PookyTheMagicalBear v Flavor Leaf (Game Over)

[Battle Mage]

Also I saw the town treestump post a lim pool for today, and I think that's an awful post for several reasons: 1) we still have a whole week 2) some of the people in your PoE aren't fully caught up and the game just began like 2 days ago 3) this is just a bad strategy in general because it gives scum license to focus their reads there and ignore doing actual scumhunting elsewhere. I would advise the stump to reconsider.

although i dont agree, i like ircher for town for this.

[Double the Trouble]

pfft lol

That's what I thought too, but Norwee didn't spam at all(all their posts have to do with reads and such). It's Alisae who's the culprit there.

Ace deduction skills as always.

I mean i've quite clearly labelled all of my posts so there really should be no business in confusing me with Alisae.

- Norwee

[Battle Mage]

Is this your "proper catchup"?

ah i missed this, bitchy or what?

who rattled your cage MC?

[MURDERCAT]

Is this your "proper catchup"?

ah i missed this, bitchy or what?

who rattled your cage MC?

I mean NK had like 7 posts at that point

[Double the Trouble]

Can I ask why you're challenging me on the validity of Dunnstral's meta, rather than challenging him? or alternatively, can you show me where you did challenge him?

I didn't exactly and this is his arguement.

Double the Trouble has been obsessed with me ever since I voted them, continuing to pester me when I made it clear I wasn't going to engage with them, they have started to play like the entire game revolves around them, asking for votes between themself and me, and continuously referring back to their own ability to their own ability to read someone.

But perhaps the biggest reason to vote for them is simply that they're annoying. They're annoying, and they're not particularly likely to be town. I mentioned I thought Pichu, Ydrasse, Double were being annoying: I think Ydrasse and Pichu are likely town, I don't think the same for Double.

and my response to this was on this page and a bit after it but why wouldn't I pester them when they're not engaging with me? I want to know whats going on.

I don't see how I'm playing this game like it revolves around me. I'm a bit more tame and reacting to things that happen around me. Just because I am asking Spiffeh and other people how they feel about dunnstral and trying to convince them doesn't mean that I'm acting as if the game revolves around me.

I was also asking for votes on me because I wanted to see which players would vote me. I tend to find people who vote me to be good information especially when there are other wagons happening.

Similarly, I don't see how Dunnstral can reach this conclusion, and Murder, after having played this game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=84987
reaches a different conclusion.

I had dunn as scum for awhile but if people are telling me that we're likely just getting into some TvT I'll put it down. It's not like it was getting anywhere.

[Battle Mage]

In Stumpy we trust.

This'll actually be a problem if we allow it. It's going to be too easy to wash hands of responsibility or commitments if we defer to Pooky for everything. He should have a some say in lynched, but don't empower the slot too much because we'll get ambivalence from town to scum hunt, and we'll have scum just pushing Pook's agenda and looking good.

I think both are mistaken, as they assume Pooky will actually just stick with that list of 4. In reality, he may or may not - at his own discretion. BUT I don't think either are necessarily scum indicative, although the vernacular and tone are creepily similar...

In fact the tone of this statement in general is the type of behavior I'm wary of in general.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Battle Mage

oh Toogeloo, no bueno man. I agree we shouldn't absolve ourselves of responsibility, but I do think we should make use of Pooky's experience and conftown status here. And I'm fine with him setting the rules for us to play by.

[Battle Mage]

Is this your "proper catchup"?

ah i missed this, bitchy or what?

who rattled your cage MC?

I mean NK had like 7 posts at that point

ah i thought it was at me, im reading as if in real time!

[MURDERCAT]

No you're fine

[MURDERCAT]

I'm getting shivers from 1845

VOTE: Polar Bear Express

[Battle Mage]

I'm sure Pooky is working hard to solve the game so we don't have to do that much.

it would help me solve if you also try to solve

this low effort shit is very no bueno

i will put you in the POE if you do not be your radiantly solvy townie self

haha you totally got that "no bueno" thing from me dude!

@Dunn- I know. Maybe it’s due to the lack of volume here compared to there? Like I said I wasn’t feeling any kinda way about it I just clocked it.

VOTE: BM

Let’s kill this double. Truce?

I was actually more engaged in Xenoblade, it's just that the pace was lightning fast so I didn't seem as impressive in comparison

This game has less posts but it's harder to read/engage with because Ydrasse, Pichu, Double the Trouble, Polar Bear Express, and Pooky are all posting low quality content as fast as possible while they're around

VOTE: Double the trouble

Scummy and nobody is vouching for them

I vote them here

In their iso, ctrl + f their mentions of me, they are unsure/radio silence up until I vote them, and then they start asking for reads on me and wrinkling their forehead

this is the most dominant I have ever seen Dunnstral play. now wondering if i've ever seen Dunnstral-scum...

[MURDERCAT]

I know this isn't in the poe but I'm not sure I want to commit on BM/Ircher as of right now as I'm having second thoughts about Ircher.

[Battle Mage]

VOTE: BattleMage

Not really scum reading him but this is my most desired elim out of the four provided by Pooky

Townreading Dunnstral and Ircher, don't have a strong read either way on Double the Trouble but gun to my head I'd say they're town too

im ok with this

Like the biggest thing that both me and norwee agree on is that town!dunn has no agenda.
But this dunnstral very clearly has an agenda and is trying to push it. ESPECIALLY when all I'm asking for them is to justify their read and they refuse to engage with me.

maybe there's merit in this. I'll consult my Dunnstral-meta later. But he's been big townvibing for me so far.

[Battle Mage]

Pooky

- in response to your question, if I'm adding anyone to the PoE I think it's Creature.

[Double the Trouble]

I've just been trusting some of the other players belief (mostly mastina) that its some stupid TvT.

[Battle Mage]

i have never been more excited in my life to see mastina start posting again tbh

because you know Mastina will relentlessly tunnel anyone who questions you?

[Battle Mage]

[quote="In post 1420, Ircher"

i turned up
i saw 28 pages
i used search function for "battle mage"

This is 100% buyable. I do something similar from time to time. Furthermore, given Battle Mage's demeanor, this seems 100% inline as something they would do.

X

Battle Mage himself admitted it's something he's never done before--and for good reason, because it is very much not in character with his towngame whatsoever.[/quote]

i mean, i've never done it before as town

or scum

, so isn't that the definition of being NAI?

I'm not going to re-tread old ground and respond to the Mastina stuff in detail. It's all a bit like this - superficial one-dimensional takes which don't show any evidence of balanced objective assessment. Nothing more grim than watching Mastina and DT massage each other.

[Battle Mage]

I've just been trusting some of the other players belief (mostly mastina) that its some stupid TvT.

Alisae, I've heard you're a good player in your own right. Do you normally just pick someone at random to sheep, rather than following your own reads?

[Battle Mage]

also Alisae, would love to hear your honest take on Mastina's activity case on me, and my subsequent rebuttal

[Double the Trouble]

I wouldn't say its random but its something that I do. Especially when said player is known to be really good at reading another player on the table.
I'm not that confident in my reads early unless scum are just being obvious.

pedit: The activity case?
Probably more likely to come from her town gameplay than her scum gameplay based off of my experiences with her.

[Double the Trouble]

I tend to follow my own reads later, but that requires me to have a solid grasp of the gamestate.

[Double the Trouble]

What do you think about Polar Bears BM?

[Battle Mage]

Mastina, I hate to do this, but per the spoilers below you are going to look very silly if/when I flip in this game. On the good-faith you might be town, can I ask that, after I flip, you engage in some careful self-reflection about your ability to read me, and how you express the strength of your reads in general. I think your approach has 3 main pitfalls:

1. When you bury somebody under tonnes of content, it makes it difficult for them to engage with you and show you where you have made errors, and it's also a bit trolly when you do it to me every game without much substance to back it up, or any sense that you even care what I say.
2. When you invest a lot of time and effort into a case on somebody, I think you struggle to come to terms with the fact you may just be wrong and have to go back to the drawing board - but there is really no shame in that. Mafia is a game where you need to try and be objective and you should leave room for your reads to evolve.
3. By expressing such absolute confidence in your reads, you harm your own credibility and paint yourself into a corner whenever you're wrong. I'm not a big fan of people using phrases like "conftown" or "confscum" without good reason, as those should be reserved for things like mech certainties. Using hyperbole when it isn't warranted will always read as scummy, and not everyone will know it is your meta.

Spoiler:

ok as you can tell I've run out of steam...I'll keep going tomorrow until I catch up

Ah yes.

Your 'content' can be summed up as:
Polar Bear Express is an unlikely FL pick (this is fair); Ali/Norwee would be a top pick (this is a bad take that fuels the paranoia on the slot when it's pretty damn clearly false).

Speculating that the confscum talking indicates I am scum (this is a bad take for pretty obvious reasons); calling mastina-Dunn one town/one scum also off of the confscum (this is also a bad take for the same obvious reasons); Bell town (this is fair, as BM should see Bell's townness); reaffirming Noraa's town (this is fair); calling Ydrasse scum (this is a bad take).

Asking for a heads up if at L-1, proving that you're reading the thread because what good would this notification do for you if you weren't? (this is important enough of something that I'm going to requote that post to point it out since I missed this implication the first time).

Calling Toogeloo town (this is fair).

Elaborating on your stance which proves you are reading the game without commenting on it.

Placing an opportunistic vote on Double the Trouble and indicating you are aware that the ic said that there were four names in contention with Ircher and Double Trouble as two of them.

Taking back the bad-Ydrasse take and calling Ydrasse town (this is fair).

Calling Solstice scum, a take that's questionable (I cannot in good faith call it a bad take because there's at least some merit to the accusation, but it is still a questionable stance to take due to the ease and convenience of it).

Calling pichu town (this is fair).

A fluff post, followed by another fluff post.

And then you declaring you're out of steam.

So to reiterate.
Bad reads on 2-5 slots, where you do take back the bad read on one but leave the bad reads on the others.
Good reads on 4, later 5, slots.

And nothing more.

You've developed reads on a grand total of 9 slots (if I am being generous), in a 17-player game. After having read 730 posts, where every slot had posted at least once in that timeframe. You have reads, half of which are bad, on literally only half the playerlist.

Why are people thinking this is in any way Battle Mage as town?
He's being lazy.
He's making bad, easy takes, and avoiding taking stances on most players.
He's refusing to give the game much in the way of actual content.
And this is him after his V/LA has ended.

can someone give me a heads up if i get to -1 so i can claim? lol

it's best to give warning when you put someone at E-1 so they can claim, in case they are a power role, or just because it's good practice/good for the game.

To reiterate:

Battle Mage claimed yesterday that, while on his V/LA, he was not reading the thread.
Battle Mage is asking that, if he is put to L-1, for it to be announced.
If Battle Mage was not reading the thread,

how would he be able to see the declaration of being at L-1

?

To see that he's at L-1 inherently requires that he is reading the thread enough to know it has happened...something he previously said he wasn't doing. To refresh your memory:

HOW DO YOU FIND THE ONE POST THAT CALLS YOU OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUNCH OF PAGE
WHAT
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN

i turned up
i saw 28 pages
i used search function for "battle mage"
I spent 5 minutes wondering why the fuck somebody had posted Morning Mage quotes.
i responded to a nice msg from Norwee

He claimed he responded to the message not due to reading the thread, but finding it with a search.

HOW DO YOU FIND THE ONE POST THAT CALLS YOU OUT IN THE MIDDLE OF A BUNCH OF PAGE
WHAT
HOW DOES THAT HAPPEN

i turned up
i saw 28 pages
i used search function for "battle mage"
I spent 5 minutes wondering why the fuck somebody had posted Morning Mage quotes.
i responded to a nice msg from Norwee

i mean yes but why

i dunno, never done it before tbh. *shrug*

But when asked why he, allegedly, searched for his name inthread, he answers he doesn't know why and that he's never done it before.

So he's claiming he wasn't reading, that he found it through doing something he's never done before and had no reason to do here...but he wants to know if he gets to L-1 which requires...him to be reading the thread.

Which is cemented here:

also better VOTE: double the trouble as I owe Ircher one.

This post is indicative that Battle Mage is aware that Pooky made a pool of 4 players to eliminate within, containing both Ircher and Double the Trouble. It's a case of TMI given his stated narrative.

None of the posts in that range mentioned Pooky's pool of four, and yet somehow Battle Mage knows to vote Double the Trouble, one of the names in that pool of four, over Ircher, another name in the pool of four?

I call bullshit.

Battle Mage has read most of the thread already. Maybe genuinely not all of it, but he knows far, far more than he is pretending he knows.

every1 already voting in the POE-4 pls give me your top SR and top TR in the POE-4 with reasons thanks.

My top scumread is Battle Mage because almost all of his claims are full of shit.

I know for a fact he posted content in other games during the time period he claims to have been V/LA in this game. In spite of no content in this game.

I know for a fact that his claim to have searched for his name is bullshit because this is the search result that'd be generated from it. It is far, far more likely that he was reading during his V/LA and not giving content, but felt the need to give a pop-in, so he invented an excuse to do so, banking on nobody checking his claimed method and hoping nobody would call this behavior out.

I know that he's softing a power role, but I know for a fact that the way he's doing so is his scum meta because town-BM does not soft in that way whereas scum-BM does.

Battle Mage's play here is his scum meta through and through, start to finish.

As for top townread, that I cannot give you as two of my top townreads are in your pool and you asked for me to describe only one--but Dunnstral and Double the Trouble are both equally not-scum to me in both being locktown reads of mine in my townbloc.

[Battle Mage]

I wouldn't say its random but its something that I do. Especially when said player is known to be really good at reading another player on the table.
I'm not that confident in my reads early unless scum are just being obvious.

pedit: The activity case?
Probably more likely to come from her town gameplay than her scum gameplay based off of my experiences with her.

who is mastina good at reading?

on the activity case, I meant the merits of it, rather than what it meant for her alignment.

[Battle Mage]

What do you think about Polar Bears BM?

they are fine

[Double the Trouble]

who is mastina good at reading?

i wouldn't say she's "good" at reading any particular player in the playerlist, I just think that she's likely town and while reading some of her posts on you they seem to make sense.