Mini Normal 2166 | Dog Show Champions | Game Over

[Nero Cain]

i think this setup was a little on the scum side. Like maybe I'm just salty but I mean games are normally 10/3. So the point of taking out the extra town was? Town felt a bit low powered to me but that might have been due to Datisi dying n1. But he was almost like a 2x cop and the IC is equivalent to 1 cop shot and then we had a kinda useless personal tracker. So it was basically 3 cop shots and a1-time protection.

[Mizzytastic]

I had forgotten it was a 12 when I said what I thought about the setup. I think you are right it's a bit scumsided. I don't think 9:3 is exactly uncommon tho.

[NoPowerOverMe]

Scum had no real power roles besides leaving town and the WIFOM of the 2 player hood. I felt it was townsided so that's why the 12 player.

[skitter30]

Heya gg all, sorry for repping out, was sick irl unfortunately
Looking forward to playing with y'all again someday

[tris]

np. last time we were mafia together, i replaced out, and you went on to win, so this time it was your turn

[skitter30]

[mastina]

Hi I reviewed this game.

[Mizzytastic]

There was definitely some discussion of the design, I'd be curious to hear your take on it

[mastina]

There was definitely some discussion of the design, I'd be curious to hear your take on it

By and large, I was mostly okay with things--mostly.

I, personally, absolutely

hate

SST neighborhoods (barring multiball with two different scum factions), because I feel that they are disproportionately likely to influence the game in an unnatural way where at least one if not both of the scum within are likely to be townread. SST neighborhoods are not hard to pocket the townie within and manipulate them, and even if not, it's still likely that if one scum neighbor flips, the other will be instantly townread.

I feel like they carry far more weight than people give them credit for--after all, there's a good reason that Scum Neighborizer outside of multiball has one of the highest winrates out of any scum role (admittedly, small sample size), and a SST neighborhood functions similarly to one.

But I was the secondary reviewer to nsg, and while I expressed my belief that SST as a neighborhood is a huge scum asset, I let her make the call on it and she allowed it (her design philosophy and why she believes SST is okay is rather extensively outlined in MD), but other than the SST neighborhood, I feel the setup is fine.

[mastina]

(Basically, I personally feel that SST is an unreasonable expectation, but nsg has a different belief than me.)

[Gamma Emerald]

I think the biggest spanner-in-the-works there is the inconsistency of day talk

[tris]

I think the biggest spanner-in-the-works there is the inconsistency of day talk

[NoPowerOverMe]

I personally feel if neighborhoods are always TTS then it gives town an unfair advantage. More variety in setup's makes things interesting. Scum had no daytalk and no real power roles to offset the SST neighborhood.

[UnaBombaH]

I think the biggest spanner-in-the-works there is the inconsistency of day talk

This.
I'm honestly the biggest culprit here giving N_M a free pass once Alch flipped scum, but I'm not sure if I would have been AS SET ON IT here, if we didn't get the info that scum don't have a daytalk.
That+putting two scum in a neighborhood together feels backwards, and definitely affected my ability to ever solve the game.

That all being said, it's probably my own fault as a player more than it being "unfair".

[UnaBombaH]

I personally feel if neighborhoods are always TTS then it gives town an unfair advantage

I personally think that all 3P-hoods should be either T-T-S or 3xT.
That way I'd argue it's almost certainly still not townsided.
Because whenever it's a 3T-hood, there's still always paranoia, and people who want to "solve the game" by eliminating the hood one by one.

It still creates diversity in gameplay, it generates conversation, and it still means that good players can make it useful for their alignment.
Just my view on it.

[NoPowerOverMe]

Well if that was meant to be the case then it would be part of the normal guidelines.

[NoPowerOverMe]

Also only 52 pages. Lack of conversation definately helped scum in my opinion more than the game setup.

[UnaBombaH]

Well if that was meant to be the case then it would be part of the normal guidelines.

And we both know that isn't the case. Hence, there's no conversation to be had about the normalcy of things here, nor should anyone question it imo.
In my mind it was a good setup because at least it was different but not cheesy, and didn't feel overwhelmingly unbalanced in any direction.

Also only 52 pages. Lack of conversation definately helped scum in my opinion more than the game setup.

Yes, we agree on this.
I'm not arguing this was poor design by any means!
If anything, I'm saying that my judgement on the matter is poor..