Newbie 2054 - GAME OVER

[Alisae]

you're townier in illicit substances than here so far

but yeah I'm going to work anyway, try not to make any newbies give up on life because they're afraid of hyperposting

really?
I mean
yeah I can see how you would reach that conclusion ig my catchup here and there are really different

[Kazyan]

Newbie question: if you're being scumread, how do you use that pressure to analyze for the real scum? e.g. I know at least three people doubt that I'm town right now, but I'm not sure what to do with that. Demonstrating my townosity doesn't seem like it would help, since that's exactly what scum do too--is it a matter of analyzing what people's agendas might be?

[Alisae]

You look for the people who want to be right and the people who want to have reads that look very ironclad and you try to determine which one is which. You have the knowledge that you are town so you use that to try to sort who is trying to sort you and if you can determine that in this gamestate, scum are going to probably keep u in the PoE, then you can use that to your advantage and try to figure out who is trying to keep u in the PoE.

The people who want to be right are town because scum cannot fake this. It's impossible for them to because they have all of the answers.
The people who want to have reads that are very ironclad are more likely to be scum. Scum value their appearance a lot, and having reads that they can justify is important to them.

[Meuh]

As for actual reads
{Krazy}
{Italiano, Marci}
{Cantrip}
{Meuh}
{Harumi, 2ndchosen, kazyan}

Currently reading up, could you uh, explain that read format? Is it higher = more town?

[Meuh]

I need reads on Harumi and 2ndchosen1 from you Alisae-chan <3 <3 <3

{Harumi Meuh} 1 scum max 61
I don't think this is scum attacking scum and I think either side could be scum here.
Meuh posting a readlist here is strange and I don't see a reason why Meuh needs to post a readlist right now?
Harumi attacking that readlist could be a scum motivated action.
Both of them being villagers is possible.

{Italiano, 2ndchosen} 1 scum max 226
the justification on the vote pings me from Italiano so if Italiano is scum, 2ndchosen could be town,
but also Italiano being town is quite possible from what I read earlier so it could also be possible that it's Italiano town and 2ndchosen scum.

{kazyan, meuh} 1 scum max 236
the whole thing pings me and reads like scum voting town, I don't like how kazyan is basically describing meuh's actions like everything about it is scummy and it pings me.


As for actual reads
{Krazy}
{Italiano, Marci}
{Cantrip}
{Meuh}
{Harumi, 2ndchosen, kazyan}

If I'm in "1 scum max" scenarios with both Kazyan and Harumi, 2 of your 3 strongest scumreads, then why am I in this position on your readslist? I'd assume it's behavior in other scenarios, which I'd love to hear about since I only care about myself

[Alisae]

If I'm in "1 scum max" scenarios with both Kazyan and Harumi, 2 of your 3 strongest scumreads, then why am I in this position on your readslist? I'd assume it's behavior in other scenarios, which I'd love to hear about since I only care about myself

ur more townie than the player's below you.

[Alisae]

Is it higher = more town?

yep

[Krazy]

Trip - Meuh - Kazy
Italiano
Harumi - Chosen - Marci - Ali

That's really not the readslist I want right now

I feel like most of the time when I reevaluate people down they're still town but man have I not liked some recent posts from my hard town

[Alisae]

why is marci that low?

[Krazy]

Yeah maybe she shouldn't be, maybe we need to go into read therapy

i dont know if chosens town tbh, but i feel like they arent the best elim for today.
if chosens actually scum i dont mind being eliminated next if itll help clear the towns confusion.

if chosens town I would probably do something like krazy because then it would mean town is horribly off track and needs to look into different options.
if they're scum i think either alisae/you cantrip. I feel this way because (unless if im missing it) they didn't really interact with eth0s when he was here, and also they barely mention you outside of 135.

just looking at these points back to back, marci still basically has chosen as null. Like she's committed to kinda putting the breaks on the wagon and saying he isn't the best elim, but it's not really clear how or why she's trying to get a better read at him. It's like she's just kinda decided it's better to oppose his wagon without knowing whether he's town or scum and that kinda bothers me for her alignment wise

Also the idea that chosen flipping town means "town is horribly off track" bothers me as well; a day 1 town flip is like, fine? I mean obviously red is theoretically better but even then not *always* depending on the setup. I mostly have felt like a slightly faster day 1 would be better before paranoia set in and reads stagnated, as they're happening to me right now. Chosen town-->Krazy scum bothers me a bit as well

Marci like, what are you doing to make your read of chosen better rn?

[Krazy]

I need reads on Harumi and 2ndchosen1 from you Alisae-chan <3 <3 <3

{Harumi Meuh} 1 scum max 61
I don't think this is scum attacking scum and I think either side could be scum here.
Meuh posting a readlist here is strange and I don't see a reason why Meuh needs to post a readlist right now?
Harumi attacking that readlist could be a scum motivated action.
Both of them being villagers is possible.

{Italiano, 2ndchosen} 1 scum max 226
the justification on the vote pings me from Italiano so if Italiano is scum, 2ndchosen could be town,
but also Italiano being town is quite possible from what I read earlier so it could also be possible that it's Italiano town and 2ndchosen scum.

{kazyan, meuh} 1 scum max 236
the whole thing pings me and reads like scum voting town, I don't like how kazyan is basically describing meuh's actions like everything about it is scummy and it pings me.


As for actual reads
{Krazy}
{Italiano, Marci}
{Cantrip}
{Meuh}
{Harumi, 2ndchosen, kazyan}

alisae I kinda don't like your reads list

partly because if your reads are as quasi-oog-political as they seem I don't get why marci isn't top tier town for you, like I guess I get why you'd be like "oh yeah krazy can be top town so he can die tonight or whatever" that's fine but if you're just like "lol I'm not flipping marci d1 she's too cool" I don't get why she isn't also tier 1

I'm not sure I get why cantrip is below italiano

I feel like you should have kazyan as townier at least? idk I think kazy feels very townie, I get that you identified the one post pushing meuh since it very much was clear that they were like 'ima push meuh now' so the push feels kinda forced.

I don't like how the italiano read in the (italiano/chosen) pairing differs so much in thought process from the readslistt

idk

this readslist fucks up my read of your slot a little even though I still really did like that one post from eth0s and should probably have you up a tier, this is just my like kneejerk reaction to what I'm seeing

that + chosen keeps not doing anything and people keep giving him a pass which makes it hard to tell if he's scum with a buddy that won't bus or two scum that just know he flips town and want the wagon to go through anyway, I definitely feel like the wagon is just all town but idk what that actually means for gamestate

ehhhhhhhh

[Alisae]

289 reads really honest.
You think marci posts that as scum? I don't normally see scum post that stuff.

I agree with you I don't really think that this is scum talking about scum

[Alisae]

partly because if your reads are as quasi-oog-political as they seem I don't get why marci isn't top tier town for you, like I guess I get why you'd be like "oh yeah krazy can be top town so he can die tonight or whatever" that's fine but if you're just like "lol I'm not flipping marci d1 she's too cool" I don't get why she isn't also tier 1

marci on catch up seemed natural and I don't see myself voting them today anyways. Flipping them for them to end up flipping town would feel really shitty.

I'm not sure I get why cantrip is below italiano

29 felt townie and I feel like they've been hunting.
cantrip seemed town but its not as strong as I feel about Italiano

I feel like you should have kazyan as townier at least? idk I think kazy feels very townie, I get that you identified the one post pushing meuh since it very much was clear that they were like 'ima push meuh now' so the push feels kinda forced.

I was townreading him up till he posted 236 236 reaaaaaaally bothers me. Like, I can see 109 being posted by town, but 236 just irks me.

[Alisae]

Do you think I'm giving Italiano too much credit?

[Krazy]

236 comes from the perspective of someone who:
-has lost their only town game
-read the game where Prism snowed the entire game with like uber sweaty tryhardness

like kazy is actually just naked town and the way they want to play is that they want to be the one leading the wagon because at least that way they know at least the town is the one doing the things

I know, I *know* it reads identical to an open wolf trying to just do like their own wagon

but they're town

trust

*and no, I don't really dislike anything from Marci including 289 individually, it just bothers me a lot that it feels like she is like, doing things that feel like it's making it harder to solve chosen and it's hard for me to continue townreading her even if I still want and think she flips town if that makes sense

Like I actively townread Meuh, so I feel like I have a reason to oppose that wagon. She has chosen as like null but she's just decided he's a bad flip and that POV is just very ??? when the meuh case to me doesn't feel good at all

[Krazy]

Do you think I'm giving Italiano too much credit?

not really I just think trip has been pretty town lately

I'm not sure italiano is outside either range but I don't really dislike what he's saying

[Alisae]

236 comes from the perspective of someone who:
-has lost their only town game
-read the game where Prism snowed the entire game with like uber sweaty tryhardness

like kazy is actually just naked town and the way they want to play is that they want to be the one leading the wagon because at least that way they know at least the town is the one doing the things

I know, I *know* it reads identical to an open wolf trying to just do like their own wagon

but they're town

trust

*and no, I don't really dislike anything from Marci including 289 individually, it just bothers me a lot that it feels like she is like, doing things that feel like it's making it harder to solve chosen and it's hard for me to continue townreading her even if I still want and think she flips town if that makes sense

Like I actively townread Meuh, so I feel like I have a reason to oppose that wagon. She has chosen as like null but she's just decided he's a bad flip and that POV is just very ??? when the meuh case to me doesn't feel good at all

Okay, I can go chosen or Harumi. Up to you.

[Kazyan]

I feel like you should have kazyan as townier at least? idk I think kazy feels very townie, I get that you identified the one post pushing meuh since it very much was clear that they were like 'ima push meuh now' so the push feels kinda forced.

I was townreading him up till he posted 236 236 reaaaaaaally bothers me. Like, I can see 109 being posted by town, but 236 just irks me.

If strong opinions backed by multi-post pattern recognition is scummy, then you're just coaching the town to never scumhunt. Do you think that's pro-town?

[Krazy]

if it's harumi I will be annoyed but only a little bit

I wonder if I should actually go there at least until I get a reads list

but I just refuse to move off chosen when he continues to not do anything, I feel like I can't allow a gamestate where quasi-active lurking is allowed to live

[Krazy]

I want to see what chosen does at f-1 tbh

I don't know that he does anything that changes my read at all but I need to know if there is any amount of pressure that will make him start like, doing more readable stuff

I don't even scumread almost any of his recent posts but I remember my *feeling* on the page 6 stuff and I don't want to forget it when he's doing ~null, ok stuff.

[Alisae]

I feel like you should have kazyan as townier at least? idk I think kazy feels very townie, I get that you identified the one post pushing meuh since it very much was clear that they were like 'ima push meuh now' so the push feels kinda forced.

I was townreading him up till he posted 236 236 reaaaaaaally bothers me. Like, I can see 109 being posted by town, but 236 just irks me.

If strong opinions backed by multi-post pattern recognition is scummy, then you're just coaching the town to never scumhunt. Do you think that's pro-town?

I mean what I don't like about 236 is I don't really like how you're spinning meuh's every single action as scummy. That's kind of the stuff I think scum would try to do.

[Alisae]

I want to see what chosen does at f-1 tbh

I don't know that he does anything that changes my read at all but I need to know if there is any amount of pressure that will make him start like, doing more readable stuff

I don't even scumread almost any of his recent posts but I remember my *feeling* on the page 6 stuff and I don't want to forget it when he's doing ~null, ok stuff.

yessir
VOTE: chosen

[Kazyan]

236 comes from the perspective of someone who:
-has lost their only town game
-read the game where Prism snowed the entire game with like uber sweaty tryhardness

like kazy is actually just naked town and the way they want to play is that they want to be the one leading the wagon because at least that way they know at least the town is the one doing the things

I know, I *know* it reads identical to an open wolf trying to just do like their own wagon

but they're town

trust

*and no, I don't really dislike anything from Marci including 289 individually, it just bothers me a lot that it feels like she is like, doing things that feel like it's making it harder to solve chosen and it's hard for me to continue townreading her even if I still want and think she flips town if that makes sense

Like I actively townread Meuh, so I feel like I have a reason to oppose that wagon. She has chosen as like null but she's just decided he's a bad flip and that POV is just very ??? when the meuh case to me doesn't feel good at all

While my one towngame and one major spectation definitely inform how I want to play, my actual reason for pushing Meuh so hard is the falsification method that I described gave me a very loud, immediate "yes" on Meuh and a "no" on everyone else in the game.

[Krazy]

While my one towngame and one major spectation definitely inform how I want to play, my actual reason for pushing Meuh so hard is the falsification method that I described gave me a very loud, immediate "yes" on Meuh and a "no" on everyone else in the game.

can you walk me through this and how it would differentiate shitposty town from scum

[Kazyan]

can you walk me through this and how it would differentiate shitposty town from scum

I just try to reverse-engineer what the person's motivations would be in the broad strokes of their play--mostly their reads and votes--under the assumption that they are scum. The more tinfoil I have to put on my hat, the less likely it is that the starting assumption of scumminess is. It definitely overlooks strong town signals, but shitposting wouldn't be about reads and votes, so that doesn't matter. This is otherwise not a

good

method, but I don't actually know how to implement anything with a higher success rate because the mafia's two heads are smarter than my one, even if we didn't have WIFOM all over everything.