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Post Post #1575 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:53 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

agree on puppy

I'm going to re-read the section around this VC:
In post 550, Isis wrote:PookyTheMagicalBear ------- (3) Hectic, catboi, Tanner

As I think it is the fork in the road where scum could've driven a Pooky-Miselim and saved Beeboy/Ele and I'm really curious now why this didn't happen if the wagon is clean.
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Post Post #1576 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:55 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

In post 523, redtea wrote:pooky the fact that that makes sense is hilarious
unfortunately catboi is too town for that
this post is kinda wild cuz he doesnt mention the other 2 people in my readlists so if the remaining scum really are redtea/taylor swift that would be hilarious
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Post Post #1577 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:58 am

Post by CantHateAPuppy »

oh oh oh if i post now do i get to talk to prism live? please plase please

i really like 1571 and 1574 on this page, which p-accurately get my thought process this game so far. prism if you want to pocket me just ask, ill townread anyone whose nice to me

(although you werent on the beeboy wagon? gonna have to look into that)
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Post Post #1578 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 8:59 am

Post by CantHateAPuppy »

prism, do you have a taylor case? for some reason i remember feeling something there yesterday but i dont remember rn, don't feel like reading through my iso to check my notes

pooky, i see you're on and you have a taylor scumcase too? is there a secret scumcase no one wanted to tell the puppy?
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Post Post #1579 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:03 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

if you re-read her iso it feels scummy to me.

I've been accused many times of acting in bad faith and twisting the meaning of people's words, so take a look for yourself Taylor's ISO and try to see if you can see what I mean.

If you can't I will explain why I'm scum-reading each of her actions on D1 but I don't want to cloud your own reasoning.
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Post Post #1580 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:07 am

Post by CantHateAPuppy »

ill take a look at it. is there a reason youre not voting there / voting at all?

i dunno, i just looked at the last votecount and there's actually not many people voting at all. (?) not sure why. does it make me a huge hypocrite if i say that i dont care too much who gets voted but i also dont think its good if we dont have some more discussion about it? call it my programming kicking in
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Post Post #1581 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:08 am

Post by Prism »

Reviewing redtea's meta for the 3rd/4th time I am once again unconvinced this is scum. I noted a difference in how fleshed out their reads were early in 1278 but this is pretty eh.

I took issue with Hectic's summation of redtea's slot here, particularly in the characterization of the replaceout (redtea was noticeably extremely behind on the game, and was still trying to get through the catboi/Pooky engagement that they had helped spark). I decided not to really post about it since the soft-defense/Suji stuff was valid, and the replaceout timing itself was literally true.

Looking at SIN, and then at other games though, it looks like this kind of defense is typical of redtea-town. Here are two (def Jackel) posts (def osuka, but thinks SvS theater) of redtea going very out of their way to work through and justify another player's thought process, in very similar ways.

The only game they flipped scum was in 2019, and as they note in SIN they really didn't do too hot. They basically fencesat that whole game minus a readlist with...one real read The amount of confidence they would have had this game as scum would be very impressive, given their experience with catboi playing extremely well in SIN. Buddying is plausible, but subsequently really going after catboi for leaving me out of his TRs would be very bold.

I really wish I could have asked them more on that catboi thing, though, since I remember them being fine with cat not TRing me at first.
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Post Post #1582 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:10 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

In post 1580, CantHateAPuppy wrote:ill take a look at it. is there a reason youre not voting there / voting at all?

i dunno, i just looked at the last votecount and there's actually not many people voting at all. (?) not sure why. does it make me a huge hypocrite if i say that i dont care too much who gets voted but i also dont think its good if we dont have some more discussion about it? call it my programming kicking in
I prefer to use more discussion time on today and I haven't voted because I don't think it's relevant when the more important part is reaching consensus.
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Post Post #1583 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:12 am

Post by Prism »

In post 1578, CantHateAPuppy wrote:prism, do you have a taylor case? for some reason i remember feeling something there yesterday but i dont remember rn, don't feel like reading through my iso to check my notes

pooky, i see you're on and you have a taylor scumcase too? is there a secret scumcase no one wanted to tell the puppy?
I don't really have a case, and the amount of content they've given makes it really hard to scumread them except for lack of it. Their progression on catboi was questionable-gut scum to gut town to I dunno, with no clear reason why for each swap, but that's really about it.

This vote would be more PoE to me. Sujimichi's probable scum partner would be...Lavender or myself. Maybe Pooky? I townread/lean basically everyone other than Tayl0r/Lavender...and now Chara. Tayl0r also straight up makes sense with virtually anyone, and their unwillingness to really hunt at any point in the game is very Chara.
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Post Post #1584 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:15 am

Post by Prism »

Also, I've been very intentional about not voting. I went into the day still thinking Hectic/Ele might have been SvS, and figuring that out was kind of step 1. After that I started to waffle on my redtea townread, thinking it might just be Suji/Tayl0r. I came close to just voting them and hoping someone would hammer it so we could get the flip and call it a day. Thinking about Tayl0r voting Suji made me doubt that team, and from there I've been tinfoiling Tayl0r/Chara while wondering whether I should just hammer Suji regardless.

I don't really want to vote Tayl0r until I'm sure, whether that comes from a PoE or a scumread.
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Post Post #1585 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:19 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

the ele readlist also lists taylor/redtea as "enh" for what that's worth
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It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."

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Post Post #1586 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:20 am

Post by CantHateAPuppy »

In post 1582, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:
In post 1580, CantHateAPuppy wrote:ill take a look at it. is there a reason youre not voting there / voting at all?

i dunno, i just looked at the last votecount and there's actually not many people voting at all. (?) not sure why. does it make me a huge hypocrite if i say that i dont care too much who gets voted but i also dont think its good if we dont have some more discussion about it? call it my programming kicking in
I prefer to use more discussion time on today and I haven't voted because I don't think it's relevant when the more important part is reaching consensus.
nah consensus is overrated... i want people screaming, yelling, people standing on tables kicking down chandeliers screaming "how dare you???".

(i mean ur right but I also think it's good to get people on the record now, am I right if I say that it looks like everyone is just coasting on the assumption that we catch scum today? what are even the odds of that? that's pretty lazy IMO)
In post 1583, Prism wrote:
In post 1578, CantHateAPuppy wrote:prism, do you have a taylor case? for some reason i remember feeling something there yesterday but i dont remember rn, don't feel like reading through my iso to check my notes

pooky, i see you're on and you have a taylor scumcase too? is there a secret scumcase no one wanted to tell the puppy?
I don't really have a case, and the amount of content they've given makes it really hard to scumread them except for lack of it. Their progression on catboi was questionable-gut scum to gut town to I dunno, with no clear reason why for each swap, but that's really about it.

This vote would be more PoE to me. Sujimichi's probable scum partner would be...Lavender or myself. Maybe Pooky? I townread/lean basically everyone other than Tayl0r/Lavender...and now Chara. Tayl0r also straight up makes sense with virtually anyone, and their unwillingness to really hunt at any point in the game is very Chara.
there goes my last chance to have someone do my work for me, i guess i'll look at taylor later today.

btw, why do you not have chara as obvtown? i saw you said something in the last page about chara not really pushing elements that hard, but it just doesnt seem that way to me. i dont think i woud have pushed that slot to begin with without chara making a good point about how elements was phoning it in (i think that was it?Y)
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Post Post #1587 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:20 am

Post by Morning Tweet »

In post 1581, Prism wrote:The only game they flipped scum was in 2019, and as they note in SIN they really didn't do too hot. They basically fencesat that whole game minus a readlist with...one real read The amount of confidence they would have had this game as scum would be very impressive, given their experience with catboi playing extremely well in SIN. Buddying is plausible, but subsequently really going after catboi for leaving me out of his TRs would be very bold.
holy shit that iso tho

Can you be sure that redtea would play that low volume again? You could argue this is a less extreme version of that game. Eh, it is pretty different though ig yeah

siiiiighhhhh maybe we can chuck Tayl0r for funsies. I'll think abt it more later today
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Post Post #1588 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:21 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

In post 1586, CantHateAPuppy wrote:nah consensus is overrated... i want people screaming, yelling, people standing on tables kicking down chandeliers screaming "how dare you???".
hard to do with an empty slot and a replace-in who clearly won't be emotionally attached to the game.

putting him at L-2 feels like not a great way to get him to actually play the game.
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It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."

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Post Post #1589 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:23 am

Post by CantHateAPuppy »

In post 1461, CantHateAPuppy wrote:
In post 1455, Krazy wrote:so I'll HURT: tanner and ask if anyone has a good reason to townread either swift or tanner?
i townread tanner because he is pushing stubbornly up in situations that would be easier for town to shirk back from. he's still trying to push a case on me (?) when i'm obvtown (iso my votes on the elements scum wagon from yesterday). is that a "good reason" for you?
ok pooky, if krazy gives me a good answer to this question i might unvote him. (or not)
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Post Post #1590 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:26 am

Post by Hectic »

In post 725, Isis wrote:
Spare Votecount 1.7
Hectic--------------------------

beeboy-----------------------

Chara---------------------------
(2) Chara, catboi
Prism --------------------------

PookyTheMagicalBear -------
(1) PookyTheMagicalBear
catboi--------------------------
(1) Morning Tweet
Morning Tweet----------------
(2) Tayl0r Swift, Hectic
Tayl0r Swift -------------------

Lavender ----------------------

redtea --------------------------

Tanner -------------------------

CantLynchAPuppy-------------
(1) CantLynchAPuppy
Not sparing:
- (5) Prism, Lavender, redtea, Tanner, beeboy



Fight Votecount 1.7
Hectic--------------------------
(2) Tayl0r Swift, Prism
beeboy-----------------------
(3) CantLynchAPuppy, Chara, Hectic
Chara---------------------------
(2) redtea, catboi
Prism --------------------------

PookyTheMagicalBear -------

catboi--------------------------

Morning Tweet----------------

Tayl0r Swift -------------------
(1) Morning Tweet
Lavender ----------------------
(1) Tanner
redtea --------------------------

Tanner -------------------------

CantLynchAPuppy-------------

Not Fighting:
- (3) PookyTheMagicalBear, Lavender, beeboy


"Since it was raining, the hero had to travel in a cave, since that's not rainy!"
Nahdia flickered the lights again, and the overhead sprinklers turned out, and in fact were replaced by grey stalactites. The new setting was even dimmer than before. Part of the stage formed a very thin rocky ledge next a large swath of the stage covered in black construction paper with "death" written over it in red crayon. It was harmless yet still ominous.
"Why.. why don't you go first?" catboi put a warm hand on Chara's shoulder and nudged him forward. It was several meters of ledge to get to other safe, flat part of the stage. But Chara was rather nervous about attempting to walk the ledge without any help for balance.
"Um, I'm ok over here."
"If you don't do cool things, you won't get any Nice Cream!"
"I'm not so hungry."
"Well. You could get some, and give it to me. As a tip. Don't I look so tippable now?"
Chara teetered at the start of the ledge, worried about other kinds of tipping.


With 12 alive and unspared, it takes 7 votes to make a decision.
The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2020-09-13 23:27:24) There is one deadline extension pending and not yet finalized.
In post 765, CantHateAPuppy wrote:HURT: hectic sorry :(

I still want elements but I'm willing to give that slot a ment to change my mind now that there's been a sub. Hectic is my next best bet. Maybe I need to work on some wcumreads, I mostly have townreads
In post 857, Tayl0r Swift wrote:hectic - probably town. stop being a goof though, and while i agree that deciding lavender is town rather than scum is passing on an opportunity for opportunism, it feels like a weak read
elements - beeboy hasnt really done anything to make me townread that slot (yet)
chara - am i the only one thinking chara might be scum here? chara let themself be talked into scumreading me pretty easily, and seems to float around the popular opinions a lot but never do much scumhunting
prism - prolly just town
pooky - definitely town
catboi - i still have misgivings
morning - those ears could never be scum
lavender - needs more content, in PoE
redtea - i dont remember any posts from this slot. i guess at some point i should read the iso but its not a good sign if they arent doing anything worth remembering. could just be the awolness that made me forget
tanner - prolly just town
puppy - hasnt really done much townie recently, but was a townread earlier

so that makes my PoE chara, lavender, redtea, puppy. out of those i want to HURT: chara
I thought Tayl0r was town for this. I was Ele's very viable and equally matched counterwagon, and she just stated a "probably town" read on me and switched off me, suddenly cutting the avenue to even revote me later if needed to save Ele. It's incredibly unwise as scum, and can only really be explained if scum!Tayl0r was so disconnected from the thread that she somehow thought Chara was a viable wagon - which it absolutely was not, considering one of the votes was an RVS one.
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Post Post #1591 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:27 am

Post by CantHateAPuppy »

damn nobody posted any intro questions this game huh. we really just jumped straight into mech talk about sparing (lame) and fighting (super awesome mega cool its just like mafia) huh.

krazy, it's time to GTKAS:

1) are u town or scum
2) do u prefer to play town or scum
3) what was your best game
4) coffee or tea?
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Post Post #1592 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:30 am

Post by Prism »

In post 1586, CantHateAPuppy wrote:btw, why do you not have chara as obvtown? i saw you said something in the last page about chara not really pushing elements that hard, but it just doesnt seem that way to me. i dont think i woud have pushed that slot to begin with without chara making a good point about how elements was phoning it in (i think that was it?Y)
I think that their Elements interactions are very fakeable. I was initially impressed with their interaction back in the 120s and with 160 but I think the early pressure is very plausible. There's not that much chance of it actually going through, as opposed to putting distance in the game. As mentioned before, after the 100s/200s their pressure on Elements falls off significantly and I think it's worth reviewing for you.

I think they have a very strong ISO outside that, in that multiple posts/processes seems extremely legitimate, but I'm wary, and I have some questions.

None of this is a reason to really
scumread
them though. That part of mine is a crackpot theory/hunch based almost exclusively off of Elements 410, reinforced by seeing some small threads that I want to pluck at when Chara gets here. The scumread part is absolutely insane, I question the amount of stock I put in it, and anyone else sharing my perspective is probably even crazier than me.

Why do you think they're obvtown?
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Post Post #1593 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:31 am

Post by Hectic »

Spoiler:
In post 964, beeboy wrote:
In post 857, Tayl0r Swift wrote:hectic - probably town. stop being a goof though, and while i agree that deciding lavender is town rather than scum is passing on an opportunity for opportunism, it feels like a weak read
elements - beeboy hasnt really done anything to make me townread that slot (yet)
chara - am i the only one thinking chara might be scum here? chara let themself be talked into scumreading me pretty easily, and seems to float around the popular opinions a lot but never do much scumhunting
prism - prolly just town
pooky - definitely town
catboi - i still have misgivings
morning - those ears could never be scum
lavender - needs more content, in PoE
redtea - i dont remember any posts from this slot. i guess at some point i should read the iso but its not a good sign if they arent doing anything worth remembering. could just be the awolness that made me forget
tanner - prolly just town
puppy - hasnt really done much townie recently, but was a townread earlier

so that makes my PoE chara, lavender, redtea, puppy. out of those i want to HURT: chara
Ok so I've made it my vow to at least read every post from when I've replaced in, even if I can't will myself to read from the start.

I really hate this post overall, it's literally just positioning and nothing more.
The seperation between, me, red tea, lavender is literally nothing yet I dodge the POE somehow.

I think this post has instances in which reads could be explained such as the puppy read. Like I understand not having a reasoning for a read but avoiding explaining the shift on let's say puppy is just weird to me and usually just scummy.

Chara read is really the only explained one and to be fair is the one that gets voted, but it just feels like a giant fluff post to hide having to engage Chara on a deeper level in order to smoothly place the vote.
In post 972, beeboy wrote:HEAL: Morning Tweet
HURT: Tayl0r Swift

I am fine doing either of these really?
Top to buy more time, bottom because I very much am happy with that read :)
In post 979, beeboy wrote:Prism I don't think your Hectic vote is going anywhere.
Who else are you looking at right now?

Taylor is a good idea I think.
In post 1022, beeboy wrote:
In post 857, Tayl0r Swift wrote:hectic - probably town. stop being a goof though, and while i agree that deciding lavender is town rather than scum is passing on an opportunity for opportunism, it feels like a weak read
elements - beeboy hasnt really done anything to make me townread that slot (yet)
chara - am i the only one thinking chara might be scum here? chara let themself be talked into scumreading me pretty easily, and seems to float around the popular opinions a lot but never do much scumhunting
prism - prolly just town
pooky - definitely town
catboi - i still have misgivings
morning - those ears could never be scum
lavender - needs more content, in PoE
redtea - i dont remember any posts from this slot. i guess at some point i should read the iso but its not a good sign if they arent doing anything worth remembering. could just be the awolness that made me forget
tanner - prolly just town
puppy - hasnt really done much townie recently, but was a townread earlier

so that makes my PoE chara, lavender, redtea, puppy. out of those i want to HURT: chara
In post 861, Tayl0r Swift wrote:
In post 859, Prism wrote:Hey Taylor, really glad to see you collect your reads like that. I get some of your misgivings on catboi, but can you expound on why you shifted to thinking overeager town awhile back?

It seems like the scumread was more gutreaction to Pooky, but I'm curious as to what you were thinking as you read.
i dont know if i could really articulate my read on catboi. actually ive kinda proven that i cant. theres just something there i dont like.

i guess catboi and beeboy are also in PoE.
In post 869, Tayl0r Swift wrote:im down for a beeboy wagon

@Hectic the progression throughout these 3 posts is what I view as scum indicative.
It feels very fast and all in response to posts that reference me, like "ah yes guess I will miselim this town if you all insist."

There's also beeboy hard pushing Tayl0r ever since replacing in. Do scum really think their situation is so dire that they need to bus given how bad an idea it is in this setup? I doubt it.
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Post Post #1594 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:34 am

Post by Prism »

That votecount is interesting Hectic. The Tayl0r post you quoted is actually why my crackpot theory was Tayl0r as Chara and Chara as the other mafia.

I think you make a good point, though, in cutting off the wagon on you. I'll think on it and check over the gamestate around that time.
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Post Post #1595 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:34 am

Post by CantHateAPuppy »

crackpot theory. scum bussed hard knowing the chara would flip anyways so it would just look extra town.

i know that theory would invalidate half my townreads. but. since we're talking about it anyways
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Post Post #1596 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:37 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

In post 1590, Hectic wrote:I thought Tayl0r was town for this. I was Ele's very viable and equally matched counterwagon, and she just stated a "probably town" read on me and switched off me, suddenly cutting the avenue to even revote me later if needed to save Ele. It's incredibly unwise as scum, and can only really be explained if scum!Tayl0r was so disconnected from the thread that she somehow thought Chara was a viable wagon - which it absolutely was not, considering one of the votes was an RVS one.
I scrolled back from this point in time and found this VC:
In post 725, Isis wrote:Hectic-------------------------- (2) Tayl0r Swift, Prism
beeboy----------------------- (3) CantLynchAPuppy, Chara, Hectic
Chara--------------------------- (2) redtea, catboi

seems like she is consolidating from 1 counter-wagon to another to save beeboy?
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Post Post #1597 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:38 am

Post by Prism »

(ie. the fact that it wasn't actually viable is what made me immediately look more at Chara for a plausible partner...and I've been ruined ever since)

I've thought a lot about the beeboy push. I think either way is plausible but consider it a bit +town for Tayl0r, and was a big part of why I said "Eh, maybe it is just Sujimichi". I can see Tayl0r/beeboy/several players, though, and I can't see anything for Suji other than Lavender.

I think you'll also find 497 +town from Tayl0r, while you're rereading.
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Post Post #1598 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:39 am

Post by Hectic »

In post 1596, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:seems like she is consolidating from 1 counter-wagon to another to save beeboy?
I was on 3 votes (all of them being serious), while Chara was on 2 votes (one of them being RVS) when she moved to Chara, Pooky. I quoted the VC + Launchy vote one me in the earlier post.
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Post Post #1599 (ISO) » Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:39 am

Post by Prism »

In post 1596, PookyTheMagicalBear wrote:seems like she is consolidating from 1 counter-wagon to another to save beeboy?
That's actually why Hectic quoted 765. Puppy swaps from beeboy to Hectic, making it 3 for Hectic, 2 for beeboy, and 2 for Chara.

And then Tayl0r votes Chara.
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