Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER

[Green Crayons]

Nah Italiano bites back when he gets scumread as town, the defeatism is the nail in the coffin imo

would like to hear from VD some delicious ~self-meta~ about whether he agrees this is how he plays when scumread as town

[Green Crayons]

im still wary of being pocketed

just from people calling you town or something else?

[Green Crayons]

Limpool {RLotus, Lunar, Green Crayons, Baltar}

I only see you explain why I'm in here. Want to explain the other three?

In 415 I mentioned everyone else is null... here’s my feelings on those slots.

Datisi

- Unreadable, but something feels odd. The tone of your posts feel almost like you’re thumbing your nose at us. Like you know something and are toying with us. But maybe that’s just your play style. Now a few of the players have played with you and the atmosphere around you is pretty split. I’ve never played with you so I placed you here based on what those people have said.

Dunnstral

- Is an unreadable players since you play the same as both alignments, which is why I have you as null. All I know is your town games.

Harumi

- As you know I’m currently playing two games with you. This one and the another one and I can’t read you, which is why I have you at null. Your play could come from both town and scum.

Tessa

- You’ve only posted several times and I’d say your posts weren’t bad, but not enough to get a real read on you. It’s why I placed you here.

Elements

- I literally don’t have a read for you. You may be like Dunn and play similar regardless of alignment, but I only have a town game for you and this could be that, but not having a scum game to compare, I can only place you here.

So am i correct that you haven't explained why the other three are in your elimination pool, or did I miss that?

[ItalianoVD]

Nah Italiano bites back when he gets scumread as town, the defeatism is the nail in the coffin imo

would like to hear from VD some delicious ~self-meta~ about whether he agrees this is how he plays when scumread as town

When I'm scumread for something that is legitimate or something that I myself would scumread I just play on and eventually that person or people should see my towniness come through but when I get scumread for something stupid or faulty I admit it throws me off and my goal is to disprove that nonsense, which in effect makes me look scummier ~ala Mini Number 2195.

[Green Crayons]

So what I'm reading is that defeatism isn't a VD-town play to being suspected, or is that part of "just play(ing) on"?

[ItalianoVD]

So am i correct that you haven't explained why the other three are in your elimination pool, or did I miss that?

I explained why it's Lunar/midway in 577. The other two I haven't played with but Lotus has a feel like Datisi. Baltar interaction with everyone hasn't necessarily been scummy, even his interaction with me, so as I'm writing this perhaps I could move him down him in the nullrange. But I'm wondering why it feels like their mind is made up with me. Like no matter what happens I'll be where they vote today, I don't know maybe it's just me.

[ItalianoVD]

So what I'm reading is that defeatism isn't a VD-town play to being suspected, or is that part of "just play(ing) on"?

Well not necessarily. I mean I've given up before. It usually happens when every attempt to give my thoughts and explain the reasons I've done X or Y have fallen on deaf ears. At that point I'm frustrated and it's futile. That's what I've felt like in this game. But sure read what you want from that, I don't care really.

[ItalianoVD]

To be clear being suspected or even pressured is nothing to me, I take it in stride, but these are different circumstances and in different situations I will obviously react differently.

[Datisi]

i was writing out my thought/solving process. that's how i play this game, i try to get as much of my thought process out as possible. doesn't matter if it's contradictory or i can't quite explain it or makes me look bad or whatever. i trust that at some point people are going to townread me for the transparency.

You don’t seem to be giving me this same benefit of the doubt, but you want people to just do this for you. Hmm

lol excuse me what? what kinda benefit of the doubt am i supposed to be giving you here?

@italiano, i'd like this answered.

[Green Crayons]

Hm. Hm. Hm.

I don't care about the self-meta for it's own substance. Like maybe VD's defeatist when town or maybe not. I don't care rn.

I was curious if VD was going to try to use his self-meta to justify his play this game. Sort of a (strong attempt to fight meta = null or suspicious) vs. (accept meta doesn't clear him/might implicate him = townish) --> from theory that scum are less inclined to say "yeah my meta would suggest I'm scum this game BUT..." as that's a difficult starting position to make a defense.


What VD gave was... a bit of a muddled inbetween? Like, he started out explaining his meta might suggest he's not acting town here (an anti-scum thing to do), but then sort-of reversed course when I asked him to clarify on that point ("well not necessarily"; which is probably a null bc I explicitly called out an understanding of his prior explanation that would say he's suspicious via meta reasons). So that's a wash.


That said, 605/606 don't strike me as inauthentic frustration(?), for lack of a better term. Maybe acceptance? Doesn't seem like an ATE because it's pretty lo-fi. And I don't see the scum benefit of just giving up when he's sitting at E-4 on D-1. I hadn't really had settled thoughts on VD, and sort of ignored him after I stepped away from Duchess and until I saw he threw a vote my way, but I'm leaning against an elimination.

[VP Baltar]

But I'm wondering why it feels like their mind is made up with me. Like no matter what happens I'll be where they vote today, I don't know maybe it's just me.

I responded to this and pointed out I had, indeed, not made my mind up about you.

Here's a post where I am very clearly torn about you:

I hate that my gut says Italiano is town and every word out of his mouth is scummy.

I still want to yeet Dunn.

I really hate that you keep saying "VP has already made his mind up" because it reaches a point where if I ever *do* decide to vote you, you can easily be like: "SEE TOLD YOU VP BIASED AF"

[Reformed Toxic Player]

hi i am feeling a bit better and can do stuff after work

[VP Baltar]

Since we are slowly grinding to a standstill here without much original line of thought, I propose we just run Dunn to L-1 and force a claim.

[ItalianoVD]

Here's a post where I am very clearly torn about you:

I hate that my gut says Italiano is town and every word out of his mouth is scummy.

I still want to yeet Dunn.

I really hate that you keep saying "VP has already made his mind up" because it reaches a point where if I ever *do* decide to vote you, you can easily be like: "SEE TOLD YOU VP BIASED AF"

My bad, I did miss that.

[Datisi]

yeet

VOTE: dunn

[ItalianoVD]

i was writing out my thought/solving process. that's how i play this game, i try to get as much of my thought process out as possible. doesn't matter if it's contradictory or i can't quite explain it or makes me look bad or whatever. i trust that at some point people are going to townread me for the transparency.

You don’t seem to be giving me this same benefit of the doubt, but you want people to just do this for you. Hmm

lol excuse me what? what kinda benefit of the doubt am i supposed to be giving you here?

@italiano, i'd like this answered.

I've pretty much said and done the same thing you said you do in 565. It's almost word for word my sentiments, thoughts, and reactions to the whole Duchess/Green thing. And multiple people scumread it. You voted me for it. I was writing out my thoughts and the reasons I said what I said and why I was reacting to certain things the way I did, etc. and people were like "Nah bruh, that's scummy and I'm voting for you, so when I saw your comment, it made me do a double take, which is why I commented on it.

The issue with the comment is not that you scumread me for my comment, but that you were using that as a reason to pushback against Andres' suspicion on you. In any other scenario I would have agreed with it/you 100%.

[ItalianoVD]

I def want to hear from Italiano and may switch my vote there soon ish.

Why do you wanna hear from me if you’re mind is already made up.

Where did I say my mind was made up? I explicitly said the opposite of that...

The tone of the wording here makes it seem like hearing from me is just a formality. The "and may switch my vote there soon ish" is the part that makes it seem this way. If that's not what you mean my bad, but that's what it sounded like to me.

[RLotus]

Since we are slowly grinding to a standstill here without much original line of thought, I propose we just run Dunn to L-1 and force a claim.

Such a lazy wagon, not interested personally

[Datisi]

i was writing out my thought/solving process. that's how i play this game, i try to get as much of my thought process out as possible. doesn't matter if it's contradictory or i can't quite explain it or makes me look bad or whatever. i trust that at some point people are going to townread me for the transparency.

You don’t seem to be giving me this same benefit of the doubt, but you want people to just do this for you. Hmm

lol excuse me what? what kinda benefit of the doubt am i supposed to be giving you here?

@italiano, i'd like this answered.

I've pretty much said and done the same thing you said you do in 565. It's almost word for word my sentiments, thoughts, and reactions to the whole Duchess/Green thing. And multiple people scumread it. You voted me for it. I was writing out my thoughts and the reasons I said what I said and why I was reacting to certain things the way I did, etc. and people were like "Nah bruh, that's scummy and I'm voting for you, so when I saw your comment, it made me do a double take, which is why I commented on it.

The issue with the comment is not that you scumread me for my comment, but that you were using that as a reason to pushback against Andres' suspicion on you. In any other scenario I would have agreed with it/you 100%.

you do understand that's not remotely how that works, right?

like sure. maybe we have a similar approach to townplay, that is "react to things transparently and eventually people will townread me for it", i don't know, i've never played with you, it doesn't matter here. i thought your reactions to duchess/green were scummy. i thought your play after that was scummy. i frankly don't understand your claim/implication here that i should be giving you the benefit of the doubt just because you claim to operate similarly to how i do.

if you're town here, i don't know that. and besides the vague "well the majority of the people is town", there is no reason that i should be assuming you're town here. i'm not gonna be assuming that. the "idea" behind transparency is that eventually it will shine through, but i don't plan to be sitting on the side waiting for it??

and like... why is me using that to pushback against andres an issue to you? he didn't understand why i said something, i explained why i said it. because my explanation to someone's suspicion on me happens to be the same thing you claim you were doing, i'm supposed to automatically trust you?

[Datisi]

like, i dunno. i'd get if i was suspecting you *because* of being transparent (or bc of claiming to be transparent) and then i turned around and yelled at andres for suspecting *me* because of that, but that is not what happened. like, the only way your argument works here is if you're somehow assuming i'm supposed to already know that you're town being transparent, which ??? lemme tell you, you are not obvtown

[Dunnstral]

My point is that your opinion on dunn doesn't logically flow.

Now, people say illogical things all the time. I certainly do. But if someone came in the thread and had Dunn listed near the top of their town reads list, you can believe I'd be suspicious of that person given how that is clashing with my viewpoint as a town member.

Do you think he could be tmi defending me here? (assume I'm town)

[Dunnstral]

In 415 I mentioned everyone else is null... here’s my feelings on those slots.

Datisi

- Unreadable, but something feels odd. The tone of your posts feel almost like you’re thumbing your nose at us. Like you know something and are toying with us. But maybe that’s just your play style. Now a few of the players have played with you and the atmosphere around you is pretty split. I’ve never played with you so I placed you here based on what those people have said.

Dunnstral

- Is an unreadable players since you play the same as both alignments, which is why I have you as null. All I know is your town games.

Harumi

- As you know I’m currently playing two games with you. This one and the another one and I can’t read you, which is why I have you at null. Your play could come from both town and scum.

Tessa

- You’ve only posted several times and I’d say your posts weren’t bad, but not enough to get a real read on you. It’s why I placed you here.

Elements

- I literally don’t have a read for you. You may be like Dunn and play similar regardless of alignment, but I only have a town game for you and this could be that, but not having a scum game to compare, I can only place you here.

I don't think this is true about me

[VP Baltar]

My point is that your opinion on dunn doesn't logically flow.

Now, people say illogical things all the time. I certainly do. But if someone came in the thread and had Dunn listed near the top of their town reads list, you can believe I'd be suspicious of that person given how that is clashing with my viewpoint as a town member.

Do you think he could be tmi defending me here? (assume I'm town)

Sure, anything is possible. After that exchange, I don't think andres is for sure being scummy, but if I wanted to read him that way, it's certainly plausible.

[VP Baltar]

Since we are slowly grinding to a standstill here without much original line of thought, I propose we just run Dunn to L-1 and force a claim.

Such a lazy wagon, not interested personally

ur mom is a lazy wagon

[VP Baltar]

Since we are slowly grinding to a standstill here without much original line of thought, I propose we just run Dunn to L-1 and force a claim.

Such a lazy wagon, not interested personally

ur mom is a lazy wagon

But seriously, you don't think there is any way Italiano is town here? My gut still pings town there given he is just putting his foot in his mouth constantly