TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

[Cephrir]

hopkirk, i guess, bc yes im townreading oka and havent said so until this moment

[Cephrir]

if anypne's wondering oka feels very engaged and sincere and like, the game i remember with him i thought he might be too scummy to be scum and he was actually scum, so i'm a bit dubious about his ability to fake the just like, happy lighthearted mood that radiates from his posts

[hercule]

yea oka is towny as fuck

[unwnd]

Yeah my townlist looks like

Ceph
ABR
Oka
Hercule
(A50)

[innocentvillager]

if anypne's wondering oka feels very engaged and sincere and like, the game i remember with him i thought he might be too scummy to be scum and he was actually scum, so i'm a bit dubious about his ability to fake the just like, happy lighthearted mood that radiates from his posts

yea oka is towny as fuck

i was wondering tbh yeah

so it's mostly just a tonal read?

[unwnd]

Right now outside of hopkirk vote I am looking at

Flakes/the worst/Titus/Dunn

Then maybe DGB. I can't remember why I scumread IV but it's probably outdated. I want to look into AGar more sincerely before I decide if it was a great vote after all

[unwnd]

Just to scare you guys I am capable of faking laziness as scum and making posts like this (and bad cases)

But Ceph is right this is not the game

[OkaPoka]

if anypne's wondering oka feels very engaged and sincere and like, the game i remember with him i thought he might be too scummy to be scum and he was actually scum, so i'm a bit dubious about his ability to fake the just like, happy lighthearted mood that radiates from his posts

aww my heart just melted

[hercule]

Yeah my townlist looks like

Ceph
ABR
Oka
Hercule
(A50)

maybe you've explained this somewhere but can you give me the context of your TR on ABR?

if anypne's wondering oka feels very engaged and sincere and like, the game i remember with him i thought he might be too scummy to be scum and he was actually scum, so i'm a bit dubious about his ability to fake the just like, happy lighthearted mood that radiates from his posts

yea oka is towny as fuck

i was wondering tbh yeah

so it's mostly just a tonal read?

I think the best way I could describe why I think Oka is town is the lack of scum agenda. Yeah the tone is good, but when he is doing stuff like stating plainly what koba told him to do if he flipped scum, discrediting multiple scumreads, asking relevant questions, trying to stop what he perceives to be town v town, taking initiative to form a townblock, it just seems antithetical to how mafia would approach the game. it's a direct mindset as well

[OkaPoka]

its bad form the comment on things that pat yourself on the shoulder but thank your the warm fuzzies

[OkaPoka]

thank you for*

[DrippingGoofball]

Tabarnak.

VOTE: AGar

[AGar]

I think I did elaborate on it twice but yeah in an 18 person game I don't feel the need to chime in on everything, and the bw on you was interesting to me but I didn't feel the need to discuss it, just let it run its course and see if anything shakes out, and if there's something interesting to me I will comment on it. It would have been highly surprising to me if people actually even put you at, say, L-2, at that point in the day. When I gave the snap reads to Hopkirk I didn't realize how small your ISO was, I was mainly just trying to answer each question off-the-cuff. I only dug into Titus' ISO because I realized I didn't remember a single thing they had said or done. Sorry if my attention to your slot was lacking at that point lmao it's a big ass game you're just gonna have to deal with it

I mean, it was *the* thing happening in the game.

And I was put at E-2 *twice*.

Like this is just wildly off kilter for someone who is seemingly trying to be very engaged.

[DrippingGoofball]

AGar, you didn't think I'd let that fabricated-by-scum case on me slide, did you???

==============

AGar!scum is shackled by the scum's anxiety about changing their minds about their reads, so when asked about an old scumread of me, he feels it's safer and less suspicious to dig his heels in and maintain the fakeread, even though it has to be based on obsolete information, or in AGar's case, obscenely false or distorted accounts of the facts.

[Cephrir]

if anypne's wondering oka feels very engaged and sincere and like, the game i remember with him i thought he might be too scummy to be scum and he was actually scum, so i'm a bit dubious about his ability to fake the just like, happy lighthearted mood that radiates from his posts

yea oka is towny as fuck

i was wondering tbh yeah

so it's mostly just a tonal read?

on my end, yeah, i suppose so. he's solving, too.

[Cephrir]

Just to scare you guys I am capable of faking laziness as scum and making posts like this (and bad cases)

But Ceph is right this is not the game

me too :3

[DrippingGoofball]

ABR, is your vote for grabs?

I would like place a bid for your vote on AGar.

[hercule]

I think I did elaborate on it twice but yeah in an 18 person game I don't feel the need to chime in on everything, and the bw on you was interesting to me but I didn't feel the need to discuss it, just let it run its course and see if anything shakes out, and if there's something interesting to me I will comment on it. It would have been highly surprising to me if people actually even put you at, say, L-2, at that point in the day. When I gave the snap reads to Hopkirk I didn't realize how small your ISO was, I was mainly just trying to answer each question off-the-cuff. I only dug into Titus' ISO because I realized I didn't remember a single thing they had said or done. Sorry if my attention to your slot was lacking at that point lmao it's a big ass game you're just gonna have to deal with it

I mean, it was *the* thing happening in the game.

And I was put at E-2 *twice*.

Like this is just wildly off kilter for someone who is seemingly trying to be very engaged.

Oh true I guess you did LMAO. Idk why I just never processed that, I just assumed no one would try to genuinely put someone over the edge that early, and I guess if it did happen we could just deal with the ramifications later (i.e. if you flipped town one of the last two votes is almost certainly a scumclaim). It just wasn't that serious to me idk what else to tell ya mate, felt like something I could sort through at my leisure and had no pressing desire to interject myself. Genuinely have nothing else to say about the subject

[Cephrir]

VOTE: winter flakes

[DrippingGoofball]

AGar was put at E-2 twice?

HA

[DrippingGoofball]

Scum would bus AGar Day 1. Those wagons will be a gold mine.

[Dunnstral]

dgb I will update you on Ythan I’ll need to look there again, had him as a townlean for early posting

so I think I was townleaning Ythan pre-212 because of the brashness/tone that he didn't care about his thread presence. I thought the 1v1 with hercule was potentially +town and even the little things like "Morning friends." and just leaving.

Looking at him post-212 he gives a similar vibe. I remember it was almost impossible to figure out what reads/stance town!Ythan had in this one game we played (Open 786) and this isn't the same but still reminiscent of that. OTOH some scum just don't give a fuck about thread presence so im willing to accept this *could* be NAI behavior from Ythan if others know him better. Two reactions stuck out to me:

1) 728, 734, 738.
-nothing crazy here but this kind of indifference to hercule/stubborness about his own read feels genuine? ("it's my read and what i saw/think, so, whatever, deal with it" -kind of attitude)

2) His scumlean on me is random and not substantiated (764, 767, 780, 794, 795, 799)
-essentially he quoted some random post of mine that was weird, then said i along with 2 others gave him "jitters". since he didn't say anything else about it I tried to pin him down on whether or not that post was why he was scumreading me and he basically insinuated that I was misrepping him/"changing it".

Idk, it just feels like a towny mindset that like he has this nebula of thoughts on why I'm scummy then picked out an additional quote from me he thought was weird, and then when asked whether or not that was the reason, he felt like I was asking something really strange. It's possible I've completely misinterpreted this interaction but I'd expect scum!Ythan to realize that my line of questioning is genuine so it's obviously coming from

somewhere

(because he knows im town), then respond in a less "aggressive" (i can't think of a fitting word, maybe light aggression lol) manner

i think, with all this in mind im seeing Ythan as a player who is simply here to have a good time and completely and utterly unconcerned with thread presence/public continuation of thought. he appears to believe what he sees/interprets and gets shows suspicions when others try to challenge the authenticity of his thoughts (hercule, me). im therefore leaning town on ythan, without any real meta knowledge of his scumrange.

she strongly scumread IV at the time but probably agrees with me at this point that he's more likely town (she's anxious about his cutesie/clueless approach to the game because he's proven able to emulate it as scum, but i do think he's pushing himself with reads in a way which he'd struggle with as scum - this is an epic tangent).

while i'm going back i made a note that viewtopic.php?p=12522178#p12522178 <== this was either co-written or outside of IV's scumrange, and probably not cowritten because it missed dancefloor

im not sure how i feel about you flipping on me so easily, was my scumgame in 2160 really that devoid of reads/analysis? (lmao if that's what you thought it was that's fine)

if i was scum here i would absolutely be pushing myself here despite probably hating myself for most of it as well since this is a big team event (if it was a regular game, fuck that lol), and since it's easier for me to deepwolf through D1. i think a decent amount of 2160 was like, just barely outside my scumrange at that time. You know that im the kind of person who doesn't like to let teammates down, lol.

idk, i just remember you using the argument "i think innocentvillager would be really struggling here to post the way he's been doing as scum" in 2160, and now you're using that same argument despite being wrong on it once which makes me wonder what's different here to you.

OK.

I like the way innocentvillagers is analyzing things today, especially in these posts. It's enough for me to pull back from here.

UNVOTE: InnocentVillager

[Dunnstral]

okay so let's form the read unwnd committee

dunnstral, titus, innocent villager are the members of this committee

Unwnd saying they'd be willing to vote for me with no further explanation is +++scum especially with his team, for multiple reasons.

[DrippingGoofball]

more immediately, agar - what is DGB doing as scum?

I did qualify this in 840 that some of this is gut driven, but DGB came out of the gate with a confidence that pinged as off. DGB's reads have been mostly of the blasé unimpeachable variety, but I felt that the read on Hopkirk in 332 was trying to slip one by and put feelers out based on distorting the facts. The denial of noticing ABR in 667 felt cagey and weirdly unnecessary to say "I barely noticed them" rather than attempting to coalition with a player that DGB wasn't actively scumreading. Townblocking and townhunting is fine and the hot new rage, but the absolute scarcity of engagement with anyone that DGB hasn't townblocked is concerning, and a naked readslist seems useless and actively trying to pass off as doing something in a format where you have teammates. Zero attempts to engage with the current wagon, zero attempts to parse other spots for pressure, and zero attempts to parse out the burgeoning null-list that is growing. As far as I'll dive into meta is I know DGB plays an, um, unconventional game. But this stinks of scum.

Let's parse.

• DGB came out of the gate with a confidence that pinged as off.
  - One would think that a seasoned player like AGar would be familiar with the fake bravado of RVS. It's not supposed to be actually convincing, and to get hung up on RVS shenanigans is perfectly acceptable during the RVS. But we're on page 56 now and a player still harping about RVS swashbuckling is scum who is bound by fear of updating his reads.
  
• DGB's reads have been mostly of the blasé unimpeachable variety.
  - Oh really? This is a blatant lie, and if AGar really thought this was a scumtell, he could find players in this very game that are culpable of this sin.
  
• I felt that the read on Hopkirk in 332 was trying to slip one by and put feelers out based on distorting the facts.
  - Let's pull out the post in question. I wrote:
  "I am not liking Hopkirk's non-game related busywork. It feels like game avoidance."
  I don't feel too strongly about AGar's comment here because I later reconsidered my judgment of Hopkirk regarding the balance of non-game busywork/avoidance to actual game engagement.
  
• The denial of noticing ABR in 667 felt cagey and weirdly unnecessary to say "I barely noticed them"
  - I'm pretty sure one thing we can all agree on in this game is that ABR has not been remarkable one way or another. AGar's mischaracterization of this being "cagey" is not honest scumhunting.
  
• absolute scarcity of engagement with anyone that DGB hasn't townblocked is concerning
  - OK, is AGar keeping track of everyone's reads and how much everyone is engaging with their townreads vs. their scumreads? And what's wrong with not engaging with scumreads, anyway? Like I'm doing now.
  I'm casing AGar in the third person
  . Because I believe he's scum and I want to convince the town. I don't need to convince him that he's scum.
  
• a naked readslist seems useless and actively trying to pass off as doing something in a format where you have teammates.
  - That's neither here nor there, we frequently post naked lists on this site, I have done so for over a decade - it's a bit of a personal placeholder that's especially useful when playing large games. As far as teams go, making assumptions about other player's levels of engagement seem disingenuous. Reading this sideways, it may mean that AGar is getting a lot of help from his team mates.
  
• Zero attempts to engage with the current wagon
  -
  UH WUT
  
  
• zero attempts to parse other spots for pressure
  -
  UH WUT
  
  
• zero attempts to parse out the burgeoning null-list that is growing
  -
  UH WUT I don't even know how to respond to this rubbish.

[the worst]

gonna be level with you i don't think scum look scummy this game. i just doubt they look towny.

id love to hear more about this hypothesis. and why is "this game" different from a normal game?

quality of the playerlist and the fact I don't feel particularly good about any scumreads.

obviously scum players always play to be townread, and a lot of the game can be won by checking whether things people are doing are conventionally towny (they think they'll be townread for it) or actually legitimately towny (more sincere / the person may not realise what they're doing is towny sometimes).

nobody is like..failing that objective. I think everyone here feels entitled to be townread to some extent?