Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[Titus]

@Mala, You're pretty right. I don't care.

@Math, Your post asking me to do things isn't in good faith. I just spent hours catching up and your reply is that I'm not "doing things". I asked for your thoughts on Mastina's prism case and I got three posts of nonsense. If you were reading my posts with any eye to listen, you'd know why I am suspecting Cakez at least partially. There was zero follow up to his request for Prism's meta.

I didn't directly say this in my catchup but I feel your townread on Cakez, like your other reads, is largely political. There's no nuance in your reads. I don't really feel like engaging you when doing so will generate 3 posts to my every one and flood out the thread.

[Titus]

Afternoon Vote Count 1.08

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (2): quiet, Spiffeh
MathBlade (5): Bell, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear, Battle Mage, GreyICE
Titus (4): sangres, Prism, SirCakez, MathBlade
SirCakez (4): mastina, Kitty Trauma Team, Dunnstral, Titus

Not voting (2): Tammy, borkjerfkin


Mod notes: 51/85 pages used

Oh wow. Just saw this. I doubt Prism and Cakez are scum together based off this VC. Probably Sangres, Cakez, (Tammy/bork), (Grey/quiet).

[Kitty Trauma Team]

Kay well if you dont care then I don’t. I mean at least attempt to sort me, but instead I’m just thrown away like a piece of trash.

You could be doing other things rather than just deciding to wave the white flag and PL MB.

People are right that you aren’t even trying to sort others. I don’t even know if you do that thing where you tow block people are try to work with them there. I dont have enough time to dig through games anymore and honestly meta is trash, but I’m just having a hard time seeing you so disconnected rn

[Kitty Trauma Team]

Afternoon Vote Count 1.08

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (2): quiet, Spiffeh
MathBlade (5): Bell, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear, Battle Mage, GreyICE
Titus (4): sangres, Prism, SirCakez, MathBlade
SirCakez (4): mastina, Kitty Trauma Team, Dunnstral, Titus

Not voting (2): Tammy, borkjerfkin


Mod notes: 51/85 pages used

Oh wow. Just saw this. I doubt Prism and Cakez are scum together based off this VC. Probably Sangres, Cakez, (Tammy/bork), (Grey/quiet).

Disagree.

[MathBlade]

@Mala, You're pretty right. I don't care.

@Math, Your post asking me to do things isn't in good faith. I just spent hours catching up and your reply is that I'm not "doing things". I asked for your thoughts on Mastina's prism case and I got three posts of nonsense. If you were reading my posts with any eye to listen, you'd know why I am suspecting Cakez at least partially. There was zero follow up to his request for Prism's meta.

I didn't directly say this in my catchup but I feel your townread on Cakez, like your other reads, is largely political. There's no nuance in your reads. I don't really feel like engaging you when doing so will generate 3 posts to my every one and flood out the thread.

Are you okay? Like this doesn’t match town you or scum you. You’re not getting my reads right in your post (esp Cakez who is a scumread). You did catch up yes but you’re usually more active. Not only that but you on one hand are saying if you knew there was a post limit you wouldn’t have signed up yet are railing on me for posting a lot despite having been under attack all day. You’re incoherent at best.

I am not sure what you’re meaning by nuance but I think stopping tons of TvT fights while trying to keep things together requires nuance and coordination. You literally said “Hey you’re not working with your town reads” about the Dunn vote. It’s like you’re all over the map.

Normally you’re way more driven than this and gung-ho. Your play reminds me of newb scum and that is not you.

[Kitty Trauma Team]

Oh shit MB and I are on the same wavelength here

1304 is spot on.

[Kitty Trauma Team]

Afternoon Vote Count 1.08

Afternoon 1 will end in (expired on 2021-03-01 23:59:59)

With 17 players alive, it takes 9 votes to Bronze.

Dunnstral (2): quiet, Spiffeh
MathBlade (5): Bell, Lady Lambdadelta, PookyTheMagicalBear, Battle Mage, GreyICE
Titus (4): sangres, Prism, SirCakez, MathBlade
SirCakez (4): mastina, Kitty Trauma Team, Dunnstral, Titus

Not voting (2): Tammy, borkjerfkin


Mod notes: 51/85 pages used

Oh wow. Just saw this. I doubt Prism and Cakez are scum together based off this VC. Probably Sangres, Cakez, (Tammy/bork), (Grey/quiet).

My scum reads on you three are based on your individual actions. I don't hunt the entire team day one, nor do I look for a quick fix solve.

I have a saying:

I don't need to find the entire scum team. I just need to find one. I can only elim one at a time anyway. I get one and then we'll talk associatives.

-k

[sangres]

Mastina's posts from last night didn't change my read, except maybe for the worse. The Grey side of that exchange, I do like. Cautiously.

Sangres;

I'm definitely a player who thinks townreads can form too early in the game, when I see that happening I think players are being careless or not doing their due diligence or coming to conclusions too fast. That's all if they're town, which most people are, and I haven't hashed out whether this is something scum does more or what but I suspect it's pretty neutral. Do you really think you played in a way where you couldn't reasonable be scum - not just playing well, but playing average - when other players townread you?

That's what I was doing; you didn't see it in Tenet because I replaced into that game.

You're misrepresenting me here.

One player. And you verified that later. And if you looked at my exchange (and Nacho's for that matter), neither of us thought our reaction to Prism's partial claim was anywhere near outside our scumrange. Prism's explanation for why our reactions came off town was nuanced enough that we don't hate it.

My issue wasn't that I thought you were discounting valid townreads on us. It was that you were positing and discounting an unnamed number of townreads that weren't in evidence at that time.

This is not a one-time pattern. You make a sweeping statement related to us. We ask for evidence. You can't find evidence to back up your statement. You can barely cherry pick enough out of our iso to support having a vague impression of something kinda similar, here.

Spoiler:

Sircakez, Battle Mage, GreyIce, and yourself

This is resistance to mathblade, not all are ok with going titus as well; most are instead tunneled on me to a frankly unrealistic degree

Sangres is honorarily ont he list because they keep directing questions at me while supposedly suspecting Mathblade but it doesn't have the same feel

Sircakez, Battle Mage, GreyIce, and yourself

This is resistance to mathblade, not all are ok with going titus as well; most are instead tunneled on me to a frankly unrealistic degree

Sangres is honorarily ont he list because they keep directing questions at me

while supposedly suspecting Mathblade

but it doesn't have the same feel

What?

We've been settled on a Mathblade townread since before the afternoon phase started, and I don't think Nacho ever had a scumread on Math.

We voted you last night.

Nacho told LLD that we'd to Titus if she'll vote there.

And then I moved our vote from you to Titus when Greyice voted there. That was a very comfortable move to make, not only because Nacho had already indicated he'd vote there, but also because my scumread of you has weakened over your content over the last 24 hours. I pushed you on your comments about people giving us too easy townreads because it was one of my points of concern, and I didn't absolutely hate your responses to that.

I have some vague feels that Math's page 30 posts sounded a little too "look how I'm not caring if I get miselimed", but the preponderance of his posts, particularly interactions with Titus and Bell, feel town to Nacho, and I'm very comfortable going along with that.


----------------------

@Math, I'm EXTREMELY uncomfortable with your post count burn rate in a page-restricted game.

Have you played with Math since coming back from hiatus?

I haven't. Nacho probably has more recent game experience than me.

I'm not townreading Math.

I'm going to take this under advisement because Mathblade's approach to the game, particularly that bit about 1 but not 2 scum in prism/bork gave me a nasty case of hives. Maybe you can be the counter-balance to my tendencies wrt

I kinda feel the same but I'm not sure how much of it comes from the Dunn wagon basically popping up as a counter to the Mathblade push.

This is what I was looking at when I made the post.

I like kuribo's posts today, and I liked mala's interaction with me yesterday. Feeling better about KTT.

---------------

LLD I have questions but I'm not willing to push you for more details on some things. Nothing more to say here atm, just...frustration.

---------------

Sircakez, Battle Mage, GreyIce, and yourself

This is resistance to mathblade, not all are ok with going titus as well; most are instead tunneled on me to a frankly unrealistic degree

Sangres is honorarily ont he list because they keep directing questions at me

while supposedly suspecting Mathblade

but it doesn't have the same feel

What?

We've been settled on a Mathblade townread since before the afternoon phase started, and I don't think Nacho ever had a scumread on Math.

We voted you last night.

Nacho told LLD that we'd to Titus if she'll vote there.

And then I moved our vote from you to Titus when Greyice voted there. That was a very comfortable move to make, not only because Nacho had already indicated he'd vote there, but also because my scumread of you has weakened over your content over the last 24 hours. I pushed you on your comments about people giving us too easy townreads because it was one of my points of concern, and I didn't absolutely hate your responses to that.

I have some vague feels that Math's page 30 posts sounded a little too "look how I'm not caring if I get miselimed", but the preponderance of his posts, particularly interactions with Titus and Bell, feel town to Nacho, and I'm very comfortable going along with that.


----------------------

@Math, I'm EXTREMELY uncomfortable with your post count burn rate in a page-restricted game.

This type of posting is why I feel sangres can be scum.

They're objecting to me, yet sheeping my opinion about Mathblade's post rate. He gives no real reason for his objection to me and tries to pass the buck off onto LLD for their read.

They're seeking a popular miselimination to be safe on. If Math is group scum, turbo lim this. If Math is traitor, major FoS. If Math is town, minor FoS as he could be leaving/creating an out to vote Math when convienent.

Math's posts over the last 24 hours have degraded my townread some. They feel kinda trollish. I still feel like I'm predisposed to bristle over his playstyle (this was where I was at pre-hiatus and that apparently hasn't changed much with time away), but he's in a place where he can't try to control the game and was never going to be in a place to control the game to the extent I think he likes to in this player list. Or even in half this player list.

Re you, I was predisposed to bristle over your playstyle pre-hiatus, too, though for different reasons. That's apparently changed. Your posts aren't pissing me off. But they're not impressing me as coming from town. At all.

Re your Prism vote based on Mastina's case: ugh. I'm not going to get into an exchange of walls over flavor with Mastina, but her case for HG being scum flavor really is simplistically awful. HG is driven to do terrible things in season 2 because of overwhelming grief and a sense of being lost in a horrible, evil, irredemable time instead of the golden age that the steampunk-y science fiction genre she wrote expected. She doesn't come to her senses at the moment of death, but from a place of pure reason and love. She doesn't covet artifacts for power and control. She doesn't sell artifacts to people who will use them for personal aggrandizement. She isn't warped by artifacts. She's a flawed, redeemable and ultimately redeemed human being who goes on to do good. A lot of good.

Anyway. The flavor is not why I think Prism is town. I was townreading Prism before the flavor reveal. The flavor certainly doesn't shake that read, though.

-------------------

Prism could you talk about your Cakez read? Never mind, I see it's a work in progress. I can wait.

------------------

Kuribo had already touched on what he didn’t like some what about your slot when he posted with SC/Prism/LLD. When he’s feeling better hopefully you two can interact and get that sorted. IDK I have never been the best at reading either you/nacho. Usually you were able to spot town-Mala over scum-Mala and work out with me once you had that sorted. I just have this vibe you are probably town, but again it’s still early and I need to interact more with you/others.

Yeah I saw that. I dunno. Maybe my Prism read isn't getting the rigor it should. I feel really good, though, that Nacho and I got to the same place on that read based on the same data, even though we have mostly different bodies of experience with Prism. This is the first time we've both played with him, if I don't count the Xeno game. My hydra with Tammy and Syr was only alive for a very short day 1. It almost seems silly to count that game because it was dominated by town-Cabd and his reads/gambits/crumb-reading, neighborhoods, etc. And the scum team just kinda feel over their feet and got elimed one after another for a perfect win. Nobody else's reads really mattered, in the sense of changing the outcome.

Anyway. Prism does have an incredibly formidable scum game as I observed as mod in Newbie 2051 (the Iceland game that's been mentioned a few times). This doesn't look like Amazingly-TOWN scum-Prism, though. Like I said before, it just looks town to me.

-----------------

@Bork, what are your thoughts on stuff?

I feel like Battle Mage is in a sort of blind spot. I need to work on that.

[MathBlade]

Since you have that saying Kuribo join me on Titus please? I do scumread Cakez but Titus is admittedly stronger and in her own words she doesn’t care. I also don’t wanna vote who Mastina wants as she seems really scummy and narrow unlike her usual spread self.

[borkjerfkin]

Same applies to Prism: why can't Prism, as scum, with a scum flavor of HG Wells, yet a fakeclaim of (some random character), decide "screw claiming (some random character), I wanna claim HG Wells because I know flavorwise that's plausibly town"?
Why can't Prism, as scum, with a scum flavor of HG Wells (during her tenure as a villain), have a legit fakeclaim of...HG Wells, during her tenure as a hero?

Prism has already admitted to being familiar with the flavor and knowing that their claim is not one that is, inherently, town.

And from mechanical clues combined with indicators from play

, I think that this is a scum claim. I recognize why it could be town, but the circumstantial clues point to it being scum.

Nobody is saying prism

can't

be scum because of HG. And yeah sure I guess HG could be a legit scum role with the fakeclaim of the same character, fine. I've certainly done this in my setups once or twice (Xenoblade, Lunar). But that possibility doesn't make it a scum claim without allowing for the massive flipping of the burden of proof you're doing

And you could've just said that but instead you went off on this weird "but she's a villllllllllain" tangent to show why prism is necessarily scum in the here and now

like if the bolded is the true you could just leave out all the other circumstantial shit and just post why you think that

[SirCakez]

I can probably track down the quotes of other players who have said you're not north of null, too.

Please do (they don't exist)

[SirCakez]

Also this is trash I have never used this tactic as scum and I never will because I'm a lazy fucker

lol self-meta

Ok then you meta me idc you'll get the same result

[SirCakez]

Depends on how you feel about UN.

I don't know who that is
Maybe I don't want to

[SirCakez]

I do scumread Cakez

Literally just earlier today you said I was never scum

[SirCakez]

Bork flavor argument is useless do something productive

[borkjerfkin]

@Bork, what are your thoughts on stuff?

stuff that you particularly commented on here, off the cuff:

Game is starting to get a little drowned out by non-AI chest thumping but:

Still think Math is town; what do you mean by "Trollish" - reading this as more "I'm continually slighted by LLD; what can I even do here?" and am not bothered by it
I actually like everything from Dunn 1125+
Agree w/ Prism town and don't really see anything that suggests otherwise in that body of work. Whatever, Prism could probably run circles around me if they wanted but I'm just not seeing the angles of attack that some others are making; seems breadth focused, analytic, bristly when attacked for the wrong reasons, pretty much everything I saw in 2181.
I think Cakez is town?; I noted that he called out Prism's read on me in particular as something that he disagreed with, but had me in null, and was looking for another spot where he and Prism differed in a more profound way and couldn't really find one. is poking at stones mostly ignored by others.
Don't really like anything Mastina has posted so far, esp wrt that flavor angle
Don't like any of Titus' voting patterns esp wrt Mathblade.
Don't really like Battle Mage's stance around Titus and Math or Dunn.

[Kitty Trauma Team]

Yeet

VOTE: Titus

[borkjerfkin]

VOTE: Titus

[borkjerfkin]

Bork flavor argument is useless do something productive

That's not a very fair representation of my angle.

Mastina's making a really shallow argument and I don't like it. It just happens to be about flavor.

[borkjerfkin]

Bork flavor argument is useless do something productive

That's not a very fair representation of my angle.

Mastina's making a really shallow argument and I don't like it. It just happens to be about flavor.

[MathBlade]

@Bork, what are your thoughts on stuff?

stuff that you particularly commented on here, off the cuff:

Game is starting to get a little drowned out by non-AI chest thumping but:

Still think Math is town; what do you mean by "Trollish" - reading this as more "I'm continually slighted by LLD; what can I even do here?" and am not bothered by it
I actually like everything from Dunn 1125+
Agree w/ Prism town and don't really see anything that suggests otherwise in that body of work. Whatever, Prism could probably run circles around me if they wanted but I'm just not seeing the angles of attack that some others are making; seems breadth focused, analytic, bristly when attacked for the wrong reasons, pretty much everything I saw in 2181.
I think Cakez is town?; I noted that he called out Prism's read on me in particular as something that he disagreed with, but had me in null, and was looking for another spot where he and Prism differed in a more profound way and couldn't really find one. is poking at stones mostly ignored by others.
Don't really like anything Mastina has posted so far, esp wrt that flavor angle
Don't like any of Titus' voting patterns esp wrt Mathblade.
Don't really like Battle Mage's stance around Titus and Math or Dunn.

I think you’re a fine wine. You’re only improving with time.

[borkjerfkin]

thank you.
i would sig that if i weren't committed to the beefycheese.

i might anyway.

[Kitty Trauma Team]

There might be a little dust on the bottle
But don't let it fool ya about what's inside
There might be a little dust on the bottle
It's one of those things that gets sweeter with time

Anyways. I’m going to bed - I got to be functional in the morning.

Right now I’m good w Titus vote although the Bork jumped bothered me, but he was scumreading her so maybe not.

Also a bunch of posts w/in the last hr or two that weren’t signed were by Mala, but should
Be able to tell that from my interactions

-M

[sangres]

@Bork, what are your thoughts on stuff?

stuff that you particularly commented on here, off the cuff:

Game is starting to get a little drowned out by non-AI chest thumping but:

Still think Math is town; what do you mean by "Trollish" - reading this as more "I'm continually slighted by LLD; what can I even do here?" and am not bothered by it

Thanks. This is why I wish Nacho was around, to counterbalance my predispositions. I know they're there, but I can't fully stomp them.

I actually like everything from Dunn 1125+

I like that post, too. And I feel like the BoP stuff from Spiffeh related to Dunn's play in that game is unfair, though I don't scumread Spiffeh for thinking that way.

Agree w/ Prism town and don't really see anything that suggests otherwise in that body of work. Whatever, Prism could probably run circles around me if they wanted but I'm just not seeing the angles of attack that some others are making; seems breadth focused, analytic, bristly when attacked for the wrong reasons, pretty much everything I saw in 2181.

Agree. I don't think similar tone and tempo to that game makes Prism town. It's the content here that I feel comfortable with.

I think Cakez is town?; I noted that he called out Prism's read on me in particular as something that he disagreed with, but had me in null, and was looking for another spot where he and Prism differed in a more profound way and couldn't really find one. is poking at stones mostly ignored by others.

Yeah. I laughed a hollow laugh at Pooky's jibe about self-meta there.

Don't really like anything Mastina has posted so far, esp wrt that flavor angle

Obviously, same. I probably won't move my vote there without Nacho having a look because I have a fair bit of respect for nacho's ability to read Mastina, though I still and will always keep the Walking Dead game in mind.

Don't like any of Titus' voting patterns esp wrt Mathblade.

I just don't feel any conviction from Titus, and I definitely don't feel like she's made the slightest effort to engage me despite developing quite the scumread over the last 3-4 pages.

Don't really like Battle Mage's stance around Titus and Math or Dunn.

I liked his early-early posts and thought I could see where he was coming from. That's slight sync with where his head appeared to be at disappeared before morning phase ended and I've never recovered it.

We need to do more of this.

[sangres]

welp. screwed those quotes up. I think they're understandable. Let me know if not and I'll redo.