Death Curse

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Taylor can we make this happen

you said you're 95% confident I'm scum

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Why do you think taylor is scum.

she soft-defended noraa and then jumped in front of her vote-train - fits her suicidal scum meta.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

why do you think she's town?

[UNOwen]

I'm not sure. There's kind of like, 4-6 people I want to vote RN.
Lapsa, The guy that just replaced out. Hopkirk. Zdenek. pooky.
Maginally Theta

Pedit: I knew you'd say something like that.

This is a good list. I will get back to you soon-ish on shelly, but I believe she is town here.

[Theta Alpine]

replying to hopkirk
i slightly lean scum on you
though i have several better targets

VOTE: adorable
i want to get a wagon on this

why do you lean scum on hopkirk? why are teh other targets better? why a vote on adorable?

hopkirk read is 1176 and elaborated on in 1457
it is a conditional read so i guess that is technically fencesitting
but at this point i would not kill them today
i would want to see what noraa is first

adorable read is 832 and was elaborated on in 1191
tayl0r read is 1169

@Theta and Vaxkiller: 1426 is interested in what you think.

i do not want to read noraa at this point
but strictly speaking
i want to believe noraa is town
but she does suspicious stuff that makes me doubt that is actually the case

[Bell]

I don't agree that I was throwing shade at him. I was genuinely curious. I know that hopkirk generally knows what towncred is and how to get it and his switch in posting style is designed to get it.

....@Pooky confession: I don't think I can read taylor. But she seems to be try harding which is new and exciting to me.

[Hopkirk]

Upsides
IF Nora town - full picture of the situation reduces odds of misunderstanding
IF Nora scum - they can easily get caught out in a direct lie here
Either way - any interaction with Noraa helps inform our reads on the slot.
No downsides

Did you feel there was a misunderstanding from either Noraa or LLD?

I felt there were things Noraa wasn't being 100% clear on and they both seemed like the kind of personalities to shout past each other in an argument so it was definitely plausible yeah.

This is really bad phrasing. The last part feels like a lamist mediator talking words and ignoring why Noraa isn't working with us. Like if Noraa is town here in what world does she respond positiviely to 'work with us' and nothing else? In worlds of scum Noraa it doesn't matter sure, but if you care about the say 10% chance town Noraa (guessing your priors here) then this is a spaghetti weak appeal with only limpyness behind it.

I thought it might work because I had a recent game where I baited an NK on N1 and the town PRs went on to play a big role in the win. But I have tried to interact with Noraa in many different places in many different ways.

I'll take a look at you again yeah. I've got at least three townreads saying you're town and you do have the kind of posting style I frequently (wrongly) gut tunnel so I want to reread you soon.

Which ones? I think I only really commented on pretty obvtown slots?

lol at this entire post but..

They townread me without a lot of good reasons and I didn't get great vibes.

..I was responding pretty directly to this, as in, I want to give Hopkirk space to respond to you and not just do what we did to Noraa agin.

100% sheeping a TR to pressure someone then? That's reasonable.

Can your explain this post? Frist 2/3 only.

it means I think you're a good player

Which of my games have you read?

Shelly/Denek/Mush/LLD/Pooky/Taylor fairly obvtown as of p27.

talk to me about denek and pooky?

Zdenek was the mech stuff in a big part then his later posting felt like he wasn't just waiting around on Norra. 685 was a nice post.
Pooky I townread a lot of the casual/happy tone around the Noraa interactions. Idk about him anymore because there's some weird un-jovial stuff that feels off, so I'll get back to you on that.

[UNOwen]

i do not want to read noraa at this point
but strictly speaking
i want to believe noraa is town
but she does suspicious stuff that makes me doubt that is actually the case

Please do?
Or if not, do the suspicious things you see override any desire for her to be town to make you think she is scum?

[Vaxkiller]

Question for anyone: Is there an overwhelming majority of players who think Noraa is scum or is there just an overwhelming majority of players who think LLD is going to make sure Noraa dies soon so aren't putting in too much effort?

I wasnt even aware LLD was still trying to kill nora. I'll write this on my to do list.

Are you scum reading nora unowen?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Which of my games have you read?

none. Your writing is good enough that I don't feel the need to murder you every time I read one of your posts. I have a pretty low bar for LHF.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I don't agree that I was throwing shade at him. I was genuinely curious. I know that hopkirk generally knows what towncred is and how to get it and his switch in posting style is designed to get it.

....@Pooky confession: I don't think I can read taylor. But she seems to be try harding which is new and exciting to me.

tryhard taylor = scum-taylor

town taylor is a lurker who posts shitty dog pictures

[UNOwen]

I wasnt even aware LLD was still trying to kill nora. I'll write this on my to do list.

Are you scum reading nora unowen?

I am yes.

[Theta Alpine]

i do not want to read noraa at this point
but strictly speaking
i want to believe noraa is town
but she does suspicious stuff that makes me doubt that is actually the case

Please do?
Or if not, do the suspicious things you see override any desire for her to be town to make you think she is scum?

i mean to actually answer your question

i think the fact that noraa has done a lot of suspicious stuff will get her killed
but i do not know if noraa is scum or not
though i will agree that a certain behavior she exhibited immediately after votes started shifting away from her and the decision was made that she would be in the third slot is very close to a scum claim

[UNOwen]

tryhard taylor = scum-taylor

town taylor is a lurker who posts shitty dog pictures

How many games have you played with town Taylor?

[Theta Alpine]

or was that immediately before

i do not actually properly remember how that went down
let me read that part again

[Bell]

Back later.

@Pooky: I'll think about it. Though, her questions seem rather focused(?) for scum.

[Hopkirk]

I feel like its going to turn out that LLD's push on Hopkirk was just reaction testing like hopkirk said.

It was a pretty good one too since I think 3 people- notably Theta - jumped to agree with her. Pushing a low content slot for NAI stuff then seeing if people go along with you on something you don't agree with is a good way to catch out whether people are just agreeing with you.
This post was why I thought that btw: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12253586

hopkirk
almost the entirety of my scum lean on you is that you made a blank vote on a popular wagon
with slight influences from faking a post restriction and the way you agreed with another players reads without elaboration

and honestly the more i thought about the blank vote the less i wanted to kill you because it simply did not make sense for scum to behave that way if noraa is scum
but i am also operating under the assumption that noraa could be town in which case that would be a valid scum lean

so let me just say that i do not think you and noraa are scum together
my scum lean on you is conditional on noraa being town

The 'I am willing to kill them' really doesn't line up with what came before it or from this imo if it's literally 'they made a blank post' and you thought all of the other stuff was NAI? Are you using 'kill' in a really weak sense, or do you not really care who's first lethaled here? I really don't get your point of view here since as far as I can tell if you're town that's happy to vote me for how I interacted with the wagon then I'd expect to see you looking at the early wagon and potential bussing/avoidance a lot more and I really don't get that from you yet.

@Hopkirk counter question to town cred question. Why are you trying to look town right now if you don't care about town cred by dropping the act?

I dropped the act because two people replaced out so I wouldn't get modkilled for dropping it, and also because there were a lot of pages. I realized 'oh yeah, it's literally impossible to catch up on thirty pages of stuff and comment on it with this, I really should have saved this for a micro shouldn't I'. I could commit to it hard yeah, but then It's going to take me literally five times as long to format everything right and you can probably tell I don't want to spend my time like that.

Behavioralism. She's scum reading whoever gives her a hard time and town reads whoever doesn't. Also, I voted her way before she voted me so I can't be omgusing her, when she's omgusing me, but she keeps forgetting that.

Who would be your next vote?

I'm not sure. There's kind of like, 4-6 people I want to vote RN.
Lapsa, The guy that just replaced out. Hopkirk. Zdenek. pooky.
Maginally Theta

Pedit: I knew you'd say something like that.

Really not a fan of your POE here. Can I get some more thoughts on all of those slots?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Back later.

@Pooky: I'll think about it. Though, her questions seem rather focused(?) for scum.

she tends to lack focus when she's town

[Vaxkiller]

I don't agree that I was throwing shade at him. I was genuinely curious. I know that hopkirk generally knows what towncred is and how to get it and his switch in posting style is designed to get it.

....@Pooky confession: I don't think I can read taylor. But she seems to be try harding which is new and exciting to me.

So you think he drew scum and planned to act out rhyming until things got bad, and then turned it around. Ok that would be a good strat, but your original post still seems shady to me.

@Hopkirk counter question to town cred question. Why are you trying to look town right now if you don't care about town cred by dropping the act?

It seems like to me, you already had an answer to your own question (above) and weren't really looking for one. Hence the shade.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

How many games have you played with town Taylor?

1 completed?
can't talk about ongoing

[Bell]

No, to me it seemed like a contradiction. I had a thought (he is lying), but like a good truth finder I decided to directly ask him rather than just go for one explanation out of many.
His explanation was 1) unexpected and 2) Makes sense. So I'm glad I asked.
@Hopkirk, why aren't you a fan? Besides zdenek and you? tho, your read on zdenek makes no sense to me.

[UNOwen]

1 completed?
can't talk about ongoing

Ok. I also have a completed game with town Taylor, and really don't think "lurker who posts shitty dog pictures" fairly characterizes her play.

[Theta Alpine]

hopkirk
almost the entirety of my scum lean on you is that you made a blank vote on a popular wagon
with slight influences from faking a post restriction and the way you agreed with another players reads without elaboration

and honestly the more i thought about the blank vote the less i wanted to kill you because it simply did not make sense for scum to behave that way if noraa is scum
but i am also operating under the assumption that noraa could be town in which case that would be a valid scum lean

so let me just say that i do not think you and noraa are scum together
my scum lean on you is conditional on noraa being town

The 'I am willing to kill them' really doesn't line up with what came before it or from this imo if it's literally 'they made a blank post' and you thought all of the other stuff was NAI? Are you using 'kill' in a really weak sense, or do you not really care who's first lethaled here? I really don't get your point of view here since as far as I can tell if you're town that's happy to vote me for how I interacted with the wagon then I'd expect to see you looking at the early wagon and potential bussing/avoidance a lot more and I really don't get that from you yet.

i mean i have shifted my vote to adorable twice now because their vote on noraa reads like either a bus or advancing an easy mislynch
also
i specifically said that i would hammer you
it would take near majority of other players voting you for me to actually join in
i was willing to kill you because i believed you to have a better then random chance of being scum then town
but i tried to make it clear that i did not really want your wagon and that other people were much more likely to be scum in my opinion

[Hopkirk]

replying to hopkirk
i slightly lean scum on you
though i have several better targets

VOTE: adorable
i want to get a wagon on this

why do you lean scum on hopkirk? why are teh other targets better? why a vote on adorable?

hopkirk read is 1176 and elaborated on in 1457
it is a conditional read so i guess that is technically fencesitting
but at this point i would not kill them today
i would want to see what noraa is first

adorable read is 832 and was elaborated on in 1191
tayl0r read is 1169

@Theta and Vaxkiller: 1426 is interested in what you think.

i do not want to read noraa at this point
but strictly speaking
i want to believe noraa is town
but she does suspicious stuff that makes me doubt that is actually the case

So can you expand on the Noraa/Hop being different teams a bit? That's a hot take and I'm interested in why.

I don't agree that I was throwing shade at him. I was genuinely curious. I know that hopkirk generally knows what towncred is and how to get it and his switch in posting style is designed to get it.

....@Pooky confession: I don't think I can read taylor. But she seems to be try harding which is new and exciting to me.

Fortunately I'm self aware enough to recognize that I'd be actively making the game worse if I committed to actively harming my ability to talk properly. Unlike people who spend the entire game prod dodging until they get force replaced, or commit hard to other gimmicks that make them perma null I have the self awareness to realize that the gimmick had played out.

More importantly, I can recognize when a joke's played out. If I kept going it isn't any funnier than it was initially, and I wouldn't want to do it until it was played out and actively annoying people since they couldn't read my slot because of it. Knowing there was some kind of wagon (because I was egoing myself by searching mentions of Hopkirk on the site. No, I'm not telling you why...) on me is a pretty good sign that keeping to the gimmick is going to piss people off/make the game less fun for them if they want to engage with me. Making it better is a lot more valuable in overall game enjoyment than keeping it going. Those kind of people who over commit to the bit when nobody cares anymore aren't entertaining.

Even more importantly, two people had been replace out at this point so I didn't have to keep going. Why would I have kept going out of choice? Try and phrase your answer to this as an eight line set of four two line eight syllable rhyming couplets. It's harder than you think. My fingers were literally hurting a bit after about thirty lines on D1. Imagine doing hundreds in a catch up.

Not sure why you think town-Hop would continue the gimmick, very interested in the why there.

[MURDERCAT]

100% sheeping a TR to pressure someone then? That's reasonable.

I was pretty explicit about it