Changes to Normal Games (update September 2022)

[Ythan]

The issue here is referring to a traffic analyst variant as a something cop in a game with gunsmiths. It should probably have been called something else if that's how it's gonna be.

[TemporalLich]

you really can just call it a PT analyst... why isn't it called a PT analyst?

[Isis]

Gunsmiths are clearly intended to be a special kind of flavor cop.

Gunsmith gets different results on Follower vs. Rolecop even though those roles are highly similar.
It's not a mechanics based role, it fails on serial killers not for balance reasons but because of the flavor of knife murders.

I changed the wiki this seems like a very clear oversight from PT cop being the most recently created cop and being newer than gunsmith.

[Ythan]

Neat!

[Gypyx]

Nice

[Umlaut]

This still seems to be the usual thread for general questions about Normal rules, so here's a general question.

If a Traffic Analyst targets a Night 2 Mailman on Night 1, or an X-Shot Mailman who has used all their shots, my understanding is they should get a negative result. Is this understanding correct?

[Gypyx]

This still seems to be the usual thread for general questions about Normal rules, so here's a general question.

If a Traffic Analyst targets a Night 2 Mailman on Night 1, or an X-Shot Mailman who has used all their shots, my understanding is they should get a negative result. Is this understanding correct?

i'd say that

night 2 : positive, as he still posesses the ability to mail, just that he can't do it yet

all shots used : the mailman can't use his abilty anymore, so it's a negative

[Isis]

p sure that's right

[Firefly7]

I know this is a repeat suggestion from 249 but a binary Tracker would be a very useful role. It's a natural step down from Motion Detector, like Vanilla Cop but searching for different things.

[TemporalLich]

I feel like multiball / serial killer change the game's expectations a lot and should probably be something that is declared on signups (standard alignment, multiball, serial killer, or multiball with serial killer)

bear in mind I'd usually consider something that changes the game's expectations a lot not Normal but I think Normal Multiball is a valid type of game.

[Gypyx]

when was the last normal multiball?

[Not_Mafia]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=86452

Time to make this official?

[mastina]

It should probably be a mod call imo not a site call.

[Ythan]

It doesn't really feel like a matter of taste though so much as understanding that 50% is sufficient or not understanding.

[Gamma Emerald]

I really do think it should either be standardized site-wide or spelled out by the mod in the rules
The issue imo is not knowing

[Ythan]

We could both allow mods to spell it out and establish a standard for games in which they don't. Win win?

[Gamma Emerald]

sure
basically how the rules are for replacing into a slot you previously replaced out of.

[implosion]

I agree it's something that should always be unambiguous. I don't know if the best way to do that is with a standard rather than something like a strong suggestion/requirement that it be listed one way or the other in rulesets. It's not something that's typically particularly high-stakes in the sense that a rules misinterpretation will horribly warp the outcome of a game (since a no-lim is almost never going to be followed by the game ending in night). I can potentially be convinced though.

[TemporalLich]

A no-lim in a 4p MeLo (which the 50% issue matters the most - as it is even and low) would require a bad Vigilante shot to result in the game ending in Night.

Scum Vigilante isn't normal, so this would usually be the result of the Town Vig being overconfident.

A no-lim in a 4p Dilemma (possible in a Large game) usually will end in Night, allowing 50% to no-lim would allow both Townies to no-lim without needing one of the scum to agree.

[Ircher]

I really do think this is something that should be explicit. I know that in the past, I've been caught by surprise in some games where the threshold was exactly 50%.

[Ircher]

Like, in terms of game impact, it may be relatively low, but people rely on the thresholds to know whether or not it is safe to vote something, and even in the case of No Lim, people might still vote it while not quite being ready for the day to end.

[Not_Mafia]

We could both allow mods to spell it out and establish a standard for games in which they don't. Win win?

This could be a fair compromise? Default is hammer occurs at 50%, but mods can do 50%+1 if they specifically add it to their ruleset

[TemporalLich]

Roles I'd personally want to see discussed for Normality:

Reporter

(checks if someone acted or not),

Inspector

(checks if someone was targeted or not),

Superstar

(allows your role (as a Role Cop sees it) to be revealed),

Strongman as a modifier

(makes an action unblockable),

Modifier Cop

(learns what modifiers apply to someone),

[modifier]-Finder

([role]-Finder with a modifier e.g. 1-shot-Finder or Loyal-Finder),

Security Guard

(lets someone know who targeted them besides you - basically a reverse Watcher),

Visionary

(lets someone know what targeted them besides you - basically a reverse Voyeur).

Alternate role names I want to see discussed:

Mailman >

Messenger

Strongman >

Juggernaut

Probably won't be normal but I can wish:

Moonlight Dancer

(can reveal that they are a Moonlight Dancer once every phase)

Interceptor

(redirects someone's actions to you)

Paladin

(redirects actions targeting someone to you)

[Umlaut]

I doubt that redirection of any kind will ever be normal.

[TemporalLich]

I doubt that redirection of any kind will ever be normal.

Bodyguard is a redirection role.

In fact, it's very close to a

Paladin

if it were limited to affecting kills (Bodyguard can't protect from a multikill, while a kill-specific Paladin still could).

I want to add one more role to the discussion, a

Shield

that is to the Interceptor as a Bodyguard is to a Paladin. That is, the

Shield

can target someone performing a kill to take the kill instead of the target.