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[bugspray]

what is a tmi? i get it means too much information but i don't get it in this context deadass

[joqiza]

Bugs, what exactly changed between 1407 and 1677 w.r.t. your read on Trendall/ejjinami? How did you go from feeling ejjinami was "spewing scum" in 1410 to joining a Luca counterwagon with them? It looks like you just hopped on the wagon with them in 1677 without further thought. If you've had progression on them you haven't explained it.

[joqiza]

This is what I meant about the neighborhood making the game more confusing. It's not inconceivable to me that you two talked things out in the hood, your read evolved, and you started TR'ing them. I could see a universe where that could occur. But I can't actually vet if that happened or not because FMPOV it looks like you just turned on a dime and hopped on a wagon next to one of your top scumreads.

[Lunar Martian]

VOTE: bugspray

Back to E-1.

[joqiza]

Going to request no one hammer here. I understand there's some impatience, but I'd still like to hear all slots out. I don't have the same level of certainty that many of you seem to possess when it comes to your respective solves.

[OutWorldER]

what is a tmi? i get it means too much information but i don't get it in this context deadass

Frogster (not knowing how traitor works on this site) thinks that you and Mom were trying to signal to Lunar your folks alignment.
Your response is: "Flip Lunar to clear me". In this context, the thing that would clear you would be Lunar flipping Town, so it sounds like, ya know, you know Lunar's town.

[joqiza]

Of the two, looking at the mechanics, it would make more sense for Gamma to be the mafia member just because if there was a town backup neighbor and a scum backup neighbor, and neither knows that the other role exists, for bugs to claim backup neighbor under pressure to do so seems too pure.

@Galron

Why would bugs claiming backup neighbor under pressure be too pure? It seems natural to me for a scum back-up neighbor to claim their role (minus alignment) when pressured.

[joqiza]

I have some thoughts about the current gamestate that I'll share but I want a couple things first. First, I'd like to get some clarification from bugspray about where their head is at, because their "view of the game" is the one I'm having the most trouble understanding. I also want to hear from the people currently on the Luca wagon: are your votes/scumreads on Luca mainly a conclusion of a TR on bugs?

[Gamma Emerald]

I've been prodding at bugspray in the hood and I feel like he's not really following through on his mindset that the PR claims are too much rn

[Luca Blight]

VOTE: Luca

Doing this so Luca can make an omgus claim.

This is pure desperation.

[Luca Blight]

@ejj: I now agree that Lunar is Town, but why do you think Galron is?

Consider that Bugs is scum, along with Momrangal who is already confirmed, and look through his ISO - there has been an agenda since the start. I might make a case once I get to a computer.

[bugspray]

what is a tmi? i get it means too much information but i don't get it in this context deadass

Frogster (not knowing how traitor works on this site) thinks that you and Mom were trying to signal to Lunar your folks alignment.
Your response is: "Flip Lunar to clear me". In this context, the thing that would clear you would be Lunar flipping Town, so it sounds like, ya know, you know Lunar's town.

What? I thought a red lunar flip would confirm me in that case but I've been barely reading this game

[Lunar Martian]

what is a tmi? i get it means too much information but i don't get it in this context deadass

Frogster (not knowing how traitor works on this site) thinks that you and Mom were trying to signal to Lunar your folks alignment.
Your response is: "Flip Lunar to clear me". In this context, the thing that would clear you would be Lunar flipping Town, so it sounds like, ya know, you know Lunar's town.

What? I thought a red lunar flip would confirm me in that case but I've been barely reading this game

How would that confirm you?

[Gamma Emerald]

yeah wut
people are saying you're scum with lunar

[Lunar Martian]

VOTE: bugs

Also bugs in what world would flipping me clear you?

Gamma ignored this question last it was asked.

[Luca Blight]

Just about every meaningful post Galron has made has had scum motive behind it, from the perspective of a Galron/Momrangal/Bugs team:

VOTE: frogsterking personality tests are pseudoscience

This is the correct answer.

VOTE: forgsterking

Backs up Bugs and undermines the strong Town voice early on.

The assumptions I'm running on are that 3/3 scum are all in the low activity end, because they aren't sure how to lie yet and are reacting to their own lies

Scum have no need to lie early game in general.

Low activity posters reacting to their own lies? If they're not posting they're not lying.

Your implication that the low activity posters are inexperienced at scum is dreadfully faulty and supported by nothing.

Your assumptions and early posting are vapid attempts at intellectual prowess that seemed to be designed to mislead. I think you're likely scum.

Casts suspicion on the early strong Town voice. Rejects the idea that scum are in the lower posters (Frogster's theory was correct). Side note: whatever happened to his SR on Frogs?

I'm not convinced wagons on bugs or npom are worth pursuing atm. They're both cryptic early gamers. Bugs we can ring up, but I don't know that we accomplish anything by pushing to claim. Npom sounds like his claim will be mundane.

Sigh...

I guess I should move just to get wagons moving

VOTE: lunar

Dubious reasoning for protecting Bugs. Tries to push the Lunar wagon instead.

I personally don't see much of a town Bloc.

Undermines the (mostly pure) townbloc. Galron is the only scum in this bloc, and he is by far the least active member of this group, and probably doesn't feel as though he can carry his team at this stage. He realised his partners could become wagoned by the townbloc at any time, so looks to break up this unity. It's also worth noting that Bugs was the leading wagon at this point, with two townbloc members (three if you include me) voting them.

I"m good with executing Lunar Martian, especially after that last paranoid post where he though Luca was talking about him. That sounds like a caught (and not paranoid town) maf.

Reasserts his belief in the Lunar wagon, as the tide turns their way.

Can we consolidate on Lunar and Bugspray? I'm less convinced that Bugs is scum than Lunar, but there seems to be a lack of focus and we need to elim someone. My take on Bugs is pure meta. I haven't seen anything different from them this game than others I've been in with them. They're almost always on the rack early game -- it's a style thing with Bugs I think. Lunar, on the other hand, just feels scummy to me, a dose of AtE along with caught in the headlights.

With Lunar and Bugs at 4 votes each, Galron calls for consolidation onto one of these wagons. He makes out as though he is open to a Bugs elim, while clearly trying to persuade people onto joining the Lunar wagon instead. This helps save his partner, while covering his ass in case Bugs is eliminated.

I'm willing to go Oram or Lunar Martian.

Is quick to back the Oram wagon and forget about Bugs.

It's about too late to claim and cfd. I'd say you're good to hammer npom. 6 hours left.

Avoids getting his hands dirty by encouraging NPOM to drop the hammer on Oram instead of doing it himself.

I agree that outworlder needs an eyeball tonight whoever is able to provide that.

Encourages an invest on a Town player.

I'm still agnostic on Bugs tbh, probably town lean. Their willingness to share info from the hood but only after getting the okay doesn't seem like something mafia would do.

D2 - Continues to defend Bugs.

I'm more confident in Trendall than in bugs, but if no one else is going to vote bugs today I'll switch. Could I ask everyone to give me a reason they don't want to vote Trendall though?

I think Trendell and Bugs are both town.

Again defends Bugs.

I'm suspicious of the people who want to get rid of Bugs, who is a conduit to the hood, but not Gamma. It wasn't until recently that Gamma even shared anything from the hood, if I recall correctly.

Casts suspicion onto those who suspect Bugs in an indirect manner. Galron has never stated any suspicion of me by this point, but you can see he's building up to it with posts like these.

In the hood I've been town reading Trendall and Bugs, and more recently leaning townish on Gamma, with reservations on the latter. Bugs was willing to be a spokesperson and passed along some information and made sure to ask what we wanted passed along, and they've just generally been solvy to the point of raising concerns about me more recently. Trendall is extremely solvy in the hood. So I don't think it's a good idea to eliminate Trendall or Bugs ( caveat: I need to learn more about this guilty that frogster has -- I don't see a crumb but I've been moving through the thread pretty quickly).

And it should also be known that Amelie wanted to pass along that she was townreading momrangel, but with Grendel's guilty, that depends on how much everyone trusts Grendel.

TR's Bugs for passing on info from the hood (an easy plan that doesn't hurt scum at all) and tries to do damage control on Momrangal.

Starting to suspect a Grendel/Luca team.

Casts suspicion on the Town invest in the hope of saving Momrangal. Note that even though he was proven wrong about his Grendel and Momrangal reads, he continues to read the game in exactly the same manner without reassessing.

It seems to me that Galron has gone out of his way to defend Bugs/deflect attention away from them on a few occasions.

This is true. I've defended Bugs. I think he's town.

It's never quite clear when Bugs went from being a null read to a hard town read for Galron. Is sharing info from the hood really a justifiable reason to locktown someone?

It seems to me that Galron has gone out of his way to defend Bugs/deflect attention away from them on a few occasions.

This is true. I've defended Bugs. I think he's town.

That was shade out of nowhere with no follow-up from Luca.

This is from the guy who has been indirectly shading me for half the game and accused me of being scum with Grendel at the end of D2.

I mean, bugs claimed backup neighbor. A neighbor was killed, and bugs became a neighbor. Gamma claimed backup neighbor (in the hood) also. For bugs to be traitor, bugs would've had to have not known about Gamma. It's possible either bugs or gamma (or both -- really doubt) are scum. Of the two, looking at the mechanics, it would make more sense for Gamma to be the mafia member just because if there was a town backup neighbor and a scum backup neighbor, and neither knows that the other role exists, for bugs to claim backup neighbor under pressure to do so seems too pure. And then there was no cc from Gamma. I've been town reading Gamma, so I don't know that that's AI, but if we're comparing the two, I think it's more likely Gamma's scum than Bugs.

Tentatively puts forward Gamma as being scum in place of Bugs.

VOTE: Luca

Doing this so Luca can make an omgus claim.

Finally commits his vote to me, and preemptively says I'll make an omgus claim. I think it's pretty clear from this progression that Galron has been setting himself up to SR me ever since I figured out Bugs is scum, and he's waited until the last possible moment to lay down his cards. Isn't it weird how he's voting me so I'll make an omgus clam, rather than because he actually believes I'm scum?

[Luca Blight]

"

And it should also be known that Amelie wanted to pass along that she was townreading momrangel, but with Grendel's guilty, that depends on how much everyone trusts Grendel.

"

I've just realised this line was intended to make people believe that scum tried to kill Momrangal.

Also, if Amiele revealed her role or hinted at it in the hood, this could be motive behind scum directly killing Amiele - because it would give Momrangal significant towncred.

[ejjinami]

......
ngl, yesterday’s conversation completely sucked out all my wim out of me

Scum-reading lunar at this point is just not smart imo. I’m sorry
I’m starting to see how I got 1/100 in agreeableness lmao
even tho, the only thing this can probably be applied to are my town-reads :/

I have nothing to say about that anymore. I feel that if I were to argue more I’d just end up going completely inactive

over appearing and just agreeing that “yes yes, it must be bugs and lunar” feels really goddamn lazy

I feel like I must reread luca anyway because I got a very different vibe while talking to him than while catching up before I replaced in
but my wim is pretty much dead.

Someone voting me or giving me some sort of timer to finish the read would be appreciated....
actually, I don’t know what I need. I’ll jsut try to get this done

[ejjinami]

@ejj: I now agree that Lunar is Town, but why do you think Galron is?

because I have an invisible, magical unicorn friend who whispered sweet nothings into my ears and shared their secrets with me

I cannot answer that question. He’s not getting lynched so that’s good at least

[ejjinami]

VOTE: Luca

Doing this so Luca can make an omgus claim.

This is pure desperation.

galron suspected you since yesterday. You just don’t have access to all of their posts

He said that you were one of his bigger suspects at night in response to me screaming about my reads in the hood

[joqiza]

Bugspray can you answer my questions please?

[bugspray]

Bugspray can you answer my questions please?

put them all in one post, i have trouble responding to scatter

[joqiza]

.Someone voting me or giving me some sort of timer to finish the read would be appreciated....
actually, I don’t know what I need. I’ll jsut try to get this done

I'm not going to vote you, but at some point I'm going to hammer bugspray if they don't bother to respond to me. So of you TR them that can be your incentive/timer. Let's say 48 hours.

I think you need to understand what this game looks like from the perspective of someone outside the hood. Right now, three members of the neighborhood are voting as a bloc: you, Galron, and bugs are voting Luca. Of those three, your progression today is the only one that's visible and even coherent to me. When did bugspray's mindset today change from FOSing you to being comfortable with joining a wagon you created? What is the basis for Galron's suspicion on Luca?

I think you @ejjinami, have done an okay job so far of explaining your thought process, but the same can't be said for Galron/bugs. So you need to push them to respond to me in thread. I am here and listening, my method of solving games generally involves trying to hear out every player's perspective. I can't do that if they ignore my posts.

Also, to be clear, I'm still not following the SR's on Luca. My read on Luca is based mainly on partner interactions with the Momrangel slot and secondly on a townread of his playstyle independent to what bugs flips. It appears to me so far that the scumread/counterwagon on Luca is contingent on a townread on bugspray (if there are other reasons, I haven't seen them). But to me, town!bugspray does not necessarily imply scum!Luca.

If I'm reading Luca wrong, I'd like to understand. Do you have a case on him that extends further then "he's pushing on people I think are town." This perspective is what I need from y'all in the hood today.

P-edit: Just saw bugs response, still going to post this, but thx
bugs and you can take your time to get your thoughts in order.

[bugspray]

i don't get how flip lm to clear me is tmi
there's two outcomes
1) lm flips town and that clears me but I don't remember why
2) lm flips scum and we get a scum elim
it's win win because with me proven green we have a very good poe pool for yeetlo and can sinch a town win

[bugspray]

it's a good idea to use deadline tags for "gonna hammer heres a timer"