Mini Theme 2161: Undertale C Open - Chara's Folly

[Isis]

Votecount

[Noraa]

Im down to go pooky. Don't like the play here much. He said a lot of "if blah blah" which I'm 99% sure is scum indicative for him towards end game(shallow meta dived a few days ago or something)

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

PRAISE ISIS MY SUFFERING WILL END SOON

[the worst]

Tanner - what is your take on micro 960 vs. Coalition Pooky?

[Tanner]

Tanner can you please read the Prism/MT stuff which I forcibly extracted from Pooky with calipers? Like I don't want to become a broken record but you clearly haven't, and I agree that his "made up story" tell was explicitly not alignment indicative. But I think my reason for townreading MT was in hindsight fairly stupid and I'm not sure there's a reason for scum!Pooky to talk me down from Prism and onto MT?

i remember reading it earlier today, going "meh" and forgetting what i read. fine i'll read it again.

ok so 4975 is talking about how tweet was pushing for suji and not really looking around for other options. ok. why is that scummy?

4976 - why in the ever loving hell would tweet keep moving puppy up her readslist if she knew he was about to flip scum!chara? i get that it was important to keep both scum alive until twilight because white flag, but literally the only people even looking in puppy's direction were me (who was decently suspected at the time) and hectic - he wasn't in real danger. and she wasn't trying to get him spared either, she'd been consistently pushing for fights.

4977 - ok? i mean considering there were two scum alive on d2 and we only know one of them, the argument "none of your fights were scum" can like. be made about anyone other than me. maybe even me for late day two.

4979 - i mean, she appeared first. if she were scum with puppy, wouldn't she, at the very least, warn him not to show up? or like, wait a bit to see if anyone else is gonna appear to see if she actually has to?

i am unconvinced, to say the least.

as for *why* scum!pooky'd talk you into voting MT. devil's advocate says because he hopes you just vote prism for tomorrow. but i think you don't care about my devil's advocate answer.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok so 4975 is talking about how tweet was pushing for suji and not really looking around for other options. ok. why is that scummy?

because I'm explaining to TW why Tweetie is more likely to be scum than Prism.

Prism spent d2 agonizing over the solve and re-reading and changing his mind multiple times at max effort.

Tweetie was like let's just flip Krazy cmon he's gotta be scum.

He's holding Krazy's Role PM in his inbox...

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

4976 - why in the ever loving hell would tweet keep moving puppy up her readslist if she knew he was about to flip scum!chara? i get that it was important to keep both scum alive until twilight because white flag, but literally the only people even looking in puppy's direction were me (who was decently suspected at the time) and hectic - he wasn't in real danger. and she wasn't trying to get him spared either, she'd been consistently pushing for fights.

To make us not look at or consider Puppy?

[Tanner]

Tanner - what is your take on micro 960 vs. Coalition Pooky?

960 was like the game where i finally said "fucking hell i am not using meta from the games i mod anymore" because, just like the games i'm scum in, they're worthless as meta for me because i start from an informed position

also, i don't know. off of memory, 960 pooky was like, more emotional or something, but (1) i've been trying to not think about 960 and (2) i might have skipped a couple of posts in coalition, especially late game...

also also why are you asking me this

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

4979 - i mean, she appeared first. if she were scum with puppy, wouldn't she, at the very least, warn him not to show up? or like, wait a bit to see if anyone else is gonna appear to see if she actually has to?

again this comparison is 1:1

I am comparing Tweet's actions to Prism's actions.

Prism's EOD d2 is way more townie than Tweet's EOD d2.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I kinda get the idea that this is either your towngame or you're trying to deepwolf thereby necessitating that this look like your towngame. I had intuitied that based on the fact this game is ongoing and there is one scum alive. I'm a bit tired of self meta because for the thousandth time every possible scumslot alive has a meta reason why they could never be scum. you witnessed micro 960 first hand. if scum can't explain why X is their towngame, they aren't going to get far as a mafia player.

What I'm asking for is where your reads came from. Working outside of the thing you think MT is lying about why is she scum.... Working outside of Krazy's fuckery why am I town..... why is prism town? is like a freebie but probably interests me the least of the 3 right now because your other reads feel more poignant.

There are 4 people in the sus-pool.

I am 1 of them.

There are 3 others.

We have 2 elims.

I am probly going to be elim'd today.

I'm trying to get you to make the right elim tommorrow.

I don't think it's Krazy or Prism for a lot of reasons.

That leaves Tweetie.

I don't need to explain to you why you're town, so I'm going to make the case for Prism!Town since really that's all I need to convince you of.

This is why I'm comparing Tweet to Prism for Duckie btw. To set the context.

[Tanner]

ok that comparison is 1:1 but like you have two slots you're trying to sort and i have 4 and saying "prism is townier than tweet, ergo tweet scum" is not an argument that holds water from my sad IC point of view

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok but do you understand now why I'm doing 1:1 for Ducky?

[Tanner]

i mean i started ~deepreading~ that because ducky asked me to

i might have lost the context for doing the 1:1 comparison somewhere as i was reading because it's late and i'm not getting a lot of sleep during the weekdays right now

but
wait i was going somewhere
uhhh technically i'm sorting duck or something with it
or something
i forgot
it'll come back to me

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

maybe you should just sleep dude and try to read it without sleep deprivation?

[Tanner]

in moments like these i think it's pooky because he'd know what good move is to have conftown me in endgame hahahahahaa

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

nah i'd leave you unconfirmed if i was scum just to squeeze the life out of you slowly :3

[Tanner]

like, i dunno. i think i agree if you compare prism and morning tweet, prism is like, less likely to flip scum. sure. yes. agreed.

but like i don't think it's either of them?

arguably you could say i don't think it's any of the big four. which is true. this game is pain.

also like, i have a some sorta rule. remember how i was saying i'd never vote s_s in 960, despite not having a strong townread on him? because lilith, who is very good at reading him, locktowned him then flipped town. and like, i know my reads aren't great. and i think there's value in listening to those who are smarter than us. and like. hectic is good at reading tweet. he locktowned her. he flipped town. you see where i'm going with this?

and the krazy thing is like. heavily unfortunate. i didn't think he's scum prior either, though...

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

ok but if i flip green and hectic was wrong on me being scum would you throw his read of tweet out the window too?

[Tanner]

shouldn't i be dead by that point? please don't go around implying i'll be alive in f4.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

you will but i think its important for you to leave a message for those who will be alive

[the worst]

ok so 4975 is talking about how tweet was pushing for suji and not really looking around for other options. ok. why is that scummy?

it's not scummy at all. scanning MT through that phase it felt like she was trying to avoid rocking the boat - functionally her contributions during that phase were pushing an empty slot for reasons which were dubious at best. I haven't seen her reevaluate until after the phase - afaict this is just scum laying low.

4976 - why in the ever loving hell would tweet keep moving puppy up her readslist if she knew he was about to flip scum!chara?

Because Chara is about to flip scum and leave MT as the last member of her faction..... like there is no choice in this phase EXCEPT to go for counterintuitive associatives and establish yourself as the deepwolf. we aren't looking for "things scum normally do D1 to distance", we are specifically looking for fake associatives which are manipulated to look nonaligned.

i get that it was important to keep both scum alive until twilight because white flag, but literally the only people even looking in puppy's direction were me (who was decently suspected at the time) and hectic - he wasn't in real danger. and she wasn't trying to get him spared either, she'd been consistently pushing for fights

....... Scum know that puppy is just about to flip Chara.... town seemed hellbent on sticking to fights to flip Chara. Why would anyone as scum rock the boat here especially when it's white flag? Doing anything else would just paint an X on your back.

4977 - ok? i mean considering there were two scum alive on d2 and we only know one of them, the argument "none of your fights were scum" can like. be made about anyone other than me. maybe even me for late day two.

Agree this is a nulltell but I do think MT was trying to set herself up to endgame on D2. Her lack of voting trajectory between pushing my (town) slot and compromising on a (town) elimination at deadline should be telling you something.

4979 - i mean, she appeared first. if she were scum with puppy, wouldn't she, at the very least, warn him not to show up? or like, wait a bit to see if anyone else is gonna appear to see if she actually has to?

I don't understand this point I'm sorry



The devil's advocate case isn't very strong. I'll hear out both Noraa and Pooky if this game keeps going and like, might actually put in some semblance of effort or something, but MT makes perfect sense to me as scum and I don't think this is really scum!Pooky and I really don't feel like that D2 was prism's scumgame regardless of what Ali was like.

[the worst]

also why are you asking me this

because this reads like micro 960 Pooky if Pooky had realised he was fucking up the gamestate and needed to dial it back several notches. I haven't gone and meta'd him because meta is for nerds but this looks like his towngame dude.

[Tanner]

can we then burn tweet and ducky? asking for a friend

[the worst]

I am starting to doubt that you'll even need to burn me.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

if tweet flips green i will probly jump out a window