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[Battle Mage]

You also say Taylor gives minimal info.

I disagree. We have multiple people who have jumped onto the slot, and multiple wagons to look at.

There’s a lot of info to be gained from a Taylor wagon.

And you best get used to accepting it, because really it’s just gonna turn to you.

You guys are playing a weird cooperative survivalistic game whilst still trying to stay distancing.

You’re also choosing to ignore basic wagonomics and push it like you have no idea why you’re being pushed.

Cuz you’re the only one who sees it that way

its clear from your posts dude, even though you protest you aren't assuming i'm scum, you are. And it appears to be a key assumption in your Taylor-scum scenario. Which means you don't have much of a case on anybody.

i'm not really getting pushed at all - i'm getting railroaded by you, and the classic Taylor-tunnel. I guess maybe you thought I'd be a soft target who wouldn't point out weaknesses in your logic?

it's a bad gamestate for town with 1 person determining everything that happens - regardless of your alignment. The logical weaknesses on top of that make it worse. You can disagree with me on anything, and I'll respect your right to be wrong.

[Flavor Leaf]

Frankly, if you are town, you will now start to obstruct my view of scum hunting, and i am very much okay with sacrificial townies when need be, so it really doesn’t matter to me right now if you’re scum or town. This will be a discussion to analyze for later since I’m currently fine with Taylor wagon.

[Flavor Leaf]

You also say Taylor gives minimal info.

I disagree. We have multiple people who have jumped onto the slot, and multiple wagons to look at.

There’s a lot of info to be gained from a Taylor wagon.

And you best get used to accepting it, because really it’s just gonna turn to you.

You guys are playing a weird cooperative survivalistic game whilst still trying to stay distancing.

You’re also choosing to ignore basic wagonomics and push it like you have no idea why you’re being pushed.

Cuz you’re the only one who sees it that way

its clear from your posts dude, even though you protest you aren't assuming i'm scum, you are. And it appears to be a key assumption in your Taylor-scum scenario. Which means you don't have much of a case on anybody.

i'm not really getting pushed at all - i'm getting railroaded by you, and the classic Taylor-tunnel. I guess maybe you thought I'd be a soft target who wouldn't point out weaknesses in your logic?

it's a bad gamestate for town with 1 person determining everything that happens - regardless of your alignment. The logical weaknesses on top of that make it worse. You can disagree with me on anything, and I'll respect your right to be wrong.

Nah, Taylor is scum over you. You just have your own individual stuff that makes Taylor scum even more likely.

I just say my thoughts.

People don’t have to follow me.

I don’t mind people “calling me out” because I can always back up my arguments, and I know when to drop certain stuff. I got the gift of gab, baby.

Which logical weakness are you talking about exactly?

I gave my thoughts, and people seemed to agree and sheep me. They even stated me as likely town.

So no matter what, this is beneficial to town because I was a complete null slot for people, and now people are actively town reading the slot.

As a townie, that’s exactly what I need to do. I have explained my thought process, pretty completely.

You just are scum or town who can’t comprehend it, whether you are choosing not to because of sensitive to being scum read is the question.

[Battle Mage]

Fade Taylor, Vig Battle Mage, easy money

sounds like scumtalk to me

are you vigging me because i'm explaining weaknesses in your argument?

I’m not arguing one bit here. I’m stating possible outcomes.

It’s just really not gonna work in your favor, man. There’s people in this game that have seen my unorthodox style and seen my use it to solve games, if you’re scum, you picked the wrong path to go down.

....yeah except i'm not scum. I'm town looking at your "unorthodox style" and thinking that it's logically flawed, not conducive to solving anything, and regardless of your alignment likely to hurt town. and this is coming from Battle Mage - I'm hardly the world's greatest scumhunter myself.
Although with respect, if I was scum, you'd never be able to catch me.

Let me turn the question back round. If you are town, could you consider taking a step back and re-evaluating your own reads, taking account of your evident bias at this point? As it's clear to me that you've chosen the wrong path to go down.

[Flavor Leaf]

And that’s how I push and cause discussion, similar to now. I say a lot of possible hypothetical situations and essentially bring up every option, and then I filter out the ones that get shown to not make sense over time.

This has caused a good amount of discussion already. Beneficial

[Flavor Leaf]

Fade Taylor, Vig Battle Mage, easy money

sounds like scumtalk to me

are you vigging me because i'm explaining weaknesses in your argument?

I’m not arguing one bit here. I’m stating possible outcomes.

It’s just really not gonna work in your favor, man. There’s people in this game that have seen my unorthodox style and seen my use it to solve games, if you’re scum, you picked the wrong path to go down.

....yeah except i'm not scum. I'm town looking at your "unorthodox style" and thinking that it's logically flawed, not conducive to solving anything, and regardless of your alignment likely to hurt town. and this is coming from Battle Mage - I'm hardly the world's greatest scumhunter myself.
Although with respect, if I was scum, you'd never be able to catch me.

Let me turn the question back round. If you are town, could you consider taking a step back and re-evaluating your own reads, taking account of your evident bias at this point? As it's clear to me that you've chosen the wrong path to go down.

Yep, and if you are town, continue doing what you are doing. I’m sure it will help.

There’s a reason I moved to T swizzle instead of you, after all. Because I saw the potential of you being town.

I already have re-evaluated my reads.

My reads are always extremely fluid, so i don’t understand the take a step back comment.

I was voting you earlier, and now I switched votes. That is the definition of reevaluating.

Me, having a wrong read on you, is not choosing the wrong path to go down. That is playing the game and trying to town read everyone as best as I can.

[Battle Mage]

Frankly, if you are town, you will now start to obstruct my view of scum hunting, and i am very much okay with sacrificial townies when need be, so it really doesn’t matter to me right now if you’re scum or town. This will be a discussion to analyze for later since I’m currently fine with Taylor wagon.

on the contrary, if you're town, consider this a helpful intervention to stop you mis-elimming me. or mis-elimming other people on the grounds they might be my partner

perhaps you should consider me being town as a prompt to look at your reads once more.

[Flavor Leaf]

Although with respect, if I was scum, you'd never be able to catch me.

Lol.

Not a single scum player on this planet is this true for me.

[Flavor Leaf]

Frankly, if you are town, you will now start to obstruct my view of scum hunting, and i am very much okay with sacrificial townies when need be, so it really doesn’t matter to me right now if you’re scum or town. This will be a discussion to analyze for later since I’m currently fine with Taylor wagon.

on the contrary, if you're town, consider this a helpful intervention to stop you mis-elimming me. or mis-elimming other people on the grounds they might be my partner

perhaps you should consider me being town as a prompt to look at your reads once more.

You need to read more carefully. Just because I push someone as scum doesn’t even mean i think they are scum. Look at Gamma. I think you have scum equity, so I pushed a possible scenario that I thought could be likely.

If you are town, then you shouldn’t have to worry so much.

[Battle Mage]

Fade Taylor, Vig Battle Mage, easy money

sounds like scumtalk to me

are you vigging me because i'm explaining weaknesses in your argument?

I’m not arguing one bit here. I’m stating possible outcomes.

It’s just really not gonna work in your favor, man. There’s people in this game that have seen my unorthodox style and seen my use it to solve games, if you’re scum, you picked the wrong path to go down.

....yeah except i'm not scum. I'm town looking at your "unorthodox style" and thinking that it's logically flawed, not conducive to solving anything, and regardless of your alignment likely to hurt town. and this is coming from Battle Mage - I'm hardly the world's greatest scumhunter myself.
Although with respect, if I was scum, you'd never be able to catch me.

Let me turn the question back round. If you are town, could you consider taking a step back and re-evaluating your own reads, taking account of your evident bias at this point? As it's clear to me that you've chosen the wrong path to go down.

Yep, and if you are town, continue doing what you are doing. I’m sure it will help.

There’s a reason I moved to T swizzle instead of you, after all. Because I saw the potential of you being town.

I already have re-evaluated my reads.

My reads are always extremely fluid, so i don’t understand the take a step back comment.

I was voting you earlier, and now I switched votes. That is the definition of reevaluating.

Me, having a wrong read on you, is not choosing the wrong path to go down. That is playing the game and trying to town read everyone as best as I can.

as noted previously, you obviously haven't re-evaluated your read on me at all. thinking taylor is an easier elim is not the same thing.

[Flavor Leaf]

Misreading a townie is not a bad thing. That’s literally the name of the game and Mafia’s job to make town do.

It’s playing against the mafia team that matters in the end and coming to the correct conclusions by the end.

[Battle Mage]

Frankly, if you are town, you will now start to obstruct my view of scum hunting, and i am very much okay with sacrificial townies when need be, so it really doesn’t matter to me right now if you’re scum or town. This will be a discussion to analyze for later since I’m currently fine with Taylor wagon.

on the contrary, if you're town, consider this a helpful intervention to stop you mis-elimming me. or mis-elimming other people on the grounds they might be my partner

perhaps you should consider me being town as a prompt to look at your reads once more.

You need to read more carefully. Just because I push someone as scum doesn’t even mean i think they are scum. Look at Gamma. I think you have scum equity, so I pushed a possible scenario that I thought could be likely.

If you are town, then you shouldn’t have to worry so much.

as town i always worry about the possibility of loud scum taking over the dayphase. balance is better.

i think you should take your own advice on reading more carefully!

[Battle Mage]

Although with respect, if I was scum, you'd never be able to catch me.

Lol.

Not a single scum player on this planet is this true for me.

cute

[JohnnyFarrar]

You two should kiss. This is clogging up the thread like shelly

[Battle Mage]

You also say Taylor gives minimal info.

I disagree. We have multiple people who have jumped onto the slot, and multiple wagons to look at.

There’s a lot of info to be gained from a Taylor wagon.

And you best get used to accepting it, because really it’s just gonna turn to you.

You guys are playing a weird cooperative survivalistic game whilst still trying to stay distancing.

You’re also choosing to ignore basic wagonomics and push it like you have no idea why you’re being pushed.

Cuz you’re the only one who sees it that way

its clear from your posts dude, even though you protest you aren't assuming i'm scum, you are. And it appears to be a key assumption in your Taylor-scum scenario. Which means you don't have much of a case on anybody.

i'm not really getting pushed at all - i'm getting railroaded by you, and the classic Taylor-tunnel. I guess maybe you thought I'd be a soft target who wouldn't point out weaknesses in your logic?

it's a bad gamestate for town with 1 person determining everything that happens - regardless of your alignment. The logical weaknesses on top of that make it worse. You can disagree with me on anything, and I'll respect your right to be wrong.

Nah, Taylor is scum over you. You just have your own individual stuff that makes Taylor scum even more likely.

I just say my thoughts.

People don’t have to follow me.

I don’t mind people “calling me out” because I can always back up my arguments, and I know when to drop certain stuff. I got the gift of gab, baby.

Which logical weakness are you talking about exactly?

I gave my thoughts, and people seemed to agree and sheep me. They even stated me as likely town.

So no matter what, this is beneficial to town because I was a complete null slot for people, and now people are actively town reading the slot.

As a townie, that’s exactly what I need to do. I have explained my thought process, pretty completely.

You just are scum or town who can’t comprehend it, whether you are choosing not to because of sensitive to being scum read is the question.

very cute! have you considered people sheeping you might be scum, happy that you are leading the town to 1 or more mis-elims? or is it more important for your mafia ego to blindly assume they are town?

[Flavor Leaf]

Fade Taylor, Vig Battle Mage, easy money

sounds like scumtalk to me

are you vigging me because i'm explaining weaknesses in your argument?

I’m not arguing one bit here. I’m stating possible outcomes.

It’s just really not gonna work in your favor, man. There’s people in this game that have seen my unorthodox style and seen my use it to solve games, if you’re scum, you picked the wrong path to go down.

....yeah except i'm not scum. I'm town looking at your "unorthodox style" and thinking that it's logically flawed, not conducive to solving anything, and regardless of your alignment likely to hurt town. and this is coming from Battle Mage - I'm hardly the world's greatest scumhunter myself.
Although with respect, if I was scum, you'd never be able to catch me.

Let me turn the question back round. If you are town, could you consider taking a step back and re-evaluating your own reads, taking account of your evident bias at this point? As it's clear to me that you've chosen the wrong path to go down.

Yep, and if you are town, continue doing what you are doing. I’m sure it will help.

There’s a reason I moved to T swizzle instead of you, after all. Because I saw the potential of you being town.

I already have re-evaluated my reads.

My reads are always extremely fluid, so i don’t understand the take a step back comment.

I was voting you earlier, and now I switched votes. That is the definition of reevaluating.

Me, having a wrong read on you, is not choosing the wrong path to go down. That is playing the game and trying to town read everyone as best as I can.

as noted previously, you obviously haven't re-evaluated your read on me at all. thinking taylor is an easier elim is not the same thing.

Frankly, I don’t care.

I want Taylor right now. I have already re-evaluated you as a slot once I didn’t feel like you were the best way to go right now. I needed to see more.

You are a lean scum read. That does not make you scum. I don’t Town read you, so while I’ll look into possibilities, changing my read and reevaluating can come together, they don’t have to.

Taylor is scum based on her interactions Day 1 for me. How every time somewhere gained momentum she made sure to actively choose the opposite. I also believe 1 scum off the wagon, and she’s 1 of 4, and I town read others off the wagon.

So you thinking Taylor is nothing more than a policy lynch when that couldn’t be further from the truth

I also mentioned how I specifically think Taylor was the scum who was protected since we know there is a Mafia Doc based on the setup info. This is proven that Golden wasn’t doctor’s last night, and the fact Golden didn’t flip doc. 1 of the remaining scum is a doctor. The other one was likely doctored last night, who I think was Taylor.

So you acting like Taylor is a policy looks like you are scum partners who is trying to discredit the Taylor wagon, and make FL vs BM look like TvT.

I have re-evaluated. Every post I read of yours my read gets more and more complex. I’m not town reading you, and you still fit in the POE nicely, and have a scum motivation to your play that would work in the game narrative that I think is happening.

I will constantly look for ways I am wrong, and like I said, if I’m wrong on 1 of you 2, i feel I’m wrong on you.

[Battle Mage]

i hope nobody minds if I take the next couple of dayphases off? flavor leaf has it all under control apparently. and it would be too much effort to convince him or anyone else otherwise

[Flavor Leaf]

Although with respect, if I was scum, you'd never be able to catch me.

Lol.

Not a single scum player on this planet is this true for me.

cute

I just understand how to play scum way too well on a mechanical and theoretical level. Here, I wrote a guide on it. Maybe you could use it this game.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=84028

[Flavor Leaf]

Notice the nitpicking nature of BM’s discrediting style. Anything relating wagonomics and the weight of the wagon momentum got completely ignored.

[JohnnyFarrar]

I did notice. Now stop bickering before no one reads the rest of this game

[Flavor Leaf]

Eh, I personally think the past couple pages are really strong and beneficial.

[MiniMegabyte]

Spoiler:

So like I'm clearly seeing bitterness here and I don't follow the BM suspicion here as easily as I do the taylor, but BM is there a point to this bitterness? Are you actually accusing Flavor of being scum here or just wrong?

No bitterness man, it's just a bit lame whenever someone is spamming the thread tunnelling you for no reason, but presenting it as if they are scumhunting.

I suppose I'm accusing him of being unclear in terms of the reasons for his suspicions, failing to make an active effort to engage with me, and instead spamming the thread with either propaganda of "BM is scum", or making further hypotheses which rely on the false presumption that I'm scum, all of which are unhelpful and not pro-town.

I think my only previous game with Flavor Leaf he declared he "didn't do Day 1", and then died N1. But he's reputed as a good player. This is not good stuff, so yeah I'm gonna go with possible scum.

I see you hedged your own bets above, so appears you are not averse to elimming me? do tell me why

VOTE: Flavor Leaf

I'm not sold on Taylor-scum, but fine flipping her to keep the game moving. At least with taylor, she tunnels me but is perfectly clear that she is doing it baselessly.

So what makes you think he couldnt simply be a town player who is wrongly scum reading you. As such things will happen to any players.

i havent said, or even insinuated, that it isn't possible he is town. I'm saying I think he could be scum.

But anyone could be scum in this game

[Flavor Leaf]

Also, i said the exact same thing Battle Mage said before about me being wrong with the read too, so that’s showing the hypocrisy they have going on

[Flavor Leaf]

Although with respect, if I was scum, you'd never be able to catch me.

This also shows that a ScumBattleMage would be legitimately upset by me calling them scum correctly and thus acting the way they have.

While they could be town, I by no reason have reason to think they’re not playing to a scum agenda.

If anything, I threw a harness on the slot until I can make sure they’re not rabid.

[Mizzytastic]

boop