Mini Normal 2168 | So Many Bats! | Game Over!

[duppin]

awful play? damn man, you're making it hard for me to like you. i think being wary of me is fine. i'm not going to say anything further about my role - less info for scum is definitely better in the circumcision.

that's fair the phrasing might be harsh and ill most likely apologise for it post game, but it is really frustrating to me. You refuse to evaluate my slot and you are trying to force a mislim on me through your claim. I'm not attacking you personally, I think everyone has played bad games and you are free to argue I have played a bad one here as well, my i think you have had a poor entrance if you are town not because of you not having proper reads yet which I said i understand given you replaced into the spam, but more so the way you approached your push

[Battle Mage]

pretty scummy my dude.

YOUR CASE IS SHIT

calm down dear lol

it's nothing to do with my case - you should explain your own oscillation between defending and attacking duppin.

[Battle Mage]

Literally the only reason i haven't been death tunneling you right now is your PR claim BM. Don't test my patience.

i couldn't care less what you do. I wasn't counting on you to do anything other than blindly tunnel me as soon as I replaced in. To the extent you can manage more than that, I'll be impressed and happy.

[Battle Mage]

awful play? damn man, you're making it hard for me to like you. i think being wary of me is fine. i'm not going to say anything further about my role - less info for scum is definitely better in the circumcision.

that's fair the phrasing might be harsh and ill most likely apologise for it post game, but it is really frustrating to me. You refuse to evaluate my slot and you are trying to force a mislim on me through your claim. I'm not attacking you personally, I think everyone has played bad games and you are free to argue I have played a bad one here as well, my i think you have had a poor entrance if you are town not because of you not having proper reads yet which I said i understand given you replaced into the spam, but more so the way you approached your push

I think the fact we have 100+ pages and no consensus and limited info on Day 1 is a failure on the part of everybody, including myself, regardless of alignment.

I don't think I could have done much differently with the entrance. It has only gone the way it has because of Noraa and Norweg having personal problems with me which aren't related to anything in this game, and the Saudade slot being vulnerable because it didn't post much.

[Hectic]

Btw Hectic, you wouldn’t be so mean as to try to pocket me this game right?
We’re too good friends for that right?

What do you mean? I was told friends were supposed to pocket each other.

Up to this post, I think BM is probably town and his "to be honest" case is uh, something I've seen he likes to do as town. He once tried to get me launched in a newbie game for the use of "concerning" and "worries me". I was town.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I think the fact we have 100+ pages and no consensus and limited info on Day 1 is a failure on the part of everybody, including myself, regardless of alignment.

Well i have been trying to get an elimination all this time but here we are.

[duppin]

okay tbh once again i am honestly going to be honest since honesty is important

no okay but seriously i have to leave in a couple of hours and wont be back till tomorrow so i just want to make it very clear that I am town and I find this incredibly frustrating and actually not very enjoyable. I am supposed to defend myself against absolutely nothing.
He refuses to present a case on me so not only is it impossible for me to get a proper read on him but it's also a waste of time trying to engage him since he has already admitted that he is just tunneling at this point.

He has not provided a single actual reason for why he believes i am suspicious. He claims my ISO is so scummy that he apparatenly can't even make a case and that me saying I am honest is so incredibly scummy even though I clearly do it as either alignment so it means absoloutely nothing plus he also doesnt want to back up why he thinks it would even be a scumtell even though he suggests he often catches players like this.

i am sure someone will claim this is me being scum being frustrated at being caught by virtually nothing but no thats not the case, this is town me being frustrated by a really awful push. no reasons given, refuses to provide explanations when engaged, if i get mislimmed today then id tell town to be very wary of the players doing a 180 on me due to this push, if a town does a 180 on me then shame on them honestly thats just poor play

Although i admire the effort and emotion, you'd be better off spending your time actually making a case on somebody you think is scum.

but this is why ive been trying to solve your slot but you refuse to explain your reads giving me nothing to work with.

I've listed my reads and my current vote is on Plus. I think plus is suspicious, I think you are but your claim makes me not want to vote on you today, I still find redados suspicious but he isn't around and I think mundivore is suspicious as well

mate you dont need to solve my slot, I'm town, and I think that ship has sailed for today anyway. Assume I'm town, and work with that.

I'd be happy to look at a mundivore case from you?

oh I'm not going to lie I actually find it a bit well annoying i guess that youre telling me to assume your town when you have shown no interest in even entertaining the idea I could be town

As for Mundivore I've explained why I'm suspicious of the slot and I genuinely think it would be easier for you to ISO me but overall:
what they did early game was really skethcy, they claimed to townread your slot(which in itself I thought was suspicious because i dont think your slot had done anything to warrant a townread) but still voted on it. When I asked them about it I thought their response was okay though, but the overall play was still really weird.
their read on me did not align with their other reads at all
and then just because i feel several players were projecting town rather well so i think it was very likely at least one scum was coasting by

[Battle Mage]

but I have already shared my reads and listed my townblock but given that i think is suspicious for someone to do a 180 on me given the case you have presented i think it would be misleading for me to potentially townread a slot especially since im going to flip town if you mislim me

i mean this feels like an argument for you scumreading Norweg, but you haven't been so bold....yet.

Because this is just happening and I prefer to give him the chance to explain himself

I mean you're better off giving town an alternative aren't you? I'm pretty cool with competing Norweg and duppin wagons to give us a bit more info. At least part of your issue currently is there isn't any viable option other than flipping you.

I think Norweg's behaviour towards you - initially defending hard, then voting to see if it would go anywhere, then backtracking when it didn't immediately result in an elim, could arguably be seen as a bit scummy. Especially if you're town perhaps.

but there are alternatives like plus, mundivore, redados and whatever. I think these are all better alternatives to Norwee.
I don't want competing wagons between me and Norwee because while agree with you that what he did was a bad look I still find his overall play to be town. I also definitely don't want you to control who the competing wagons should be because as I said your reads seem to be almost opposite mine, you just replaced in so you havent been able to read the game and eveyrone properly yet, you havent really explained any of your reads plus you believe i am the "most obvious scum ever". Why should I have any faith in your reads at this point no matter what your alignment is?

I'm not interested in any of those, except maybe Mundivore. I don't mind if you trust my reads or not. I think you need to create a viable counter-wagon to yourself, and the fact you aren't doing so is really odd. It's self-defeating.

and also it hurts me to say this but if i do get mislimmed i dont want people to automatically lim BM tomorrow even if he fails to prove himself in the night (obviously depends on his claim, but he could be roleblocked and whatever if he is town) because there is a chance he is just being a bad townie at the moment. just to clarify i am not saying him scumreading me makes him a bad townie, i am saying his tunneling, refusal to explain and sticking to awful reasoning is what makes him a bad townie if he is town

I'm not being a bad townie dude. I have a suspicion, I'm pushing it through. Even if I'm wrong, according to your definition there are others in this game who have also been "bad townies" for pushing people without putting forward a case which can be refuted (like, everybody who suspected me for starters).

I can definitely concede I'm not being the most virile version of BM here. So let's just leave it there, rather than throwing shade.

I disagree. If you are town then i genuinely think you are being a bad townie. As I said I don't think you are being a bad townie by scumreading or pushing on me, I think you are being a bad townie because you refuse to explain your read on me. Like I said if you are so dead set on me being scum yet don't want to present a case on me, then it would make way more sense for you to try to convince people i am scum by making an actual case. You already claimed you have read my whole ISO and if I am the most obvious scum you have ever seen surely it would be simple for you to point out what you think makes me scum. Add to the fact that if you are town then you are essentially tunneling hard on another townie but refusing to work with him by not trying to explain your logic or reasoning which would help me and everyone else get a better read on you. It comes across as you trying to push through a lim by claiming pr - the only reasons Norwee and and shelly voted on me was because of your pr claim, not because of your actual case. It's just bad play overall in my opinion because youre not really getting people to take actual stances, not trying to engage, not trying to open for discussion but just telling people to sheep you because of "your gut" (which is wrong) because you claim you can confirm yourself as PR. It is day 1, I really stand by my statement that if you are town then I think you are being a bad town at the moment[/quote]

I think if you want to complain about people not taking actual stances, you need to be more pro-active yourself and give people something to talk about other than "is duppin scum?". I have been very supportive of a counter-wagon, but it would need to be someone who I think has a good chance of flipping red.

I'm curious as to how this game got so long? Who benefits from that? my own musings...

[Hectic]

VOTE: Duppin
Well the spotlight is now on you.

Looking forward to an response.

actually I had not even noticed you had voted on me yet, so could you explain this? you townread me and scumread his slot, he presents a meta read on me that you refute yet you still vote me

He claimed he would be confirmed PR. That puts the pressure on him, if you flip town and he can't prove his role tommorow he is likely confirmed scum.

This is a bad idea outside of the confirmable PR thing, BM can very easily be wrong town here.

[duppin]

awful play? damn man, you're making it hard for me to like you. i think being wary of me is fine. i'm not going to say anything further about my role - less info for scum is definitely better in the circumcision.

that's fair the phrasing might be harsh and ill most likely apologise for it post game, but it is really frustrating to me. You refuse to evaluate my slot and you are trying to force a mislim on me through your claim. I'm not attacking you personally, I think everyone has played bad games and you are free to argue I have played a bad one here as well, my i think you have had a poor entrance if you are town not because of you not having proper reads yet which I said i understand given you replaced into the spam, but more so the way you approached your push

I think the fact we have 100+ pages and no consensus and limited info on Day 1 is a failure on the part of everybody, including myself, regardless of alignment.

I don't think I could have done much differently with the entrance. It has only gone the way it has because of Noraa and Norweg having personal problems with me which aren't related to anything in this game, and the Saudade slot being vulnerable because it didn't post much.

I think you could, I think you could have put more effort into explaining your reads. I understand that its not fun to catch up in a game with this much spam, but you threw out a lot of reads and came across as very confident with very ltitle explanation and a clear indication that you hadnt really caught up to the game yet which is obviously understandable. You tunneled reads and was not trying to solve. I agree that we are close to deadline so obviously we should try to push for a lim, but trying to force a lim by saying youre a tpr and that you are willing to trade yourself is not a good entrance in my opinion. So the tunneling behaviour, dismissal of others, refusing to explain reads, using a soft pr claim and wifom (willing to trade) to push a lim through is what bothers me personally

[Battle Mage]

Btw Hectic, you wouldn’t be so mean as to try to pocket me this game right?
We’re too good friends for that right?

What do you mean? I was told friends were supposed to pocket each other.

Up to this post, I think BM is probably town and his "to be honest" case is uh, something I've seen he likes to do as town. He once tried to get me launched in a newbie game for the use of "concerning" and "worries me". I was town.

ah but in fairness to me:

A. I tried to pressure you, but never actually followed through on launching you.
B. We both won easily.

[Battle Mage]

awful play? damn man, you're making it hard for me to like you. i think being wary of me is fine. i'm not going to say anything further about my role - less info for scum is definitely better in the circumcision.

that's fair the phrasing might be harsh and ill most likely apologise for it post game, but it is really frustrating to me. You refuse to evaluate my slot and you are trying to force a mislim on me through your claim. I'm not attacking you personally, I think everyone has played bad games and you are free to argue I have played a bad one here as well, my i think you have had a poor entrance if you are town not because of you not having proper reads yet which I said i understand given you replaced into the spam, but more so the way you approached your push

I think the fact we have 100+ pages and no consensus and limited info on Day 1 is a failure on the part of everybody, including myself, regardless of alignment.

I don't think I could have done much differently with the entrance. It has only gone the way it has because of Noraa and Norweg having personal problems with me which aren't related to anything in this game, and the Saudade slot being vulnerable because it didn't post much.

I think you could, I think you could have put more effort into explaining your reads. I understand that its not fun to catch up in a game with this much spam, but you threw out a lot of reads and came across as very confident with very ltitle explanation and a clear indication that you hadnt really caught up to the game yet which is obviously understandable. You tunneled reads and was not trying to solve. I agree that we are close to deadline so obviously we should try to push for a lim, but trying to force a lim by saying youre a tpr and that you are willing to trade yourself is not a good entrance in my opinion. So the tunneling behaviour, dismissal of others, refusing to explain reads, using a soft pr claim and wifom (willing to trade) to push a lim through is what bothers me personally

what can I say? I have a bias towards a lynch chosen by me without any influence from scum. I doubt scum are that excited to bus each other after 100 freakin' pages.

[duppin]

I think if you want to complain about people not taking actual stances, you need to be more pro-active yourself and give people something to talk about other than "is duppin scum?". I have been very supportive of a counter-wagon, but it would need to be someone who I think has a good chance of flipping red.

I'm curious as to how this game got so long? Who benefits from that? my own musings...

sure thats valid criticism, but my point is more so that I am already on a counter wagon (plus), you disagree with the read which is fair but i dont think you can argue that i need to be pro active and push a counter wagon while also dismissing it all if you dont agree with the wagon itself. I am not saying I wish to push this wagon as of right now though, instead what i will say is that you also have to understand how annoying it is to have someone try to force a lim on you by claming he can confirm himself as pr and is willing to trade himself and nothing else

[Hectic]

Hey, BM, you normally actually do the meta on these kind of cases. You looked at the rate of my usage of "worries" and "concerns" in that newbie game. Why are you choosing to ignore evidence which suggests your case is completely invalid, or look into it yourself?

[Hectic]

lets do a popcorn giving readslists

@duppin your turn, take as long as you’d like, im off with some RL stuff for half an hour

Let's not. Especislly not right before a night phase where scum can use the information to make better nightkills.

[Battle Mage]

Hey, BM, you normally actually do the meta on these kind of cases. You looked at the rate of my usage of "worries" and "concerns" in that newbie game. Why are you choosing to ignore evidence which suggests your case is completely invalid, or look into it yourself?

effort man - unlike in your case where that was my only real argument, in this case it's one of many, and so doing a meta analysis ain't worth it.

[Battle Mage]

lets do a popcorn giving readslists

@duppin your turn, take as long as you’d like, im off with some RL stuff for half an hour

Let's not. Especislly not right before a night phase where scum can use the information to make better nightkills.

we've got a bunch of claimed PRs dude. I don't think scum are NKing based on some readslists

[duppin]

Hey, BM, you normally actually do the meta on these kind of cases. You looked at the rate of my usage of "worries" and "concerns" in that newbie game. Why are you choosing to ignore evidence which suggests your case is completely invalid, or look into it yourself?

effort man - unlike in your case where that was my only real argument, in this case it's one of many, and so doing a meta analysis ain't worth it.

but why are you not willing to present any of these many arguments then?

[Battle Mage]

I think if you want to complain about people not taking actual stances, you need to be more pro-active yourself and give people something to talk about other than "is duppin scum?". I have been very supportive of a counter-wagon, but it would need to be someone who I think has a good chance of flipping red.

I'm curious as to how this game got so long? Who benefits from that? my own musings...

sure thats valid criticism, but my point is more so that I am already on a counter wagon (plus), you disagree with the read which is fair but i dont think you can argue that i need to be pro active and push a counter wagon while also dismissing it all if you dont agree with the wagon itself. I am not saying I wish to push this wagon as of right now though, instead what i will say is that you also have to understand how annoying it is to have someone try to force a lim on you by claming he can confirm himself as pr and is willing to trade himself and nothing else

i think its fine for me to suggest you come up with a viable alternative to your elim.

[Hectic]

Hey, BM, you normally actually do the meta on these kind of cases. You looked at the rate of my usage of "worries" and "concerns" in that newbie game. Why are you choosing to ignore evidence which suggests your case is completely invalid, or look into it yourself?

effort man - unlike in your case where that was my only real argument, in this case it's one of many, and so doing a meta analysis ain't worth it.

If it's one of many, give the other arguments. You're fine with arguing with others for hours on end, but you're not bothered to put the effort in to case the other reasons?

[Battle Mage]

Hey, BM, you normally actually do the meta on these kind of cases. You looked at the rate of my usage of "worries" and "concerns" in that newbie game. Why are you choosing to ignore evidence which suggests your case is completely invalid, or look into it yourself?

effort man - unlike in your case where that was my only real argument, in this case it's one of many, and so doing a meta analysis ain't worth it.

but why are you not willing to present any of these many arguments then?

i've commented on some of them - maybe you missed them, or maybe you ignored them. I'm not indulging this further as not helpful.

[Battle Mage]

Hey, BM, you normally actually do the meta on these kind of cases. You looked at the rate of my usage of "worries" and "concerns" in that newbie game. Why are you choosing to ignore evidence which suggests your case is completely invalid, or look into it yourself?

effort man - unlike in your case where that was my only real argument, in this case it's one of many, and so doing a meta analysis ain't worth it.

If it's one of many, give the other arguments. You're fine with arguing with others for hours on end, but you're not bothered to put the effort in to case the other reasons?

that is exactly right

i'm basically ready to end the day if nothing else is going to happen

[Hectic]

The combat wizard has arrived. Everyone brace for impact.

[duppin]

I think if you want to complain about people not taking actual stances, you need to be more pro-active yourself and give people something to talk about other than "is duppin scum?". I have been very supportive of a counter-wagon, but it would need to be someone who I think has a good chance of flipping red.

I'm curious as to how this game got so long? Who benefits from that? my own musings...

sure thats valid criticism, but my point is more so that I am already on a counter wagon (plus), you disagree with the read which is fair but i dont think you can argue that i need to be pro active and push a counter wagon while also dismissing it all if you dont agree with the wagon itself. I am not saying I wish to push this wagon as of right now though, instead what i will say is that you also have to understand how annoying it is to have someone try to force a lim on you by claming he can confirm himself as pr and is willing to trade himself and nothing else

i think its fine for me to suggest you come up with a viable alternative to your elim.

i think so too, but i dont think its fine to claim i am not doing so just because you disagree with the read. i dont trust you or have faith in your reads, yet you also claim you are only willing to entertain a counter wagon if it is on one of your own reads which obviously makes sense, but that does not mean i dont want to lim someone else. I also think its odd for you to suggest that it is defeatist of me not to propose anotehr wagon i mean i suppose it could be, but i think its rather obvious that i am actually trying to put in an effort and if you think it makes more sense for me to scum to go on a rant instead of trying to push a lim then i am not sure why you believe that to be the case.

it just so happens that we both find mundivore suspicious, but if i am the most obvious scum ever and your top scum read why would you want a counterwagon?

[Battle Mage]

i'm surprised that the conversation is so focussed on me not making a case on duppin, rather than what others actually think themselves. in many ways, what i do doesn't really matter so much in the context of this game. i'm obvtown, but ofc i could be wrong in my suspicions. so you either go with me, or find your own way. it is super easy!