TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

[Hopkirk]

people were saying it and i'm not brave

[Titus]

VOTE: Cephrir

I feel better about this than Agar. This or DGB.

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Cephrir choo

[OkaPoka]

@mastina dkkoba has become mathblade for what its worth, he's a little busy in his own games but I'll talk to him when I get the chance

[mastina]

Yes I know Ceph will complain about the "lol Ceph bussing" from me, but I feel obligated to point out how, yes, this does in fact look like scum bussing for one simple reason:
The contrast between Ceph's forced push on IV where he was opportunistic in hopping on with poor reasoning that was more shade than actual presenting of a scumread, compared to Ceph's early hop-on onto AGar with what amounts to a rock-solid case that looks like TMI in the sense of Cephrir knows AGar is scum and thus will be more inclined to think 506 is more scum than it'd normally be, that Ceph would think that it's a case of AGar being transparently scum so he hops on while the getting is good.

Basically, the reason I actually DO think that this is scum bussing is:
Cephrir's push on IV where he hopped onto the existing bandwagon was something forced and was shading IV rather than presenting IV as scum.
Cephrir's push on AGar is completely different to his push on IV--he's hopping onto a brand new wagon with conviction that AGar is absolutely a scumfuck from 506.

If AGar is actually scum, which I think he is, and if Cephrir is scum, which I think he is, Cephrir as scum would know AGar was scum. Cephrir as scum knowing AGar is scum would be more inclined to subconsciously assume that AGar's posting looks much worse. (This is a common thing for scum, I've written articles on it, can quote if necessary if you want me to explain this concept in more detail.)

The contrast between Cephrir's push on IV and Cephrir's push on AGar feels like the simplest explanation is that Cephrir is scum and the difference between the two pushes is a difference in the alignment of the player being pushed. Where Cephrir was subconsciously less inclined to create a strong case on IV due to IV being town, but more inclined to make a strong case on AGar due to AGar being scum.

To explain this more eloquently.

Compare and contrast.
This is Cephrir's push on IV in full up to that point:

Spoiler: Cephrir's push on IV

ok Datisi scumreads me like every game at this point lmaoooo

lame excuse

town: hercule, Dannflor, AGar
conflicted: the worst/Daddisi hydra
scum: VOTE: unwnd

Why is unwnd scum?

nvm i don't really scumread unwnd yet
but i will be watching u closely sir

i guess i want to understand what happened here, IV? this is just a very weird sequence of events to me

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

choosing this moment right after being prodded by dunn to go after him didn't really resonate w me; also feels a bit like a chainsaw

I do think the worst has been awkward and is deserving of votes, would vote for him and IV at this point. Not necessarily both together

VOTE: Dunnstral

Explain

hmm maybe part of it was me thinking the "not necessarily both together" was a bit awkward LOL

i get having to go back and figure out what you were thinking at a given moment but it was like 2 posts ago? why are we "hmm maybe if we interpret the entrails this way" ing about an opinion that you literally just posted

It feels like you're making this up as you go along and tacking on whatever reason to scumread me

i am, is that scummy?

y... yes?

Dunnstral mega town off of this interaction.

UNVOTE: Dunnstral
im willing to do this but can you explain how you got "megatown"?

after that whole exchange, someone else's opinion is the thing that gets you to unvote? what

ythan town

From what I understand, IV likes being town. His best option if he's not town is to lead with nonsense and then assume someone town reads him by his gestures; this can include fluffy nonsense. The way he convinced himself that you were scummy did not sit right for me.

this might actually be a real thought because this is exactly what I tried to do to (while pocketing the worst) in Mini 2160! but i can't do that anymore, it only works once. im curious as to how you know me so well... my towngames you've seen me in were pretty different
pedit: what are you confused/thinking about?

what on earth does the likelihood of this thought being real have to do with you happening to have done that in some other game
are you some sort of space alien i don't get these processes

IV
You still have nervous energy
The best way I would further describe what seems to be wrong with you is that you believe solving to be a catch-all towntell, but it's like
Page 10? What necessity is there to solve on page 10. Changing your mind or seeming like 'oh man, I'm just so worried about everything!' does not make you town
If you are town, stop forcing yourself to do things thanks

bro what are you even talking about lol

This feels like a very awkward response to what I read as a very genuine towny reach out. Personally, that's not how I would react to something like unwnd's post and innocent villager's response here seems devoid of actually trying to understand unwnd or really dig deeper into the reasons people are sorting IV as scummy
I suppose there is something to be said for not taking the easy olive branch, but on the whole it feels more dismissive than anything else, which doesn't really feel like a town approach to the game in general but certainly not this sort of attempted engagement

why are you analyzing this reaction in isolation without at all commenting on the followup conversation we had? what did you think of that?
i genuinely think what unwnd said in that particular post was confusing and i was saying, albeit in a bit of a snippy way, that his accusation was not making sense

that isn't what you said at all? you specifically were questioned about this and said you genuinely didn't understand him, and that's different from the accusation not making sense
(i'm also very lost as to how that completely plain english post apparently was hard to understand)

VOTE: IV

There is a bunch of questioning. A bunch of weak stuff, a push that I personally feel is shade and which I personally feel is forced, but even if you wanna go into more objective metrics: the lack of strength is self-evident in here. Nowhere in this push is Cephrir showing an ounce of confidence in IV being scum. That much is objectively true. His push on IV lacks conviction and lacks solid reasoning and is self-evidently weak. Over multiple IV posts, Cephrir's push against IV amounts to not much.

Contrast:

VOTE: AGar
i don't know if i'd have been bothered by this if unwnd didn't point it out but new york's hottest scumpost is 506. this post has everything:
-complaining about post count
-pointless filler that also randomly drops the only thing he's cared about thus far
-overreaction to titus
-useless nonanalysis on unwnd that turns into a suspicion for some reason
-a MYSTERY VOTE
ceph, i hate to ask, but what's a mystery vote
well seth, that's when you vote ABR without having ever mentioned him before anywhere in your iso for no apparent reason.

This post has hard reasonings, absolute conviction behind it, is solid, grounded in reality, gives concrete reasons, and has a solid basis. He shows absolute confidence. There's no questioning, there's no hesitance, there's an immediate all-in. Off of one AGar post, Cephrir immediately has a strong push where he gives no leniency to AGar, when he did to IV.

Why such a strong contrast between the IV push and the AGar push? They're less than five pages apart, in the same early section of the game.

The simplest solution is a contrast in Cephrir's perspective on the two slots, where he had reason to be hesitant in pushing IV as scum but he had no reason to hesitate in believing AGar to be condemned as scum.

Ergo, Cephrir is scum who bussed AGar immediately when AGar had a single bad post, and IV is town.

[Cephrir]

there's no rule that says i have to play exactly the same way all the time lmao that's the most ridiculous thing ive heard all week

[mastina]

@mastina dkkoba has become mathblade for what its worth, he's a little busy in his own games but I'll talk to him when I get the chance

Right, in that case, MathBlade may or may not be the most trustworthy, it'll become obvious when he gives his stances. MathBlade is very much a feast or famine player; he's either really right or really wrong, usually. If he's really right, I'd trust him over Pooky; if he's really wrong, I'd trust Pooky over him.

When MathBlade gives reads here, will be able to better gauge which he is. (Here's to hoping it's the 'really right' tho.)

Hot take DGB might be scum.

Quite possible.

VOTE: Cephrir choo

Much as I'm tempted to join: my entire case on Ceph here falls apart if AGar doesn't flip scum. It'd be smarter to check AGar first, no? If AGar flips scum, my theory may have merit, but an AGar townflip invalidates my case on Ceph. (Well, unless IV is scum in which case I got it backwards, but balance of probability, AGar town = my case on Ceph is wrong.)

[OkaPoka]

alright I'll talk to mathblade, if we want to follow through on the greatest coinflip in the history of coinflips this is the game to do it

[DrippingGoofball]

ythan - he had one post that pinged me 728

"You are not authorized to read this topic"

This was probably approved by the rest of his team before-hand.

WOW

I did not notice!

[mastina]

I liked something AGar posted

(Yes I know, bad mastina, paranoia is bad, don't do this on D1, but just for bragging rights. If the interaction on page 22 between tw Ceph and AGar is 100% scum I feel like I get big fucking huge bragging rights. But, I do wanna reiterate: the worst is still probably town. The only way I see tw as possible scum is pretty much if all of my other scumreads are right. Any of AGar/Cephrir/hercule flipping town would make me think tw was town.)

[DrippingGoofball]

ythan - he had one post that pinged me 728

"You are not authorized to read this topic"

This was probably approved by the rest of his team before-hand.

wait a second what the fuck

so this was written in a PT then previewed then copy-pasted over here right

I interpret this as lazy scum.

[DrippingGoofball]

what are the chances that the thread we aren't allowed to read is the scum pt vs a team pt

is this angleshooting, it feels like angleshooting

It doesn't matter.

He presented his team mate's work (or scum team mate's) as
his own in an effort to appear townie.

When I report a team mate's read, I paraphrase, and specify the read isn't my own.

VOTE: xtoxm

[mastina]

oh hey AGar townposted again

548 legit looks like scum theater--it doesn't look like AGar genuinely believes Cephrir is scum or is actually trying to push him. It doesn't even look like AGar is scum making an attempt to OMGUS his attacker and to get a fight started where he cases them to try and reverse the wagon.

His post was defensive without explaining why Cephrir was scum, so it looks like he's trying to distance with a scumbuddy, rather than actually fight with a town player or being town who thinks they caught scum.

[mastina]

(561 is fine from Ceph btw. It's nai, in that it could be town or scum making it, but that's an improvement over Ceph's posts looking like scum; it's posts like that which make me favor voting AGar over Cephrir.)

[innocentvillager]

VOTE: Xtoxm actually this vote is way better for the angleshooty reason

[DrippingGoofball]

Xtoxm is LAWKSCUM and my vote isn't moving.

[DrippingGoofball]

Hot take DGB might be scum.

If you really believe that, you HAVE to help me bus my buddy Xtoxm.

[DrippingGoofball]

VOTE: Xtoxm actually this vote is way better for the angleshooty reason

It's a Cyrano de Bergerac situation.

[mastina]

ABR, do you get the feeling scum Agar just wants us to turn on each other?

(Guess what we ended up doing? Yyyyup.)

[Winter Flakes]

watching the PPV today and got other stuff lined up so my presence is gonna be limited ):

my goal by end of today is to have read up on Titus agar and xtoxm

[mastina]

I don't agree that ceph is scum-claiming for thinking agar is scum

I do, but in the sense of "dude I wouldn't be run up if you hadn't made this confident push on me, stop bussing me".

[Dannflor]

let’s kill xtoxm please

[mastina]

let’s kill xtoxm please

Dann this line is very old from you.

On principle I fundamentally refuse to argue against it because Xtoxm is not worth saving, but eliminating him on D1 is explicitly policy; he will never flip scum here. Flipping him is explicitly laziness.

If you wanna flip him for being useless, sure, go ahead. I agree with you; he's not worth defending at this point and not worth saving.
If you wanna flip him for being scum: he ain't, so go look elsewhere.

[mastina]

OkaPoka
Titus
Dannflor
Hopkirk
Dunnstral
the worst

Albert B. Rampage
Xtoxm
innocentvillager
unwnd
Uncrowned

Almost50
DrippingGoofball
Ythan



AGar
Cephrir
hercule

The more and more I read, the more and more this feels right.
Of townblock, locktown, poe-contains-1/2-scum, and just scum.

[innocentvillager]

nah i don't believe xtoxm asked team to proofread reads in the team PT when they supposedly don't care about this game, i think this can flip scum pretty often

i don't hate the idea that there could be 1-2 scum in {AGar, Cephrir} though