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[Noraa]

Ok Im still not caught up and have some other stuff I gotta do tonight but here's my reply to the core of duppins argument.
We are almost 100% certain their is one scum in {duppin, haschel} and one in {noraa, gamma} because we are all sold that {vp, ythan} is clear
You say limming in {duppin, haschel} is better but I disagree bc
1) both pools are guaranteed a scum because Noraa/Gamma and Duppin/Haschel are shitsolves and everyone knows these are impossible. If anyone believes in one of these, do explain cuz I don't buy it.
2) we just limmed a doctor. limming another power role(or the possibility cuz we dk preflip) is a terrible idea considering it'll likely live til tmrw as long as we kill of scum!gamma

[Noraa]

If we kill off scum!gamma, the remaining scum, either haschel or duppin will not kill the other otherwise they will die immediately so we will get one more night result from that pr and we can decide after the gamma lim, after some ISO hunting, with one more night action from that pr, who is scum in {duppin, haschel}.

[Noraa]

Gtg for a bit but I saw duppin Fosed me a bit and said the solve was Haschel/Noraa which is interesting considering I pushed a Gamma/Duppin solve just a few posts prior to that but I'll take a look at that and reply later.

Ftr out of duppin and haschel, I think haschel is scum
but knowing that gamma is the partner, I feel duppin is more likely than haschel.
So in general, haschel is the scum in {duppin, haschel}
but partner wise, duppin/gamma fits more imo

I'll go into more detail later

[duppin]

Ok Im still not caught up and have some other stuff I gotta do tonight but here's my reply to the core of duppins argument.
We are almost 100% certain their is one scum in {duppin, haschel} and one in {noraa, gamma} because we are all sold that {vp, ythan} is clear
You say limming in {duppin, haschel} is better but I disagree bc
1) both pools are guaranteed a scum because Noraa/Gamma and Duppin/Haschel are shitsolves and everyone knows these are impossible. If anyone believes in one of these, do explain cuz I don't buy it.
2) we just limmed a doctor. limming another power role(or the possibility cuz we dk preflip) is a terrible idea considering it'll likely live til tmrw as long as we kill of scum!gamma

That is not the core of my argument though.

The core of my argument is that you are clearing a pairing of Gamma/Haschel for no apparent reason. This is what I asked you to elaborate on and you said you would but you did not. I need you to explain why you do not think they can be partners.

A big reason I question this read of yours is because to me it does actually seem like you have been trying to look for potential associations properly because if you had then you should realise there had been more distancing between my pred slot and Gamma that there has been between Gamma and Haschel. This does not mean me and Gamma are never together but if you want to push that world your argument should be that Gamma bussed my slot.
However your argument seems to be that me and Gamma are more likely to be together due to my claim (but how does that work?) and that Gamma and Haschel are unlikely to be together because ???

So when you push this world you are automatically going to push me into a Haschel/Noraa pair.

If you are town then once again, I need you to acknowledge the fact that Gamma tried to lim my slot day 2 and I need you to explain why Gamma and Haschel can not be together.
If you are town, then from my point of view the team would have to be Gamma and Haschel, but you do not believe that is possible so why is that?

[duppin]

And Noraa please understand that if you are town then it is very important you evaluate this world because if we end up limming Haschel today and he flips scum, then it clears me as town so do you think I as town would be more likely to believe in the Gamma+Haschel world when Gamma sided with me over Haschel or the Noraa+Haschel world when you tried to push the idea that Gamma/Haschel could never be together. If you are town then you really need to figure out why you do not believe they can be together.

[duppin]

Also I suppose I should at least consider the possibility of noraa + Gamma.

As I said I think it is unlikely given Gamma's push on noraa day 2. For them to be partners it would also mean that they would have to have some kind of redirect ability and that it would have been used either on Haschel (in which case he would have been redirected to Gamma because then the misc action would have been Ythan) or that they redirected me to any of the tpr claims.

Noraa does claim she wants to lim Gamma over me and Haschel but does not want to vote because she says scum would be able to lim quickly, but actually that isn't true since we are 6 players so it would require at least two town votes. Meh I don't think all of this sounds that plausible, technically possible but unlikely I think.

But I think I would at least like an answer to this:

I’m kinda curious about something
Btw I’d prefer duppin claim his action first

I know VP already asked about this as well, but why did you want me to claim first?

[VP Baltar]

The core of my argument is that you are clearing a pairing of Gamma/Haschel for no apparent reason. This is what I asked you to elaborate on and you said you would but you did not. I need you to explain why you do not think they can be partners.

I'm interested in hearing this too

[VP Baltar]

Cooking dinner right now but after I come back I want to look at the Reck/Dr Pepper interactions a bit more.

Anything on this?

What are your thoughts on this Gamma debate?

[Noraa]

Ok so duppin. I am the most confident in a scum!gamma possibility. When briefly thinking about who the partner could be, my answer was duppin. I don't remember exactly what happened bit by bit throughout the entire course of this game but I remembered that recently you had "cleared" gamma by saying you targeted him two days in a row. I remembered this interaction cuz I found it weird at the time that 1) you chose to target gamma two days in a row and 2) that you thought no action 2 days in a row 100% cleared them. There was a lot of interaction between you and gamma with all the "u claim first please" and I felt that was a great way for partners to distance-by calling each other out(in a way) Between Gamma and Haschel, all I can really remember is maybe them being on the same wagon a few times but like ... that's it. The interactions are so few that I feel they aren't the solve otherwise rn it would seem very obvious it was them.

[VP Baltar]

Between Gamma and Haschel, all I can really remember is maybe them being on the same wagon a few times but like ... that's it. The interactions are so few that I feel they aren't the solve otherwise rn it would seem very obvious it was them.

Huh? So you are excluding them because they don't have much interaction? I would think that makes them MORE likely

[Noraa]

And Noraa please understand that if you are town then it is very important you evaluate this world because if we end up limming Haschel today and he flips scum, then it clears me as town so do you think I as town would be more likely to believe in the Gamma+Haschel world when Gamma sided with me over Haschel or the Noraa+Haschel world when you tried to push the idea that Gamma/Haschel could never be together. If you are town then you really need to figure out why you do not believe they can be together.

What side of this argument I agree with doesn't decide my alignment. for all I know, you could be scum trying to manipulate me rn and honestly, I'm pretty convinced your adding fuel to the fire and making everyone confused so that your partner gamma doesn't die. Gamma siding with u over haschel. I could see that as gamma bussing haschel to pocket you later to push you tomorrow and win the game. So, ig if I buy a duppin town, gamma/haschel is the solve.

duppin town I buy more than haschel town.
but as I've said, there's been more interactions between gamma and duppin than gamma and haschel which makes me think its more likely duppin is scum. Cuz scums don't distance that well normally..

You said gamma pushed you day 2 or something. I don't see how that rules out a duppin/gamma solve at all. Bussing is a thing and the fact that it was a vanity wagon at the time that wasn't all that likely to go thru anyways bc of the chkflip mislim doesn't really help me rule that out. Plus Dr. Pepper was in ur slot at the time and he was a full on lurker. Even if the scums I'm assuming gamma and reck just wanted to full on get him limmed for towncred, I would not at all be surprised.

[Noraa]

Between Gamma and Haschel, all I can really remember is maybe them being on the same wagon a few times but like ... that's it. The interactions are so few that I feel they aren't the solve otherwise rn it would seem very obvious it was them.

Huh? So you are excluding them because they don't have much interaction? I would think that makes them MORE likely

wait why?

[VP Baltar]

Between Gamma and Haschel, all I can really remember is maybe them being on the same wagon a few times but like ... that's it. The interactions are so few that I feel they aren't the solve otherwise rn it would seem very obvious it was them.

Huh? So you are excluding them because they don't have much interaction? I would think that makes them MORE likely

wait why?

Scum often forget to focus genuine attention on their buddies because the entire thing is made up conflict.

[VP Baltar]

It's WIFOM of course

[Noraa]

idk from my experience specifically, scums tend to overthink and end up interacting at least a fair amount to not raise suspicion. I feel like 100% avoidance which is what I see from haschel and gamma is kinda ... weird. And considering both are like players with quite some experience, its a lil hard to believe they would avoid each other that obviously :/

[VP Baltar]

It's a fair point. But it's all guess work too. I wouldn't overweight it in the sense of thinking they can never be partners here

[Noraa]

duppin and haschel both fit well with gamma some way or another and I don't buy duppin/haschel which is why I push a gamma lim today.
plus, as I've said, duppin and haschel will both live til tmrw bc whichever is scum will not kill the other off at night otherwise they die tomorrow and lose the game.
so, if we wait til tmrw, we have more time to iso, one more night action from our pr in {duppin, haschel}, and we are well off for tomorrow where we basically have a 50-50 chance in choosing who is scum in those two.

[VP Baltar]

Awfully quiet Haschel.

[Noraa]

Awfully quiet Haschel.

I was thinking this as well but also like if he was scum, I feel like he would start setting me up as limbait at this point so gamma can win after he dies today and i get dragged down with him.

Yeah I'm overthinking everything rn but there's just so many possibilities that my mind has blown up atm @_@

[Haschel Cedricson]

At work right now.

As you suggested there wasn't much there re: Dr. Pepper, although I am a little curious about Reck proposing a Flash wagon that suddenly turned into votes; once the wagon starts he doesn't really push on it more until after it's started to slow down. I do think his vote on Noraa at the start of Day 3 is townpoints for her; it doesn't feel like a bus.

[duppin]

And Noraa please understand that if you are town then it is very important you evaluate this world because if we end up limming Haschel today and he flips scum, then it clears me as town so do you think I as town would be more likely to believe in the Gamma+Haschel world when Gamma sided with me over Haschel or the Noraa+Haschel world when you tried to push the idea that Gamma/Haschel could never be together. If you are town then you really need to figure out why you do not believe they can be together.

What side of this argument I agree with doesn't decide my alignment. for all I know, you could be scum trying to manipulate me rn and honestly, I'm pretty convinced your adding fuel to the fire and making everyone confused so that your partner gamma doesn't die. Gamma siding with u over haschel. I could see that as gamma bussing haschel to pocket you later to push you tomorrow and win the game. So, ig if I buy a duppin town, gamma/haschel is the solve.

how am I confusing anyone? It is pretty clear that I am not voting on anyone but Haschel today.
->

duppin town I buy more than haschel town.
but as I've said, there's been more interactions between gamma and duppin than gamma and haschel which makes me think its more likely duppin is scum. Cuz scums don't distance that well normally..

now see this is important: you know there is a scum between me and haschel and you believe i am more likely to be town than haschel
This means that you have to consider Gamma/Haschel as a potential world but it seems like you have refused to do so

You said gamma pushed you day 2 or something. I don't see how that rules out a duppin/gamma solve at all. Bussing is a thing and the fact that it was a vanity wagon at the time that wasn't all that likely to go thru anyways bc of the chkflip mislim doesn't really help me rule that out. Plus Dr. Pepper was in ur slot at the time and he was a full on lurker. Even if the scums I'm assuming gamma and reck just wanted to full on get him limmed for towncred, I would not at all be surprised.

I clearly stated that I thought you would argue that we were partners and he bussed - but you did not, which was why I thought your logic was really weird.
Also why are you talking about chkflip? I am unsure as to what you mean, this was day 2 and it is undeniable that a confirmed scum player tried to start a quick wagon on my slot and Gamma then voted after mod confirmed my slot had been prodded and then my slot was but to E-1 but VP put it back to E-2. The argument you should be making if you want to paint me as scum is that scum bussed and tried to lim my slot which I suppose is a possibility. Bias side I think that would be unlikely for them to do that when they could easily push elsewhere (there was a wagon on you as an example and tn I believe), yet it deflected onto my slot and was started by confirmed scum. You can make your own conclusions I understand that I have some bias of course

[duppin]

Ok so duppin. I am the most confident in a scum!gamma possibility. When briefly thinking about who the partner could be, my answer was duppin. I don't remember exactly what happened bit by bit throughout the entire course of this game but I remembered that recently you had "cleared" gamma by saying you targeted him two days in a row. I remembered this interaction cuz I found it weird at the time that 1) you chose to target gamma two days in a row and 2) that you thought no action 2 days in a row 100% cleared them. There was a lot of interaction between you and gamma with all the "u claim first please" and I felt that was a great way for partners to distance-by calling each other out(in a way) Between Gamma and Haschel, all I can really remember is maybe them being on the same wagon a few times but like ... that's it. The interactions are so few that I feel they aren't the solve otherwise rn it would seem very obvious it was them.

this isn't really consistent with what you said earlier. You said that they had "distanced" so well that you did not believe they could be together, now youre claiming that they haven't had any interactions.
It seems like what your real read/logic should be is that you believe me and Gamma are more likely to be together due to my claim (which I will gladly challenge, I don't really see why that would be a scum ploy) more so than you have reason to believe that Gamma and Haschel can not be together.

I can accept the fact that if you are town that you believe me and Gamma are slightly more likely to be partners but I can not accept that you can not believe Gamma and haschel can not be together because there is absolutely no reason to believe this and you also indirectly push it into a Haschel/Noraa world by this approach, which is why I think it is scummy. So if you are town then you really need to understand that the world is a possibility and that you do not have any reason to deem it unlikely because they haven't really interacted at all

(i also really disagree with your logic that scum are less likely to distance, I am sure this is the case for some players but if you believe this is the norm then I just wanted to let you know I think that is a very dangerous mindset to have as town, but this is probably more for post game)

[Noraa]

I never said gamma/haschel is impossible. I just feel like gamma/duppin seems more likely. but my problem is that I buy duppin town more than haschel town individually. but when gamma comes into play, I think ur more likely. so I've just gone in circles with this logic cuz I can't fucking tell which of {duppin, haschel} is town. this is why I've been saying gamma lim is towns safest bet today.

[Noraa]

duppin stop twisting my words. Im not replying to most of the above posts bc ur twisting my words. Idc if u don't agree with my logic. Point out flaws don't twist my words around and create some dang flaws.

[Noraa]

Ur greatly frustrating me rn cuz I don't see what's wrong with my solve. I just feel like scum is trying to anger me rn as this is basically the only time this game that I've actually articulated my reads well, or at least I believe I have tried to make it understandable. And I personally think its very reasonable and there is no reason for me to think otherwise.