TM 2021 Large Normal 2: Wikipedia Integer Facts (Over)

[OkaPoka]

im convinced

VOTE: agar[\vote]

[Titus]

I'm prod dodging. I can't post here tonight. My energy is spent.

[Titus]

I might be depressed.

Don't be surprised if I don't post tomorrow. I'm trying to sort that out.

X post all games.

[implosion]

38

The Messier object M38, a magnitude 7.0 open cluster in the constellation Auriga
The New General Catalogue object NGC 38, a spiral galaxy in the constellation Pisces

Vote Count 3.3

AGar

(3): Hopkirk, Almost50, Xtoxm

Winter Flakes

(2): Cephrir, jjh927

jjh927

(2): innocentvillager, OkaPoka

Hopkirk

(1): AGar

mastina

(1): Winter Flakes

Bell

(1): mastina

Not Voting

(3): Titus, Ythan, Bell

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to eliminate. Deadline is set for 1:00 AM PST on March 9, in (expired on 2021-03-09 05:00:00).

Prodding Winter Flakes.

[Winter Flakes]

sorry uni has started again so I've been really under the pump between that and work ):

will try catch up soon

[Hopkirk]

Deconstructing Agar’s case. I’ll follow up on each of these points in the subsequent agar case when I eventually get the time for it. This should be enough that y’all decide to start voting Agar though…


1.) Hopkirk threw RC’s name in because he knew it would enrage LLD and Hopkirk is obviously a piece of shit who’d do this as scum so must be scum
This is the thing everything Agar’s been saying is founded on since it’s essentially when he decided he’d treat anything I said as coming from scum then start looking for explanations for why it came from scum. Two main points on this

- Hopkirk made that joke with the intent of pissing LLD off. Response – like… fuck you? This is premised on me being a shitty person and the fact that you’ve stuck to it the entire game at what seems to be 100% likelihood for literally no reason means you’re accusing me of being a shitty person. You’re saying that ‘Scum!Hopkirk would say this to start conflict’ which is deeply insulting even when I’m town since you’re saying you’re convinced that I’m the kind of person who’d do that as scum (/saying you think it’s within my range. It’s not because I’m not an asshole trying to cause conflict and cause people to be uncomfortable for an advantage). Either you’re scum or you’re actively insulting me so I’m hoping you’re scum here. Pretty sure about it too.
You can see me joking about toxic 1v1s all the time. See one night stand for a whole bunch of examples where I suggest I get into a toxic 1v1 with someone, we throw joking insults at each other for a while, then we townread each other.

- Hopkirk wouldn’t make that joke as town but would if scum. Response- (my jokes are presumably NAI. In irl mafia Hectic once realized my jokes were better quality as scum because I don’t preplan them so it was indicative I was thinking more about joking than scumhunting (it did work to pocket people until then), when I realized this I scaled it back to the point where the tell no longer worked). I believe any joke I make as scum/town I could/would make as the other alignment.

(also other stuff like it relies on Hopkirk being aware how much they dislike RC and so on, but that’s covered by the above two points)
So this is based on a flawed and insulting view of me as a person and backed by nothing but agar going ‘yeah, this seems like something Hopkirk would (only) do as scum’ and becoming locked on that without any actual thought on it. More likely he was doing this to try and turn LLD on me rather than pushing Hercule again. He knew it was a TvT and he wanted to make it worse by trying to misinterpret what I was saying in a crappy way. EVERYONE who’s commented on him has disagreed with him on it including- Dunn and LLD themselves (as they didn’t comment on it and would have if they thought it was serious). Despite everyone disagreeing with him personality read on me, he’s stuck to it despite having never met me before outside of the abandoned d1.

Agar specifically took something that was clearly intended between a joke and used it to try and start conflict between me/LLD – a TvT. Like it’s clearly just outright attempting to stir up issues between town



2.) Hopkirk says things then clarifies the meaning later.
Counterpoint- this is how I talk/think.
Evidence- here’s some posts from my most recent game (town obviously) that finished before team mafia began.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12485305
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12494327
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12475737

that's without anyone actually commenting on issues with my phrasing. if it's commented on obviously i'm going to be clearer. everything i said follows logically in terms of meaning and your misrepresentation of it nobody agrees with. you keep saying there's tons of examples but you have ONE from before you said there were tons, it's been disproven so isn't valid, and you haven't brought up others.

For more, read any/all of my other games because this is my style. I’m aware my wording can sometimes be confusing. There’s a solution to that – ask me what I mean if you’re confused what I mean. Agar has never done this.

At no point has agar

asked me to clarify

what I mean. He’s exclusively gone to pointing out that it must come from scum when he’s claiming my meaning is ambiguous/fake instead of asking clarifying questions to

actually work out

what I mean.

Choosing not to do this is bad if he aims to seriously work out my alignment since if he’s trying to show that I change my meaning when asked about it then… he isn’t taking the obvious step to try and legitimately do that. He’s instead using each alleged ‘example’ to say ‘see this is why Hop is scum’. This is working backwards from a position while using whatever I say to try and further justify it, and reeks of posturing.

Notably, nobody who’s commented on any of these examples have agreed with him, people have disagreed (eg Dunn who is town), nobody who’s familiar with my play is in agreement with him while people who ARE familiar with it are disagreeing with him. He’s instead relying on some guy I’ve never heard let alone played with.

(these two are less comprehensive as they don’t factor into my case on Agar so they’re inherently less substantial)


3.) I’m getting bored tbh. See literally any game because I constantly ask people what they think about x or their thoughts when I’m in conflict with someone else. Here’s one example of me asking how they viewed me (I was town obviously) based on my half of a toxic 1v1 (what I called it before, during, and afterwards) because one is enough to disprove this when you can find it in any of my games -eg https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12475447
ctrl f that thread with 'what do you think' or 'how do you read' or 'how are you reading' for examples of some of this other stuff


4.) Did you read the last game where I attacked Unwnd the moment he started pushing me? See also… gee is it any other game again? It sure is. If people push me then I push back. Sometimes that’s with scumreads, othertimes it’s just by throwing shade at them. Like with LLD in Death Curse that I mentioned a few times earlier when I had them as locktown and they scumread me. I just kept throwing shade at them in basically half my posts- stuff like accusing them of being a bad townleader who was dooming us all for x/y reason.


Additions

- Ooh, it’s stuff that Agar didn’t comment on at the time that’s not even true. If people think my reasons for townlocking players are invalid maybe they should comment on them. Don’t pay any attention to Agar here (because what he’s saying isn’t reflective of reality) who, instead of asking more questions about the reads, just says they’re invalid as the executive summary of the read isn’t good enough for them hence must be 100% of it. I still hard stand by each of the reads if anyone was wondering.

- Can anyone read my iso and seriously say there’s no reasons there why I don’t like Agar? This is objectively untrue. A more substantial case I need time to make that I only really have over the weekend (unless I’m pissed off by stuff like… agar)

- I have a shitton of scumhunting. Well, I say scumhunting, most of it is townhunting since I prefer to find town then POE. As is very clear. See multiple games where I’ve described my style in detail to be this. Agar is my most confident scumread, but I’m also confident the rest of the scum are within my POE. I ask questions of other people on reads as it helps me sort them + I’m willing to sheep my townreads reads. None of this is meaningful.

- This isn’t actually saying anything? It’s saying ‘Hop’s reads are wifom. Scum like to use wifom. Hence, Hop is scum’. That’s just… bad logic at best?

Note - my agar case is mostly pointing out how bad his progression/read on me is since it's outside of something i can see coming from a reasonable town perspective who's actually thinking about things rather than trying to justify a terribly flimsy read that he got called out on but somehow isn't getting called out on by enough people to die... there's not a smoking gun beyond that, it's just constant terrible interactions in regards to me

[Hopkirk]

and that's beyond the point i think i could effort as scum (especially during the day) so yeah...

[innocentvillager]

jjh is a really bad vote here and I'm basically hard-convinced he is town here. (Titus, I know you don't want to, but please trust me on this for now.)

ugh fucking MS deleted my post

ill just summarize what i typed: im not blind sheeping you here without reasoning sorry, i want to see something

i don't have great reasons for jjh scum so im open to moving off

no one has been able to explain why he's town (if im wrong please correct me)

he has maybe one redeeming quality i see which is a very weak tonal read that seems like he's trying to figure out what's going on but that could just be a playstyle thing

[innocentvillager]

im convinced

VOTE: agar[\vote]

is that a real vote

idk on AGar anymore either, he's back in my PoE, even though he's playing quite differently from his one recent scumgame and sort of being his town!tunnelly self i guess that just doesn't mean much

[innocentvillager]

I might be depressed.

Don't be surprised if I don't post tomorrow. I'm trying to sort that out.

X post all games.

:/ please take care of yourself Titus! mental health super important obviously moreso than this game and mafia can sometimes not help with that

[innocentvillager]

also moving tomorrow so won't be on much today/tomorrow, also was on less this week as you can see

[Bell]

@Hopkirk, haven't you not rolled scum in like years? What do you know about your scum range?

[Hopkirk]

i didn't especially like scum in the past (if i remember right) and i play ~10 hours per week of irl mafia/mafia related games (currently over discord/video). I can roughly estimate my range based on that

[Bell]

Oh. Well, that make both makes sense and feels misleading as hell from death curse. It's like a technicality.

[OkaPoka]

hop now that lld is not here we can talk freely

i got shat on by lld for bringing up rc, did you really think that bringing up rc again is you know, not in poor taste? i think you made a joke in poor taste but i mean you have to admit it was in poor taste

[OkaPoka]

im convinced

VOTE: agar[\vote]

is that a real vote

idk on AGar anymore either, he's back in my PoE, even though he's playing quite differently from his one recent scumgame and sort of being his town!tunnelly self i guess that just doesn't mean much

votes are a societal construct

that being said agar is in my townpool

[Titus]

Deconstructing Agar’s case.

Claimed checked by an annocing neopolitan.

Not reading the rest.

[Titus]

VOTE: Agar

Wagon totally pure. Not locktowning Agar.

[mastina]

Fair warning: will be fairly V/LA due to lifeguard training stuff. Can post right now tho, so...

No one ever fucking considered that scum might *gasp*

lie

.

To be fair.
I presented doubt towards Titus for that exact reason.

However.

This is a roleclaim that will literally be confirmed by another player. It's not something scum will lie about, especially not in the way Hopkirk did. The evolution of the claimed result was incredibly genuine.

VOTE: AGar

I'd actually prefer OkaPoka > Bell > AGar > WinterFlakes so AGar's not my first choice, but he's infinitesimally a better elimination than jjh and has a high chance of flipping scum, soooooooo.

[Cephrir]

I really want to at least force winter flakes alt of uncrowned to play mafia today and I would appreciate some help forcing content out of them.

[Cephrir]

Agar is at E-2. I do not trust most of the players voting him to have good reads, nor am I satisfied with most of their hop ons. I am personally town reading him and have had fairly good reads so far and also everyone agrees I'm town. Idk feelsbadman.

[OkaPoka]

lmao so mastina is playing politics

[OkaPoka]

jjh is at 2 votes and iv just expressed apprehension about keeping his vote there - are you really claiming this agar vote has anything to do with jjh's wagon?

[OkaPoka]

in fact

i agree mastina isn't a political player

she's just open wolfing

VOTE: mastina

no shot she votes scumread no 3 and tries to disguise it using jjh especially at this stage

[Cephrir]

I actually dont fully hate that take.