Open 805 Panic Room Day 1

[PenguinPower]

Mine?

[Dumb and Dumber]

ya i'm gonna stick with my MURDERCAT vote for now

~ skitter

[Green Crayons]

if i'm not pushing you that's a pretty good indication that i don't want to push you

[PenguinPower]

Gotcha. I’m supposed to read minds. Thx.

[Green Crayons]

I'll update the wiki entry on reading minds to include taking note of observable behavior.

[Dumb and Dumber]

lol. you have a great sense of humor

also that was probably a townie reaction

~ skitter

[Daenerys and Dragons]

Ok this is kind of ass

infinity, soon: ah yes why hasn't gc engaged with this insightful commentary?

who cares if it's insightful
saying "lol SRs on me are just wrong" is scummy af

@cakez

why do you scumread me again? i don't think you explained

I dislike certain posts and pushes you made early on

VOTE: MURDERKITTY

~ skitter

I am >rand willing to sheep this I don't really like any of his posting on page 29 it feels way more forced then I expect from town MC
But not sure lilith is interested

Gamma seems to just be chilling and doesn't seem to be trying to push anything in particular.

Also this is a scumtell for Gamma I think

PenguinPower is town af also
that's all i got for now

-Dragons

[Gamma Emerald]

I’m sorry but I can’t have fun in mafia games as town, Cakez? Is that what you’re saying?
I actually feel like I vibed pretty hard in a game murder and infinity were both in

[Dumb and Dumber]

That he didn't have a good reason to vote infinity in the first place is NBD. Like, no shit. It was very early game. The problem for the unvote is that nothing changed about infinity's play between the vote and unvote. Also that his later justification for being afraid about a quick elim are BS, per the above.

The other two points (throwing suspicion elsewhere, but no vote) are suspicious because shadow had already displayed, per his infinity vote, that he is a player who is fine putting a vote down for less-than-stellar reasons. Note: that isn't a problem, especially early game! It's good! I support it!

But by unvoting infinity while simultaneously shading skitter without a skitter vote is inconsistent with how shadow plays the game with his votes. That is--if he's a town player who throws down votes early to get a reaction, then presumably he would have unvoted infinity and voted skitter. Because he didn't act in conformity to his initial play suggests that he is being calculating with his votes.

Thanks for the explanation! my bad, I should've read closer. But I feel this line of reasoning is problematic because I can't imagine what

scum

motivation he'd have to unvote in that manner.

Do you agree that town can be inconsistent sometimes?

If so, how would one distinguish between

town

inconsistency and

scum

inconsistency? And this also means that inconsistency does not imply calculated play, no?

To me, scum inconsistency is backed by playing to an agenda / to force unnatural positions. I see neither of that here. And it's a very plausible town thought process.

Scum on that position on a mislim wagon would probably

love

for the wagon to go through, as it only benefits scum (little info to the town and a lot of suspicion on the hammerer), and unvoting breaks momentum. The thought that scum would unvote to "stay off a miselim wagon" that early rings hollow: if you have empirical evidence of scum players doing this early in games, I'd love to see it.

I'll respond to the other parts in a bit, but in the meantime: did you recognize that you've played with me a few months earlier in a Vi-moderated game?

-Dumbass

[YyottaCat]

I'm being constantly exhausted IRL so I don't really have the energy or the motivation to do anything except lurking. My head hurts.

Can you talk about your reads a little bit? Is there anyone you think is town?

See, that's the problem. I can't really figure out people's alignments. I'm thinking that Infinity and Da&Dr could be town.

[Green Crayons]

I’m sorry but I can’t have fun in mafia games as town, Cakez? Is that what you’re saying?

...Is that what you think he's saying?

[YyottaCat]

I do agree with PP on GC's vote being sort of forced though. I don't see why continuously voting for me would be a good reason to join the wagon on MURDERKITTY.

[YyottaCat]

Why are you three voting MURDERKITTY though?

[Green Crayons]

That he didn't have a good reason to vote infinity in the first place is NBD. Like, no shit. It was very early game. The problem for the unvote is that nothing changed about infinity's play between the vote and unvote. Also that his later justification for being afraid about a quick elim are BS, per the above.

The other two points (throwing suspicion elsewhere, but no vote) are suspicious because shadow had already displayed, per his infinity vote, that he is a player who is fine putting a vote down for less-than-stellar reasons. Note: that isn't a problem, especially early game! It's good! I support it!

But by unvoting infinity while simultaneously shading skitter without a skitter vote is inconsistent with how shadow plays the game with his votes. That is--if he's a town player who throws down votes early to get a reaction, then presumably he would have unvoted infinity and voted skitter. Because he didn't act in conformity to his initial play suggests that he is being calculating with his votes.

Thanks for the explanation! my bad, I should've read closer. But I feel this line of reasoning is problematic because I can't imagine what

scum

motivation he'd have to unvote in that manner.

Do you agree that town can be inconsistent sometimes?

If so, how would one distinguish between

town

inconsistency and

scum

inconsistency? And this also means that inconsistency does not imply calculated play, no?

To me, scum inconsistency is backed by playing to an agenda / to force unnatural positions. I see neither of that here. And it's a very plausible town thought process.

Scum on that position on a mislim wagon would probably

love

for the wagon to go through, as it only benefits scum (little info to the town and a lot of suspicion on the hammerer), and unvoting breaks momentum. The thought that scum would unvote to "stay off a miselim wagon" that early rings hollow: if you have empirical evidence of scum players doing this early in games, I'd love to see it.

I'll respond to the other parts in a bit, but in the meantime: did you recognize that you've played with me a few months earlier in a Vi-moderated game?

-Dumbass

Is dumbass Auro? I recognize the name and know we've played together but don't remember the game or much other than that.

Yes town are inconsistent. In how they view suspicious behavior--for example, they see Player A do X and find it suspicious, but Player B does X and it's not suspicious.

I don't recall seeing town inconsistent in how they actually play--for example, how they feel about the sanctity of voting. Some players are very careful with their votes. Others are not. I'm unfamiliar with town being inconsistent in that type of play within a single segment of the game. I don't see a town-based reason for this inconsistency (contrast with differing views on whether "X" action is suspicious, which can be influenced by subjective feelings toward the players who are both doing X). I do see a scum-based reason for this inconsistency as I noted.

Empirical evidence... no? Other than some very special starlets who Have Some Time On Their Hands, does anyone? Do you have empirical evidence showing that scum love to be on early game mis-elim flash wagons?

Finally, we just have different views of what scum would like to do with regard to any early mis-elim wagon, probably because we personally play scum differently. I think a newer scum player, like shadow, would be more cautious about being on an early game D1 quick elim wagon.

[Green Crayons]

I don't see why continuously voting for me would be a good reason to join the wagon on MURDERKITTY.

I think you're possibly mis-elim material*, meaning you're low-hanging fruit for scum to vote/suspect.


*I'm probably not using the right term, but whatever the phrase is for a player who habitually looks/acts suspicious and often gets eliminated for it but that's just how they play as town.

[Dumb and Dumber]

Is dumbass Auro? I recognize the name and know we've played together but don't remember the game or much other than that.

Yes town are inconsistent. In how they view suspicious behavior--for example, they see Player A do X and find it suspicious, but Player B does X and it's not suspicious.

I don't recall seeing town inconsistent in how they actually play--for example, how they feel about the sanctity of voting. Some players are very careful with their votes. Others are not. I'm unfamiliar with town being inconsistent in that type of play within a single segment of the game. I don't see a town-based reason for this inconsistency (contrast with differing views on whether "X" action is suspicious, which can be influenced by subjective feelings toward the players who are both doing X). I do see a scum-based reason for this inconsistency as I noted.

Empirical evidence... no? Other than some very special starlets who Have Some Time On Their Hands, does anyone? Do you have empirical evidence showing that scum love to be on early game mis-elim flash wagons?

Finally, we just have different views of what scum would like to do with regard to any early mis-elim wagon, probably because we personally play scum differently. I think a newer scum player, like shadow, would be more cautious about being on an early game D1 quick elim wagon.

Yes, I was scum in that game and limmed D1 - so I was mildly curious at the way you approached (or didn't ) me.

The town-based reason for an inconsistency is simply lack of full thought put into it. I don't see any evidence that Shadowslug is usually someone very careful with their votes.

I think I'd be able to search and bring up empirical evidence for scum being fine with being on early mislim wagons, just because it sounds like a great position to be in. I had asked for empirical evidence to see if the opposite scenario (where scum don't like it) is less unlikely than I feel it is.

Shadow's play has been direct and unabashed - don't you think that is inconsistent with being self-consciousness on wagon placement?


-Dumbass

[Not_Mafia]

VOTE: shadowslug

[Dumb and Dumber]

Happy cake day N_M!

Is voting without nicknames a scumtell for Not_Mafia :megathonk:

-Dumbass

[Not_Mafia]

It’s an I’m on my break at work tell, crafting nicknames takes time and effort

[Dumb and Dumber]

Might I interest you in a Murderkitten wagon

-Dumbass

[Not_Mafia]

Sure

VOTE: Murder cat

[Green Crayons]

Shadow's play has been direct and unabashed

I felt that he's been very towny since then, displaying nuance that I almost never see from newbscum

y'all are doing a great rendition of Rashomon


Regardless, I don't think scum being careful about not wanting to be on an early mis-elim wagon dictates how a player presents themselves in terms of attitude.

[YyottaCat]

Happy candleday NM!

[shadowslug]

although that vote is pretty questionable ...

penguin you're beating me to everything cuz i have to keep switching accounts >.>

i think your'e a town penguin now btw!

~ skitter

what changed your mind about PP? looks like he's playing the same to me

[Not_Mafia]

Happy candleday NM!

Thanks!