Open 800 - Donner Party | Game Over

[superbowl9]

Spoiler:

Well you are super wrong about me, i suggest you looking somewhere else. If you won't, then case me instead of just calling me scum. Or do you just expect people to take your word for it?

The reason she won’t do that is because she knows you will just take her points and “destroy them with facts and logic”. A lot of newer players want like a point by point case they can tear down to feel like they’ve won an argument or interaction, but you can literally technicality and overanalyze your way out of ANY point someone can bring up in this game.

It’s just not an efficient or fun way to play, so a lot of people use more broad terminology and clarify when necessary, and will debate more on the spirit of an argument rather than trying to think up arguments to prove themselves right. Why would anyone with that approach bother to give a nuanced explanation when they know the spirit of that message will not be relevant to the one responding? Yet you view it as “they have no argument! They must have backed off because they were scared of interaction!”

I know this because I used to be that player. I also know this post probably won’t convince you of what I’m saying. But if you’re looking for an explanation as to why I’ve “shaded” you and DT, this is it. Have fun destroying it with facts and logic

What do you know about the reason she will not do it, did she tell you in chat? Why is Taylor ok with this guy answering for her?

So you are saying that if someone accuses me of scum, I shouldnt try to debunk their theory to prove that I'm not? And instead what? Let the accuser lead a wagon to miseliminate me?
When you said that i can “literally overanalyze my way out of any point someone can bring up in this game”, what did you mean? Can you show me examples where i've done this?

These are all legit non rhetorical questions.

It could be that taylor completely disagrees with everything I said (although I suspect she doesn’t) I just saw it as a good opportunity to hijack and explain myself a little

Your reply is exactly what I mean, I can give you examples but will you just “debunk” them? What’s the point? It will take a lot of effort from me to paint you a picture of what I’m talking about but why would I do that when there’s a good chance you’re not going to be looking at it to understand, but looking at it to “debunk”? <-that’s your example right there

[Guillotina]

UNVOTE: DoubtingThomas

DT, it seems like you legit town read me, at least you didn't lash off at me when i casted my vote on you. You behaved like someone who really town reads the other.

But i need more.

The moment you told me that you town read me with that odd poem. Why? Why do you town read me.

[Guillotina]

Spoiler:

Well you are super wrong about me, i suggest you looking somewhere else. If you won't, then case me instead of just calling me scum. Or do you just expect people to take your word for it?

The reason she won’t do that is because she knows you will just take her points and “destroy them with facts and logic”. A lot of newer players want like a point by point case they can tear down to feel like they’ve won an argument or interaction, but you can literally technicality and overanalyze your way out of ANY point someone can bring up in this game.

It’s just not an efficient or fun way to play, so a lot of people use more broad terminology and clarify when necessary, and will debate more on the spirit of an argument rather than trying to think up arguments to prove themselves right. Why would anyone with that approach bother to give a nuanced explanation when they know the spirit of that message will not be relevant to the one responding? Yet you view it as “they have no argument! They must have backed off because they were scared of interaction!”

I know this because I used to be that player. I also know this post probably won’t convince you of what I’m saying. But if you’re looking for an explanation as to why I’ve “shaded” you and DT, this is it. Have fun destroying it with facts and logic

What do you know about the reason she will not do it, did she tell you in chat? Why is Taylor ok with this guy answering for her?

So you are saying that if someone accuses me of scum, I shouldnt try to debunk their theory to prove that I'm not? And instead what? Let the accuser lead a wagon to miseliminate me?
When you said that i can “literally overanalyze my way out of any point someone can bring up in this game”, what did you mean? Can you show me examples where i've done this?

These are all legit non rhetorical questions.

It could be that taylor completely disagrees with everything I said (although I suspect she doesn’t) I just saw it as a good opportunity to hijack and explain myself a little

Your reply is exactly what I mean, I can give you examples but will you just “debunk” them? What’s the point? It will take a lot of effort from me to paint you a picture of what I’m talking about but why would I do that when there’s a good chance you’re not going to be looking at it to understand, but looking at it to “debunk”? <-that’s your example right there

Could be but i want to hear it from her.

Why are you not ok with me trying to both understand and debunk?
I feel like you are trying to manipulate my thought process. “Look noob, if you were were town and you were not a noob, you would do it like this, but since you are not, then you are doing it like this”.

This is how it feels. I dont think you are scum, i think you are an elitist, arrogant, ego-tripped town, who views me as a threat to your game experience. The issue with that man is that this a game of mafia where you'll get noobs, experienced, scummy towns, towny wolfs and several thousands of variations! Human behavior is complex and this is why mafia is so fun.

[Guillotina]

also why is guillotina like pretending to know my meta? he's saw my scum game once when it was my first game ever since my 1.5 years long hiatus and I subbed into a bastard mash that was already in a shitty place. would be playing differently no matter what. also I only randed towns in the games he's hosted, and yet that would still read differently reading from a host perspective? hmm maybe that will be my tinfoil slot out of my town core

Because i love playing mafia and i research players that catch my attention. This means i don't only refered to games i played with you or hosted for you, i looked up other past games.

[superbowl9]

If you think I’m an elitist preaching down to you idrc, I’m trying to explain to you why I’ve said what I’ve said. I’m not going to get into an argument with you about this but yes, I do view you as a threat to my chances at catching scum this game which is why I’m fine elimming you even if I don’t have a great read on your alignment. I would say this if you were acting the same way regardless of your experience level, but like I said I used to play that way and know it to come from newer players more often.

[DoubtingThomas]

If you think I’m an elitist preaching down to you idrc

the irony

[DoubtingThomas]

all the "scum reads" I got this game

-Too go-with-the-flowy to be town (Chaos)
-Shitting everyone (battle mage)
-Policy lim because he's bad for game health (superb)
-He's biting everyone's head off (Guillotina)
-Used AtE (Chk)

all the "scum reads" I got this game

-Too go-with-the-flowy to be town (Chaos)
-Shitting everyone (battle mage)
-Policy lim because he's bad for game health (superb)
-He's biting everyone's head off (Johnny)
-Used AtE (Chk)
-He's irrational when wolf (Guillotina.. although I don't think I ever wolfed against you besides a game that I subbed in for a day which I don't think really counts but w/e)

What happened here? Couldn't make up your mind?

no I misplaced your name with someone else's. that can't be 'unable to make up mind' because it's literally just facts and not really a read

[DoubtingThomas]

What i've been trying to figure out here is the gamma/dt relation.

Are they really buddying up?

Or

Is it a pocketing case and if so, who pocketed who?

I think one way to determine if people are 'buddy-buddying' or making pure interactions is looking at the whole thread. are there reasons for them to be buddy-buddying or vice versa?

a lot of people have been scum reading me whether or not if that's a correct read is a different matter. so there are some pointers to think about. In the case that DT was being scum read by not everyone but a few people arelier on in the game, what motive did Gamma Emerald have to 'buddy buddy' DT as a partner? I personally think a scum partner would be less inclined to purely defend his only partner when a lot of the thread is pushing them.

You also should think about how others treated my slot and have progressed from it. E.g. Johnny town read me but now scum reads me. Catboi has (as far as I can tell, although they haven't been in the thread quite often) have been town reading me. Chaos also town read me initially but now I am likely scum (this progression is a bit better than what others shown me and I have less problem with) Battle Mage substituted in and scum reads me.

Keeping all these things in your mind, think about whether or not Gamma still trying to defend me is a 'buddy buddy' attempt. I think the course of how Gamma defended me - not to death (e.g. prefers to not kill chaos over me) but still voicing their town read when it matters, even though it was much easier for her to "re evaluate" and rescind her town read on me and express 'meh, dt can die also' to receive possible bus cred as a partner means it's unlikely that we are partners.

Remember also that there's a 3p serial killer in play that scums do not know about that are likely to kill another townie for scum faction. I think it's difficult for any scum partner to defend a fellow partner like gamma has done. Maybe gamma can be trying to pocket me as a scum and trying to receive credit of "I told you so" when I flip town, but not really as a partner. I could be biased because I already know my alignment in this interaction though

[DoubtingThomas]

UNVOTE: DoubtingThomas

DT, it seems like you legit town read me, at least you didn't lash off at me when i casted my vote on you. You behaved like someone who really town reads the other.

But i need more.

The moment you told me that you town read me with that odd poem. Why? Why do you town read me.

odd poem? I think I said I town read you in multiple posts and do not exactly recall which one you are talking about. which one?

[DoubtingThomas]

Johnny's change of read on my slot is different than Guillo's or Gamma's even though they are doing the same thing.

Johnny was always in a position to tranquil me and others fighting with each other and always treated me as such. I find that hard to come from someone to another player that they scum read. It was like beyond surface-level friendliness. and I thought he was serving a pro-town agenda by keeping the thread under control.

But then he came back to the thread and still hasn't explained why he switched from town reading me to scum reading me. It was so hidden that Gamma didn't even realize he was legitimately scum reading me. and when asked by both myself and gamma, he has refrained from answering. That's not really townie.

[DoubtingThomas]

Guillo, if you are legitimately asking for a game where I did ask for policy lim, well. I've played a lot of games and those specific ones were over 1.5 years ago in varying websites that I played on, so I probably cannot give you a link at ready. I will say though, regardless of my alignment, I wouldn't lie about whether or not I have policy lim is easily pushable from scum perspective. I mean the logic is very simple there. that being said, towns do push for policy lim as well. but that is not my main concern with superb's slot as I've said repeatedly

[Guillotina]

UNVOTE: DoubtingThomas

DT, it seems like you legit town read me, at least you didn't lash off at me when i casted my vote on you. You behaved like someone who really town reads the other.

But i need more.

The moment you told me that you town read me with that odd poem. Why? Why do you town read me.

odd poem? I think I said I town read you in multiple posts and do not exactly recall which one you are talking about. which one?

The very first one where you told me something like "I town read you, let's work together to find scum".

[DoubtingThomas]

Spoiler:

This sounds like you tried hard to find a reason to find me scum, cast a ridiculous vote on me and see if it gains momentum. This gets you lynched where i come from.

You really think you SCARE me? I eat players like you for breakfast. And I don’t think I had to “try hard” to find those reasons. The joke thing is self-evident and as for why it’s scummy, scum don’t really have the mental bandwidth to be figuring out what is and isn’t a joke effectively, they’re to busy trying to deceive everyone to allocate that brainpower. It’s not exactly scientific but it’s what I’ve discerned over time. And your LAMIST behavior comes from stuff like 162 where it seems a little theatrical to be making that sort of commentary, to the point I find it likely that it is actively staged. The desire to project a townie mindset seems a little TOO strong imo.

Interesting choice of words. “I eat players like you for breakfast” in a game where scum are the cannibals. I know that remark is NAI but it was so funny! Lol.

Let's break this down from a psychological stand point.

1) “You really think you SCARE me”? Denotes that you felt threatened by my words. Why?
2) “I eat players like you for breakfast”. You felt the need to threaten me. Why?
3) “I don't think i had to “try hard” to find those reasons”. Implies doubt, meaning you did try hard to find those reasons.
4) “The joke is self-evident”. Even if it was I don't see how falling for a joke is alignment indicative.

Then the nonsense and vastly hilarious.

5) “scum don’t really have the mental bandwidth to be figuring out what is and isn’t a joke effectively”. Are you really gonna case me for not catching a joke? Lol. Ok, that one is a joke! See? I'm town.
6)”they are trying to deceive everyone to allocate that brainpower”. In the name of the entire mafia players community, i apologize for the ignorant statement of this player, he called you all dumb when you randed wolf and won your respective games, he even called himself dumb in the process.
7) “It's not exactly scientific but it's what i've discerned overtime”. I can see you are the very embodiment of genius.
8) “And your LAMIST behavior comes from stuff like 162 where it seems like a little theatrical”. LAMIST only applies if I was wolf which I'm not. I'm strong in my opinions and I'm a badass player. If you are town, you should spend less time hating on me and more on helping catching wolves.
And if you are scum, I can only hope that your partner is not Tayl0r Swift, otherwise, you are both screwed because you suck.

This sounds like you tried hard to find a reason to find me scum, cast a ridiculous vote on me and see if it gains momentum. This gets you lynched where i come from.

You really think you SCARE me? I eat players like you for breakfast. And I don’t think I had to “try hard” to find those reasons. The joke thing is self-evident and as for why it’s scummy, scum don’t really have the mental bandwidth to be figuring out what is and isn’t a joke effectively, they’re to busy trying to deceive everyone to allocate that brainpower. It’s not exactly scientific but it’s what I’ve discerned over time. And your LAMIST behavior comes from stuff like 162 where it seems a little theatrical to be making that sort of commentary, to the point I find it likely that it is actively staged. The desire to project a townie mindset seems a little TOO strong imo.

Actually no. Think about it. An experienced player who is a newbie to the site they are playing, is an experienced player's nightmare at the site they are a regular on.

It makes me unpredictable and scum want as much control of the room as possible, so unpredictability is something they want to avoid. This is why newbies always die first and this is why your push on me is a tiny bit suspicious.

This take is pretty valid; it’s also why replacements tend to get killed when other options aren’t very compelling.

Yah, replacements are a problem for scum, imagine wolves spending time hard pocketing someone and then they sub out and someone with a clear view of the pocket in question outs them. Happens often!

Now imagine a new member joining your homesite where you spent months if not years providing and gathering meta to control the opponent when you rand wolf and out them when you rand town, and this new player joins a game with non of that and outs you solely based on your behavior in that specific game. That gotta suck! This is when you find wolves casting votes on you for the most ridiculous reasons! Does it ring a bell? No? Keep reading.

Then i dont believe you.

The fact you even started to take the bait on that bothers me

I'm new here, i don't know anyone but Thomas here, so forgive me for not catching troll-like jokes from outed scum.

VOTE: Guillotina
Between taking a joke a bit too seriously and having a pretty hard LAMIST tone I’m okay with this going aorn

This sounds like you tried hard to find a reason to find me scum, cast a ridiculous vote on me and see if it gains momentum. This gets you lynched where i come from.

these posts. keep in mind when i did make that read, i mean i didn't think 'you change your meta as you pleased as either alignment' like you expressed in this game. saying that itself also is often times >rand townie, because you are being super open about your scum range which wolves are often scared to do so.

anyways, these posts read very differently than how you played in pantheon mash. i think i skimmed one of your posts where you greatly complimented your play in pantheon mash, but as a pretty loud townie that survived for many days in that mash, i thought you weren't really present in the thread unless you made posts. that may read weirdly, but it sounded like you only came into thread to SHOW that you were posting and that you were pushing people/doing work. real towns leave an impact in the game that resonates within thread even when they aren't in the thread. whenever you came in, sure, you pushed one or two people, but then you left, and then quite frankly i didnt really think about you after you left.

it is a 55+ person mash, so yes it's a bigger game, but there i think you very much stayed away from getting needless attraction. whereas here, you were openly talking about how you are new to the site, how newbies get killed, and etc against some of the louder players. that's something i didn't see from my one sample size game of yours.

[Guillotina]

If you think I’m an elitist preaching down to you idrc, I’m trying to explain to you why I’ve said what I’ve said. I’m not going to get into an argument with you about this but yes, I do view you as a threat to my chances at catching scum this game which is why I’m fine elimming you even if I don’t have a great read on your alignment. I would say this if you were acting the same way regardless of your experience level, but like I said I used to play that way and know it to come from newer players more often.

That is why I say that your are at elitist arrogant town player or (add to that a selfish one too), because you are willing to yeet another town regardless of him being a PR or not, just because he is a threat to YOUR chances at catching scum. This is a team deduction and cooperation game

Well I will tell you this I must not get policy lynched and if I do, you will immediately regret it as all town will (unless of course, you are scum or the serial killer).
So you are gonna have to work with what you got if you are part of my faction sir.

[Tayl0r Swift]

Why is Taylor ok with this guy answering for her?

so first superbowl speaks for me and then you jump on it and put words in my mouth and say im fine with that. superbowl is scummy for answering the question directed at me, despite the answer being correct. you are scummy for trying to paint it like im partnered with superbowl.

sup er bow l/guillo team

[Tayl0r Swift]

who pocketed who

who pocketed whom*

[superbowl9]

That is why I say that your are at elitist arrogant town player or (add to that a selfish one too), because you are willing to yeet another town regardless of him being a PR or not, just because he is a threat to YOUR chances at catching scum. This is a team deduction and cooperation game

Why would I not want a player gone that hurts my wincon? I've made my position known and if the majority don't agree then you won't get eliminated. Let's compromise, who do you think we can work together to elim? You've been pushing me most of the game so I don't know why you expect me to work with you on that...

[superbowl9]

Why is Taylor ok with this guy answering for her?

so first superbowl speaks for me and then you jump on it and put words in my mouth and say im fine with that. superbowl is scummy for answering the question directed at me, despite the answer being correct. you are scummy for trying to paint it like im partnered with superbowl.

sup er bow l/guillo team

Ima let you finish but Beyonce had one of the best music videos of ALL TIME

[Tayl0r Swift]

i hope im already doing this but VOTE: super bowel

[Tayl0r Swift]

oh oops there may have been an extraneous letter

[Guillotina]

Spoiler:

This sounds like you tried hard to find a reason to find me scum, cast a ridiculous vote on me and see if it gains momentum. This gets you lynched where i come from.

You really think you SCARE me? I eat players like you for breakfast. And I don’t think I had to “try hard” to find those reasons. The joke thing is self-evident and as for why it’s scummy, scum don’t really have the mental bandwidth to be figuring out what is and isn’t a joke effectively, they’re to busy trying to deceive everyone to allocate that brainpower. It’s not exactly scientific but it’s what I’ve discerned over time. And your LAMIST behavior comes from stuff like 162 where it seems a little theatrical to be making that sort of commentary, to the point I find it likely that it is actively staged. The desire to project a townie mindset seems a little TOO strong imo.

Interesting choice of words. “I eat players like you for breakfast” in a game where scum are the cannibals. I know that remark is NAI but it was so funny! Lol.

Let's break this down from a psychological stand point.

1) “You really think you SCARE me”? Denotes that you felt threatened by my words. Why?
2) “I eat players like you for breakfast”. You felt the need to threaten me. Why?
3) “I don't think i had to “try hard” to find those reasons”. Implies doubt, meaning you did try hard to find those reasons.
4) “The joke is self-evident”. Even if it was I don't see how falling for a joke is alignment indicative.

Then the nonsense and vastly hilarious.

5) “scum don’t really have the mental bandwidth to be figuring out what is and isn’t a joke effectively”. Are you really gonna case me for not catching a joke? Lol. Ok, that one is a joke! See? I'm town.
6)”they are trying to deceive everyone to allocate that brainpower”. In the name of the entire mafia players community, i apologize for the ignorant statement of this player, he called you all dumb when you randed wolf and won your respective games, he even called himself dumb in the process.
7) “It's not exactly scientific but it's what i've discerned overtime”. I can see you are the very embodiment of genius.
8) “And your LAMIST behavior comes from stuff like 162 where it seems like a little theatrical”. LAMIST only applies if I was wolf which I'm not. I'm strong in my opinions and I'm a badass player. If you are town, you should spend less time hating on me and more on helping catching wolves.
And if you are scum, I can only hope that your partner is not Tayl0r Swift, otherwise, you are both screwed because you suck.

This sounds like you tried hard to find a reason to find me scum, cast a ridiculous vote on me and see if it gains momentum. This gets you lynched where i come from.

You really think you SCARE me? I eat players like you for breakfast. And I don’t think I had to “try hard” to find those reasons. The joke thing is self-evident and as for why it’s scummy, scum don’t really have the mental bandwidth to be figuring out what is and isn’t a joke effectively, they’re to busy trying to deceive everyone to allocate that brainpower. It’s not exactly scientific but it’s what I’ve discerned over time. And your LAMIST behavior comes from stuff like 162 where it seems a little theatrical to be making that sort of commentary, to the point I find it likely that it is actively staged. The desire to project a townie mindset seems a little TOO strong imo.

Actually no. Think about it. An experienced player who is a newbie to the site they are playing, is an experienced player's nightmare at the site they are a regular on.

It makes me unpredictable and scum want as much control of the room as possible, so unpredictability is something they want to avoid. This is why newbies always die first and this is why your push on me is a tiny bit suspicious.

This take is pretty valid; it’s also why replacements tend to get killed when other options aren’t very compelling.

Yah, replacements are a problem for scum, imagine wolves spending time hard pocketing someone and then they sub out and someone with a clear view of the pocket in question outs them. Happens often!

Now imagine a new member joining your homesite where you spent months if not years providing and gathering meta to control the opponent when you rand wolf and out them when you rand town, and this new player joins a game with non of that and outs you solely based on your behavior in that specific game. That gotta suck! This is when you find wolves casting votes on you for the most ridiculous reasons! Does it ring a bell? No? Keep reading.

Then i dont believe you.

The fact you even started to take the bait on that bothers me

I'm new here, i don't know anyone but Thomas here, so forgive me for not catching troll-like jokes from outed scum.

VOTE: Guillotina
Between taking a joke a bit too seriously and having a pretty hard LAMIST tone I’m okay with this going aorn

This sounds like you tried hard to find a reason to find me scum, cast a ridiculous vote on me and see if it gains momentum. This gets you lynched where i come from.

these posts. keep in mind when i did make that read, i mean i didn't think 'you change your meta as you pleased as either alignment' like you expressed in this game. saying that itself also is often times >rand townie, because you are being super open about your scum range which wolves are often scared to do so.

anyways, these posts read very differently than how you played in pantheon mash. i think i skimmed one of your posts where you greatly complimented your play in pantheon mash, but as a pretty loud townie that survived for many days in that mash, i thought you weren't really present in the thread unless you made posts. that may read weirdly, but it sounded like you only came into thread to SHOW that you were posting and that you were pushing people/doing work. real towns leave an impact in the game that resonates within thread even when they aren't in the thread. whenever you came in, sure, you pushed one or two people, but then you left, and then quite frankly i didnt really think about you after you left.

it is a 55+ person mash, so yes it's a bigger game, but there i think you very much stayed away from getting needless attraction. whereas here, you were openly talking about how you are new to the site, how newbies get killed, and etc against some of the louder players. that's something i didn't see from my one sample size game of yours.

Ok. I like this for the most part. However during the mash I was awful busy with work and I was not gonna read 50 pages on content when I came back from work, so it was hard to keep track. When I got nothing to do, I'm a very engaged wolf like I was in "High Noon" and yah, I change my meta almost every game.

[superbowl9]

i hope im already doing this but VOTE: super bowel

My next avi change is gonna be the shit

[Guillotina]

Why is Taylor ok with this guy answering for her?

so first superbowl speaks for me and then you jump on it and put words in my mouth and say im fine with that. superbowl is scummy for answering the question directed at me, despite the answer being correct. you are scummy for trying to paint it like im partnered with superbowl.

sup er bow l/guillo team

Where did i put words in your mouth?

[Tayl0r Swift]

Why is Taylor ok with this guy answering for her?

so first superbowl speaks for me and then you jump on it and put words in my mouth and say im fine with that. superbowl is scummy for answering the question directed at me, despite the answer being correct. you are scummy for trying to paint it like im partnered with superbowl.

sup er bow l/guillo team

Where did i put words in your mouth?

specifically it was the bit i quoted about me being fine with super bowel answering.

[Guillotina]

That is why I say that your are at elitist arrogant town player or (add to that a selfish one too), because you are willing to yeet another town regardless of him being a PR or not, just because he is a threat to YOUR chances at catching scum. This is a team deduction and cooperation game

Why would I not want a player gone that hurts my wincon? I've made my position known and if the majority don't agree then you won't get eliminated. Let's compromise, who do you think we can work together to elim? You've been pushing me most of the game so I don't know why you expect me to work with you on that...

Are you willing to keep an open mind? Forget that I'm a noob and an outsider.

If you townread me, that should be enough to keep me if you are town. I pushed you yes and hard! But now I think you are not necessarily the mafia faction. I still suspect that you could be the third party, as such faction is ok with getting anyone yeeted (you have displayed that tendency) or the arrogant selfish town player who only thinks about his game experience.

I hate arrogant people but in mafia that could just be an act.

I remember the second game i Played in MU, I was LHF in that game. There was this guy with a huge ego and an arrogant vile attitude and I hated him, I thought it was real. When the game ended he publicly apologized for LHFing me and he's been giving me hints about how to play and stuff. I still got a long way to go but I'm better than back then.
So this you, as much as I hate it could be just be a made up persona or it could be real, but that does not change the fact that there is a chance that you could still be town, but I need to see town leaning interactions and decisions from you.

People I won't yeet on D1: BM, DoubtingThomas, Cat and Chaos

How about you?