "Well why are the PoE choices themselves scum?" which is really shifting the burden here. The thought process behind it is pretty clearly AI, speculating on motivation behind the specific PoE choices made by scumTayl0r generally requires knowledge of the scumteam and Tayl0r's scumplay that none of us have.
No, it's me asking beeboy to expand on why he thinks it's scum-indicative so that I can better read his alignment.
I'm not asking "why the PoE choices are scum", I'm asking why having 2 people as PoE, and another not listed as PoE (where all 3 have similar nothing to townread them for reasons listed) is scummy. Yes, it's inconsistent, but is the inconsistency necessarily scummy unless there's specific scum-motivation for it?

Are you misinterpreting my question or is there soemthing I'm not getting here?
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Post Post #1040 (ISO) » Tue Sep 15, 2020 1:56 am

Post by catboi »

In post 1032, Prism wrote:I really want redtea to come around.
He's in replacement territory
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Post Post #1041 (ISO) » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:07 am

Post by Prism »

I fail to see this as a misinterpretation.
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Post Post #1042 (ISO) » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:43 am

Post by Hectic »

I don't understand what you're saying then.
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Post Post #1043 (ISO) » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:44 am

Post by Hectic »

In post 831, Isis wrote:
The new deadline after the extension for Elements' replacement is (expired on 2020-09-15 15:27:24)
(it was a forty hour extension).
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Post Post #1044 (ISO) » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:50 am

Post by catboi »

HURT: beeboy
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Post Post #1045 (ISO) » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:54 am

Post by catboi »

F-1, btw

I don't really feel great on this or the game in general. Hoping maybe the flips cause a refocusing but actually feel kind of grim, tbh. •(◐﹏◐)•
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Post Post #1046 (ISO) » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:56 am

Post by Tanner »

deadline freeze due to a possible replacement is unlikely, right...

i'll hammer that in ~an hour if someome doesn't beat me to it
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Post Post #1047 (ISO) » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:59 am

Post by Morning Tweet »

In post 1045, catboi wrote:F-1, btw

I don't really feel great on this or the game in general. Hoping maybe the flips cause a refocusing but actually feel kind of grim, tbh. •(◐﹏◐)•
oh ye of little faith

this is a scumflip
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Post Post #1048 (ISO) » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:00 am

Post by Prism »

HURT: beeboy

see ya nerds

xoxo love chara
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Post Post #1049 (ISO) » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:00 am

Post by catboi »

Meh, wouldn't be the first time I've been bad
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