Titus v Nancy Drew (Game Over)

[Nancy Drew 39]

Everyone ISO Sherlock and Watson and give me 3 townreads and 3 scumreads solely based on that.

This is a serious request, please do this. I think the more people do this, the better our chances of getting a scumflip today.

[Fey]

Meeeeeeh. I have given my reads already, I don't think going off of one iso is a good metric.

[Fey]

I'll be staying on W+P.

[Titus]

*thinks about reading ISO*

Nope.

[Alisae]

VOTE: unvote

@mod

not counting it. If ur unvoting use unvote tags. Vote in a way which the bot will pick it up please.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Everyone ISO Sherlock and Watson and give me 1 townreads and 1 scumreads solely based on that.

This is a serious request, please do this. I think the more people do this, the better our chances of getting a scumflip today.

Here I simplified it for you all. Give 1 -3 trs and 1 -3 srs from Sherlock and Watson ISO please.

[DkKoba]

Everyone ISO Sherlock and Watson and give me 3 townreads and 3 scumreads solely based on that.

This is a serious request, please do this. I think the more people do this, the better our chances of getting a scumflip today.

let me pour a drink first

[DkKoba]

VOTE: unvote

@mod

not counting it. If ur unvoting use unvote tags. Vote in a way which the bot will pick it up please.

VOTE: alisae

[Titus]

UNVOTE:

[Morning Tweet]

VOTE: War and Peace

[Alisae]

Starcrossed has been prodded.

Please announce V/LA for more than 48 hours inactivity!
And put up flags. You can do this by going to the UCP --> Vacation/Limited Access tab.
Those are very helpful for Alisaes!
Thanks

Love, Alisae <3

[Starcrossed]

Here I simplified it for you all. Give 1 -3 trs and 1 -3 srs from Sherlock and Watson ISO please.

Sorry have been awol Nancy!!!

I will get on this right away tomm <3



~Pooks & Kanna

[KidAmn]

oh yeah, there's probably some weird overpowered third party in this game too isn't there... sigh

Uh. No. Literally mod-confirmed 4 scum 13 town. It's Day 3, this has definitely come up before. Stop it. Get some help.

VOTE: dkkoba

really dont care

Reaction testing and memeing around in Day 3 is stupid, but so is this reaction

Now, I wonder what was going on here that makes me look towny... I'll give you a guess.

Just one drop in the bucket.

Being the only person voting for unflipped (at the time) scum while the wagon careens off into townsville isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for you, more of a "hey just gonna park my vote here so I can point at it later"

Lots and lots of spam. Me likey.

Not everyone in this spamfest of the prior few pages is scum, got it, thanks Titus

(mostly in order)
red eye knights - confirmed town
-----------------
morning tweet - I refuse to believe noraa is capable of playing this way as mafia even with titus in her ear
gamma emerald (KidAmn) - for like 99% of the game they didn't exhibit their mafia tells but started to near the end before they replaced out, overall I don't think they are mafia
fey - socially they rub me the wrong way but skipping night makes no sense as a mafia role
olaf - reasons
clidd - moving to the beat of his own drum & has the same vibe as the last game we played where he was town
dkkoba - their role makes no sense to me as a town role, but I also don't think titus would pick it as a role, so if they're mafia it's a fakeclaim; overall I can't really read dkkoba yet since this is a unique environment
starcrossed - not really swayed either way by the message thing, and not familiar with either of them but #2444 is a bad look
saraharas - text walls that ain't nobody got time for (sry ircher), poe, and I have no idea who they are so I can't even check if I get un-lazy
toogeloo - I can relate to their sentiment of wanting days to be shorter, but I also wonder if that's like an unwitting spillover from a frustrated mafia chat with how gung ho s&w were
dunnstral - So I initially had dunnstral as middle of the road in the sense that I didn't feel strongly about them one way or the other and too lazy to check what is normal for them, but their iso made me really interested in knowing if their curt posting style was normal for them (spoiler: it is). I thought it was a waste of time at first, but then I noticed a difference between their town and mafia game
mafia game town game
It's not easily noticed at first, but once you see it it's hard to unsee. The thing that their town game has that their mafia game doesn't is

passion

. The closest they came to passion in their mafia game was when they were on the chopping block. And even though their mafia game was as a replacement, that town game was a vs game just like this one. The fact that they are ostensibly not-vanilla + the difference in posting between the two vs games makes this easy VOTE: dunnstral

also jeez that mountain of posts as I go to post this lol

here have a dog

Even as someone at the top end of this list I can comfortably say most of this list is hot garbo and indicative of a complete lack of intent to gamesolve

Everyone ISO Sherlock and Watson and give me 3 townreads and 3 scumreads solely based on that.

yes mom

The mason thing is scummy too

ur just jealous ur not a mason with us

That'd right Dunn is totally not a mason

-S

Fey isn't "horrible"

It's day 1 mason buddy

People gotta get their d1s outta their system

-S

:eyes emoji:

(side note the worst part of this game is having to constantly go back to page 1 and work out who the fuck everyone is thank you for coming to my TED talk)

akarin is so f'n town it's like, insane

is this what it was like being with chito and yuuri, I've never had that experience from the outside

:EYES EMOJI:

S&W's 2807 is so deeply non-committal about their reads it hurts and should have been more obvious scumspew in retrospect but also I wasn't actually here then so hey
particular red flags:

I don't think Akarin is actually under any pressure right now, otherwise I probably would have put this slot a lot higher.

In any case, Akarin is actually kinda a sweaty scum player and stuff like 942, 949, and 967 are tonally strongly town indicative.

"I'd TR them higher if I thought they needed it" woof

Watson thinks this is an above rand hit, and while we're still working out the exact ordering of our PoE I'm not sure I'm so much more confident on anything inside {5uffering, Italiano, clidd, Pooky, shellyc} that I would want to go on the over this right now. Mostly though I just think it's easier to think about the game without having to think about Saudade's alignment, and I don't mind giving 5uffering *a night* to see if scum kill him or something, or see if scum kill W&P which I think would make evaluating 5uffering easier.

this makes me somewhat more confident on PB as town because I don't see S&W being so non-committal on

the person at the very bottom of their readlist

without knowing they would want to hard-distance from an eventual wagon

VOTE: 5uffering

Nancy this is just *the correct* choice, I don't know that either of us *scumread* this slot but we don't need a flip that flips red today, we need a flip *that makes the game winnable*

*yikes*

batsunami if you think 3 people are scum and then they start voting each other as is the case with clidd toogeloo and i
you shouldn't try to fit conclusions to us still being scum and why that means we're bussing or faking 1v1s
you should reconsider your reads and realise that's unlikely

Sorry snowman but this makes my skin crawl

This feels like exactly the kind of interaction I'd have with scumbuds who aren't in any real danger

Olaf if scum would be a huge hit. Clidd is a fine compromise on a vt claim. Pink Ball is probably above rand scum even tho I don't trust myself to read him correctly.

super evasive language, "Olaf if scum" (not long after talking about how their posting made S&Ws skin crawl), "Clidd is a fine compromise", "PB is probably above rand scum" no commitment to anything makes this ISO hard to pick out

I think Pink Ball is being very reasonable about how he is handling you. Nancy. Relax. And Focus.

Focus.

If you really want Starcrossed vanilla cop checked over mastina, I'd be welcome to hear why, otherwise I think mastina is the better vanilla cop check based on the information that town will need to be able to discuss on day 2 to solve effectively.

This though feels deeply manipulative and makes me feel like S&W wanted to play good cop while lowkey hoping to keep Nancy/PB at odds

But if vanilla cop gets no results, doesn’t that put a target on them?

I think they they are a more likely NK than you based on no one is sus on them.

I think we're operating on different assumptions about what a strong nightkill in this list would be for the first night phase.

Actually, there is another slot that would be a stronger rolestop than me, but I don't think Titus saw it so I'd rather not discuss it. Based on the information that is commonly acknowledged in the thread,

I am the better rolestop target at this point.

as an aside scum have p. high incentive to encourage a town rolestopper (waves hi) to be on them rather than other town PRs in case anyone was still doubting I'm town

Based *solely* on this ISO:
TRs: PB, Clidd, 5uffering
SRs: REK, Olaf, Dunn (the last one is more gut than anything but I've just accepted that I'm not gonna even approach reading the whole of this fuckin game any more)

[Nancy Drew 39]

One thing interests me is that literally no one is defending W & P. If W & P are scum, where are their buddies?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Spoiler:

oh yeah, there's probably some weird overpowered third party in this game too isn't there... sigh

Uh. No. Literally mod-confirmed 4 scum 13 town. It's Day 3, this has definitely come up before. Stop it. Get some help.

VOTE: dkkoba

really dont care

Reaction testing and memeing around in Day 3 is stupid, but so is this reaction

Now, I wonder what was going on here that makes me look towny... I'll give you a guess.

Just one drop in the bucket.

Being the only person voting for unflipped (at the time) scum while the wagon careens off into townsville isn't exactly a ringing endorsement for you, more of a "hey just gonna park my vote here so I can point at it later"

Lots and lots of spam. Me likey.

Not everyone in this spamfest of the prior few pages is scum, got it, thanks Titus

(mostly in order)
red eye knights - confirmed town
-----------------
morning tweet - I refuse to believe noraa is capable of playing this way as mafia even with titus in her ear
gamma emerald (KidAmn) - for like 99% of the game they didn't exhibit their mafia tells but started to near the end before they replaced out, overall I don't think they are mafia
fey - socially they rub me the wrong way but skipping night makes no sense as a mafia role
olaf - reasons
clidd - moving to the beat of his own drum & has the same vibe as the last game we played where he was town
dkkoba - their role makes no sense to me as a town role, but I also don't think titus would pick it as a role, so if they're mafia it's a fakeclaim; overall I can't really read dkkoba yet since this is a unique environment
starcrossed - not really swayed either way by the message thing, and not familiar with either of them but #2444 is a bad look
saraharas - text walls that ain't nobody got time for (sry ircher), poe, and I have no idea who they are so I can't even check if I get un-lazy
toogeloo - I can relate to their sentiment of wanting days to be shorter, but I also wonder if that's like an unwitting spillover from a frustrated mafia chat with how gung ho s&w were
dunnstral - So I initially had dunnstral as middle of the road in the sense that I didn't feel strongly about them one way or the other and too lazy to check what is normal for them, but their iso made me really interested in knowing if their curt posting style was normal for them (spoiler: it is). I thought it was a waste of time at first, but then I noticed a difference between their town and mafia game
mafia game town game
It's not easily noticed at first, but once you see it it's hard to unsee. The thing that their town game has that their mafia game doesn't is

passion

. The closest they came to passion in their mafia game was when they were on the chopping block. And even though their mafia game was as a replacement, that town game was a vs game just like this one. The fact that they are ostensibly not-vanilla + the difference in posting between the two vs games makes this easy VOTE: dunnstral

also jeez that mountain of posts as I go to post this lol

here have a dog

Even as someone at the top end of this list I can comfortably say most of this list is hot garbo and indicative of a complete lack of intent to gamesolve

Everyone ISO Sherlock and Watson and give me 3 townreads and 3 scumreads solely based on that.

yes mom

The mason thing is scummy too

ur just jealous ur not a mason with us

That'd right Dunn is totally not a mason

-S

Fey isn't "horrible"

It's day 1 mason buddy

People gotta get their d1s outta their system

-S

:eyes emoji:

(side note the worst part of this game is having to constantly go back to page 1 and work out who the fuck everyone is thank you for coming to my TED talk)

akarin is so f'n town it's like, insane

is this what it was like being with chito and yuuri, I've never had that experience from the outside

:EYES EMOJI:

S&W's 2807 is so deeply non-committal about their reads it hurts and should have been more obvious scumspew in retrospect but also I wasn't actually here then so hey
particular red flags:

I don't think Akarin is actually under any pressure right now, otherwise I probably would have put this slot a lot higher.

In any case, Akarin is actually kinda a sweaty scum player and stuff like 942, 949, and 967 are tonally strongly town indicative.

"I'd TR them higher if I thought they needed it" woof

Watson thinks this is an above rand hit, and while we're still working out the exact ordering of our PoE I'm not sure I'm so much more confident on anything inside {5uffering, Italiano, clidd, Pooky, shellyc} that I would want to go on the over this right now. Mostly though I just think it's easier to think about the game without having to think about Saudade's alignment, and I don't mind giving 5uffering *a night* to see if scum kill him or something, or see if scum kill W&P which I think would make evaluating 5uffering easier.

this makes me somewhat more confident on PB as town because I don't see S&W being so non-committal on

the person at the very bottom of their readlist

without knowing they would want to hard-distance from an eventual wagon

VOTE: 5uffering

Nancy this is just *the correct* choice, I don't know that either of us *scumread* this slot but we don't need a flip that flips red today, we need a flip *that makes the game winnable*

*yikes*

batsunami if you think 3 people are scum and then they start voting each other as is the case with clidd toogeloo and i
you shouldn't try to fit conclusions to us still being scum and why that means we're bussing or faking 1v1s
you should reconsider your reads and realise that's unlikely

Sorry snowman but this makes my skin crawl

This feels like exactly the kind of interaction I'd have with scumbuds who aren't in any real danger

Olaf if scum would be a huge hit. Clidd is a fine compromise on a vt claim. Pink Ball is probably above rand scum even tho I don't trust myself to read him correctly.

super evasive language, "Olaf if scum" (not long after talking about how their posting made S&Ws skin crawl), "Clidd is a fine compromise", "PB is probably above rand scum" no commitment to anything makes this ISO hard to pick out

I think Pink Ball is being very reasonable about how he is handling you. Nancy. Relax. And Focus.

Focus.

If you really want Starcrossed vanilla cop checked over mastina, I'd be welcome to hear why, otherwise I think mastina is the better vanilla cop check based on the information that town will need to be able to discuss on day 2 to solve effectively.

This though feels deeply manipulative and makes me feel like S&W wanted to play good cop while lowkey hoping to keep Nancy/PB at odds

But if vanilla cop gets no results, doesn’t that put a target on them?

I think they they are a more likely NK than you based on no one is sus on them.

I think we're operating on different assumptions about what a strong nightkill in this list would be for the first night phase.

Actually, there is another slot that would be a stronger rolestop than me, but I don't think Titus saw it so I'd rather not discuss it. Based on the information that is commonly acknowledged in the thread,

I am the better rolestop target at this point.

as an aside scum have p. high incentive to encourage a town rolestopper (waves hi) to be on them rather than other town PRs in case anyone was still doubting I'm town

Based *solely* on this ISO:
TRs: PB, Clidd, 5uffering
SRs: REK, Olaf, Dunn (the last one is more gut than anything but I've just accepted that I'm not gonna even approach reading the whole of this fuckin game any more)

KidAm is now officially town stump’s favourite poster. <3

[Nancy Drew 39]

What do you want to hear, Nancy?

-S

Well, I would really like to understand why you’re so confident on Gamma, Italiano and W & P for starters because I’m really not sure I’m seeing it?

However I did like what they said about the NS thing so dunno.

Also I want to know why you think my not wanting to rush an elim after we just miselimed in 2 days into D1 is such a horrible idea?

I would also really love any other reads you’d care to share including M & R, 5uffering. Olaf, Starcrossed and I think you’re still tr REK or was that just Akarin head?

I'm now confident on any of them tbh. Italiano, if scum, was fed his claim from titus. I don't like that tho. Usually when I feel that way the claim is just real. If he is negative utility, why didn't he claim earlier? But I've seen some things that make me think he could flip either way.

Gamma has the most fakable claim in the list and it feels a little off. If titus did a 'no protectives' rule then he could feel very safe faking a claim like that. It is a claim gamma could fake. It is also a claim that could be true for scum. The even part is interesting. That feels... Nevermind. I'll save for mason pt. Gamma, on play, I still think veers town, and if scum I would expect to be scum with pink ball.

W&P -- sam feels very, very different from scum meta, but not in a performative, survivalistic way. Also role fits what I'm seeing in setup.

I didn't say not rushing was a horrible idea. I said you do you. I do think dragging this protracted day 1 into page 180 is not good for town. Because after noraa's rep and marci's rep I'm kinda... Demoralized frankly.

Morty I don't want to talk about today.

I don't like how 5uffering has played this game. I don't know what he flips, but I wouldn't mind not thinking about him anymore.

Olaf gives me spikes of paranoia. Pyro had some pretty townie content in places.

Starcrossed... I don't feel impartial toward but haven't felt any hard pings. If pooky is scum he's at the very least playing better than he did in tenet.

I do need more akarin content...

I am very busy this week. My reads feel... Muddled. Things have happened in this game that have made me question my continued presence on this site. I am staying in the game for you, for as long as I can.

I'm gonna be honest. I actually think I'd go pink ball here. But I don't like pushing pink ball, and I don't think you want pink ball, so I don't even feel the need to go into it. Last time I pushed pink ball I was wrong and it got ugly.

I would also do clidd I guess.

Olaf if scum would be a huge hit. Clidd is a fine compromise on a vt claim. Pink Ball is probably above rand scum even tho I don't trust myself to read him correctly.

I just wanna sheep your read, whatever it is.

Please let watson handle as much as he can so I can do irl work tho <3

-S

[Nancy Drew 39]

Toogeloo

Spoiler:

When was the last time you saw Toogeloo at the top of a readslist? When I read Toog's post, I feel like he is not just speaking from his heart, he's speaking from mine.

Toog isn't just town. He is the visionary thought leader we need. He's constantly down on himself, he's always doubting his reads and engagement, but his reads and play in the last booney game were actually excellent, the one thing he lacked really was conviction and hope.

What's also nice is, I think I can put Toog at the top of this readlist, and that will not change whether Titus kills him or not.

Well I for one believe in Toog. Look at that heart in the image I selected for him. Look at that cute dress. So town.

Fey

Spoiler:

I feel really good right now about Battle Mage and the Shadowslug hydra just because we all had the same take at the exact same time. It felt like all went 'huh' naturally together, and it made me giggle.

Oh, okay!!

So pure. So town. Fey is the obvious town we need, even if she's not the obvious town we deserve.

Putting aside the tonal stuff, which is VERY town, can we talk about the actual content? I feel like I vibe pretty much every take at the start of this iso. Why are people entertaining worlds where Fey is not town? Fey is town. Say it out loud: Fey is town. When you hear it in your ears you will know it in your heart.

Batsunami (Noraa + Morning Tweet)

Spoiler:

As the claimed mason that Nancy has not denied being mason, I don't really need to put Morning Tweet or Noraa anywhere particularly on this list. IF I was placing Noraa and Tweetie off play, they would be at the top of the list. The only reason I didn't put them at the top of the list is because I feel like Toog and Fey NEED it more. They need that energy.

But Noraa also needs energy. NORAA <3

TWEEETIE <3

I'm really enjoying being masons with you :3 :3 :3

P.S. Tweetie I can't believe you actually asked me about self-meta this game, I'm going to pretend you didn't

Dunnstral

Spoiler:

I've been trying to decide how much Dunn internalized being murdered by me on day 1 of Titus v. Alisae; he seemed to at one point indicate some lack of reaction to it/not seem to have thought too much about that game, and he argues his meta read % on me isn't as high as I think which is interesting. Still, I'm putting Dunn more here 'politically' I guess you could say. I don't think Dunn ever opens this game, as scum, pushing Penguin when the reason we killed him day 1 of Titus vs Alisae was for pushing/discrediting us early.

He did then move off us, and I have felt like he's unsure. I do feel like he's looking at other slots putting us in their poe, like Morty and Rick, and maybe having an internal conversation about my alignment. I think Dunn being paranoid of me this game makes sense and I think Dunn backing off and continuing to evaluate my slot makes sense. I guess you could say, I think his paranoia feels natural for someone that knows that Nancy always picks me for mason, so while there's a world where he is trying to fish whether I'm actually a mason or not by PoEing me, I think that world is extremely unlikely given my sense of how he would play after Titus v. Ali. I think there's another explanation for his continued paranoia despite, as Tenet demonstrated, him generally having a good readrate on me.

That and I just, really don't want to always spend every game thinking about Dunn's alignment so I'd like for him to be town and to have been correct and assertive about that read for once.

War and Peace (Ircher + samantha97)

Spoiler:

One of the reasons I'm writing this list. I'm not sure I actually feel more confident on this read than Akarin, but I'm positioning W&P above Akarin on this list rn more as an indication of what I think this gamestate needs more than anything else. I've recently seen Ircher 3p and I've seen Sam scum PR and I've seen Sam as '1-shot' TPR. This does not feel like Sam's scum PR game at all; she was very much 'in the shit' that game and aggressively obfuscating the gamestate with mech shenanigans. She has presence as scum, she is not a potato scum player. Now, I get why people might get thrown off, because she *also* has presence as something like a 1-shot suiciding TPR. But I've been thinking about that game, and I feel like being a TPR that dies if you get a guilty means she needed to be extremely proactive day 1 on her solve to feel like she was playing the game. She also was in a hood that game and had some additional information on the gamestate as a result. They are playing very passively here; at first, I thought that meant that they were just VT and didn't have the 'edge' on the gamestate as much. Seeing the gunsmith claim though, I think that fits what I think is going on with the setup really well, I think being a 'strong' TPR matches their overall level of presence in the sense that they were okay being in the wider PoE so they could avoid a nightkill over the masons.

I also don't think Sam was like, shitposty or moonlogicy almost at all as scum PR and so stuff like https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12608522 just feels like a heavy townspew.

Red Eye Knights (Aristophanes + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin)

Spoiler:

I don't think Akarin is actually under any pressure right now, otherwise I probably would have put this slot a lot higher.

In any case, Akarin is actually kinda a sweaty scum player and stuff like 942, 949, and 967 are tonally strongly town indicative.

Morty and Rick (mastina + Auro)

Spoiler:

I'm mostly putting Auro this far down the list because he clearly WANTS to be this far down the list, and I'm just assuming people won't notice that despite being in the middle of the list I'm actually calling him naked town here. I also want to make sure I get this read in early because I'm sure as soon as mastina says anything this game I'm going to have to downgrade them to an actual null and/or scumread.

Although Auro is certainly capable of shitposting as scum and it's usually safer to just like, ignore his first 20 posts in the game until he has something resembling content. The fact that he has no content this far into the game in the main game thread only means one thing. AND THAT'S THAT HE IS MECH SCUM. THAT'S RIGHT TITUS, BETCHA DIDN'T SEE THIS ONE COMING, I TOTALLY SCUMREAD AURO!!! HEAR THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:3

SaraharaS

Spoiler:

I feel like more of my read for this slot is like gambling or playing the stock market than based on the content of the slot, which is like.... fine?

But real talk, this is like, "would Titus use a 4th pick wild card pick on this" -- and I don't think so. Titus *loves* pts and *loves* people who will talk in pts and even for like "lol no one would think I'd pick a lurker" wifom moonlogic, I don't think she'd sacrifice her own enjoyment of the game simply to pick a wifom lurkerslot. I'd put this slot higher just for that reasoning but I do need to see enough content to actually get a better feel for it.

Gamma Emerald

Spoiler:

Generally speaking, there are very specific tonal things I can get from Gamma that usually will give me a very hard townlock on him if he is town. I haven't gotten those yet, which means I need to evaluate him by other means, but that doesn't mean he's scum at all. His presence and engagement with Saudade is probably the most interesting thing about the slot. In *most* circumstances, I would say that conversation, particularly Gamma's presence in the conversation, was *strongly* town indicative. The main problem here being that I know Gamma is actively trying to improve his scum game and so, probably moreso than any other player in the list, there's the plausible concern that if Titus was offering to coach him, he'd take her up on it. I also know that Saudade *loves* to get into prolonged 1v1s with scumbuddies so that's something to watch for. Still, *usually* Gamma flips town here. I just don't want to lose to another coached scum player like I fucked up my read of GX in Tenet, so I'm a little more cautious here than I usually would be with Gamma, even though my gut tells me he could go higher in this list. I actually moved him up and down like, three different times putting this together.

Olaf

Spoiler:

I can't believe Alisae is letting this obvious shellyc alt into the game. I mean could it be more obvious that Olaf is shellyc? No. No it couldn't.

Anyway, discussing my read on this slot hinges a lot on discussing ShellyC's meta, since this is clearly shellyc. But basically although this slot's play would like, almost always make me think town if it was anyone else, since this player has INFINITE SCUM RANGE I have to keep the snowman below null JUST TO BE SAFE.

Real talk though I wasn't particularly a fan of Pyro's readslist in 2326 and although this read is half joke I can actually see this slot flipping scum. I say that even though, obviously, yes a lot of Pyro's content was like... pretty good and this would obviously be a good slot to resolve with a gunsmith check or something because I'd feel really bad seeing a greenflip on olaf just because I don't like some of pyro's reads.

Starcrossed (Kanna + PookyTheMagicalBear)

Spoiler:

Honestly I don't know what to do with this slot. I townread Kanna's posts generally speaking but I think I'm like, intrinsically biased to townread anything Kanna says regardless of her alignment, and I'm actually a bit worried that "Mitsuha" is outposting Pooky for like, most the game it feels like? idk I feel like I *felt* this was townier but looking back through isos I was like, where the fuck is pooky lmao. I know he's posting, more than some single heads in the game even, but by pooky standards this is like Diet Pooky

Clidd

Spoiler:

I know I've actually played with clidd before, maybe in a newbie or something (I think he was nk'd?) but for some reason this feels like my first game with clidd. I'm not sure I know how to read him yet. The dedicated Saudade tunnel I think could swing either way.

The most AI thing for clidd for me right now is more the way he positioned himself on W&P, particularly Sam. I think the way they've played passively, and Sam did have some like, objectively weird posts that I think scum are very likely to grapple onto, would make Sam a tempting early push for clidd. I also haven't liked how through his Saudade tunnel he's been like, kinda putting me in his wider PoE even though I feel like I've been pretty supportive of the worlds in his solving outside of his Sam read. To the extent that I can remember the newbie game, which honestly I don't very well, this does feel different.

ItalianoVD

Spoiler:

My readrate on Italiano isn't that great yet. It's *possible* he would be interjecting himself into more conversations as scum and be more proactive, but I can also see him cooling off a bit. I don't really think he's outside his range one way or the other and Watson's early reads sometimes are pretty good so I'm inclined to keep this pretty low in the list. If he flipped town I wouldn't be surprised, but I think he could flip scum pretty easily.

5uffering

Spoiler:

First off, am I correct that 5uffering is a stealth alt that knows fey's (another stealth alt's) main? Wtf is up with that?

In terms of content, this is half political scumread half real I guess, in the sense that without more flips I play like nancy in suspecting the people who say they suspect me or aren't finding me town. (Shoshin says this is not correct and that scum are more likely to townread me, but Tenet demonstrated this is not the case and that people attempting to discredit me or keep me in the PoE very often are scum, particularly if they are scum and think they can foster the towncred to ignore it).

I do think the weird logic of 1065 to 1067 is more likely to come from town, but some of his other content just bothers me. I don't like the way he positions Noraa as hard town (putting the mason claim aside) but then says I'm scummy for the BM push, and I really don't like 1069 and the elimination order of "social" players. I don't see how someone puts me before Saudade in a flip order, I didn't like that from 5uffering and I also didn't like Pyro-slot agreeing with that.

Basically, I think the way 5uffering has been saying stuff is a little townie, but I think the stuff he is saying is scummy. In terms of the claim, I feel like he could easily just be scum trueclaiming? And if he is a scum vanilla cop, then that would explain why he is efforting as much as he is this game, probably moreso than if he was really a TPR? I've been trying to get a firm read agreement with Watson here since I don't think we want to hard dive this slot until we're both pretty much on the same page, along with our other mason buddies of course (adding that joke just for you 5uffering <3)

Saudade

Spoiler:

Unlike BM, I don't feel more confident on this slot flipping scum from the replace out. Saudade is kinda a snowflake and would replace out as either alignment here I think. If I had thoughts that he'd rep out as one replacement over another, I'd keep them to myself anyway, but I'm functionally ignoring it. This is a player I would absolutely have liked to have resolved mechanically during night 1 and that night 1 was skipped and I couldn't just hold out that hope means, idk, I'm half tempted to treat this protracted second half of day 1 like a dayvig so that we don't have to keep wondering whether Saudade would leverage toxicity for scum wincon (spoiler: I've modded him, and he would). Saudade *can* be scum here. Saudade could also be town. Watson thinks this is an above rand hit, and while we're still working out the exact ordering of our PoE I'm not sure I'm so much more confident on anything inside {5uffering, Italiano, clidd, Pooky, shellyc} that I would want to go on the over this right now. Mostly though I just think it's easier to think about the game without having to think about Saudade's alignment, and I don't mind giving 5uffering *a night* to see if scum kill him or something, or see if scum kill W&P which I think would make evaluating 5uffering easier.

I kinda doubt Nancy is interested in doing the shellyc alt today but I think we're willing to work with her on any of the bottom five. Watson I think is still catching up on some stuff but I think I'll post this here so he can see where I'm at.

-S

[Pink Ball]

One thing interests me is that literally no one is defending W & P. If W & P are scum, where are their buddies?

You can't keep using this as a valid argument against unflipped slots. Both Olaf and me defended Italiano and he was town. You said the same thing about REK and KRAZY WAS DEFENDING THEM.

[Nancy Drew 39]

One thing interests me is that literally no one is defending W & P. If W & P are scum, where are their buddies?

You can't keep using this as a valid argument against unflipped slots. Both Olaf and me defended Italiano and he was town. You said the same thing about REK and KRAZY WAS DEFENDING THEM.

Krazy also hard tr Toog and W & P. Since Krazy initially wanted you checked, it points to REK town. But my point obviously is that is if W & P are scum, scum are bussing or avoiding that wagon, so if they’re the actual strongman, then that would make sense. I will review the D1 vc, to see Krazy’s positioning around their slot.

I also think the fact that Toog is hard defending Olaf but Olaf isn’t doing the same and based off of Krazy trying to use Noraa’s reads to push Clidd and get her out of [his] head, I think Toog and W & P look like possible buddies. Have no clue yet who the last scum is but if we get 3/4, it shouldn’t be that hard imo.

[Nancy Drew 39]

If W & P flips scum, it probably does fit with my vt theory but maybe not since Titus may have more equitably divided up the roles than FL did in Pooky vs FL.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Toogeloo

Spoiler:

When was the last time you saw Toogeloo at the top of a readslist? When I read Toog's post, I feel like he is not just speaking from his heart, he's speaking from mine.

Toog isn't just town. He is the visionary thought leader we need. He's constantly down on himself, he's always doubting his reads and engagement, but his reads and play in the last booney game were actually excellent, the one thing he lacked really was conviction and hope.

What's also nice is, I think I can put Toog at the top of this readlist, and that will not change whether Titus kills him or not.

Well I for one believe in Toog. Look at that heart in the image I selected for him. Look at that cute dress. So town.

Fey

Spoiler:

I feel really good right now about Battle Mage and the Shadowslug hydra just because we all had the same take at the exact same time. It felt like all went 'huh' naturally together, and it made me giggle.

Oh, okay!!

So pure. So town. Fey is the obvious town we need, even if she's not the obvious town we deserve.

Putting aside the tonal stuff, which is VERY town, can we talk about the actual content? I feel like I vibe pretty much every take at the start of this iso. Why are people entertaining worlds where Fey is not town? Fey is town. Say it out loud: Fey is town. When you hear it in your ears you will know it in your heart.

Batsunami (Noraa + Morning Tweet)

Spoiler:

As the claimed mason that Nancy has not denied being mason, I don't really need to put Morning Tweet or Noraa anywhere particularly on this list. IF I was placing Noraa and Tweetie off play, they would be at the top of the list. The only reason I didn't put them at the top of the list is because I feel like Toog and Fey NEED it more. They need that energy.

But Noraa also needs energy. NORAA <3

TWEEETIE <3

I'm really enjoying being masons with you :3 :3 :3

P.S. Tweetie I can't believe you actually asked me about self-meta this game, I'm going to pretend you didn't

Dunnstral

Spoiler:

I've been trying to decide how much Dunn internalized being murdered by me on day 1 of Titus v. Alisae; he seemed to at one point indicate some lack of reaction to it/not seem to have thought too much about that game, and he argues his meta read % on me isn't as high as I think which is interesting. Still, I'm putting Dunn more here 'politically' I guess you could say. I don't think Dunn ever opens this game, as scum, pushing Penguin when the reason we killed him day 1 of Titus vs Alisae was for pushing/discrediting us early.

He did then move off us, and I have felt like he's unsure. I do feel like he's looking at other slots putting us in their poe, like Morty and Rick, and maybe having an internal conversation about my alignment. I think Dunn being paranoid of me this game makes sense and I think Dunn backing off and continuing to evaluate my slot makes sense. I guess you could say, I think his paranoia feels natural for someone that knows that Nancy always picks me for mason, so while there's a world where he is trying to fish whether I'm actually a mason or not by PoEing me, I think that world is extremely unlikely given my sense of how he would play after Titus v. Ali. I think there's another explanation for his continued paranoia despite, as Tenet demonstrated, him generally having a good readrate on me.

That and I just, really don't want to always spend every game thinking about Dunn's alignment so I'd like for him to be town and to have been correct and assertive about that read for once.

War and Peace (Ircher + samantha97)

Spoiler:

One of the reasons I'm writing this list. I'm not sure I actually feel more confident on this read than Akarin, but I'm positioning W&P above Akarin on this list rn more as an indication of what I think this gamestate needs more than anything else. I've recently seen Ircher 3p and I've seen Sam scum PR and I've seen Sam as '1-shot' TPR. This does not feel like Sam's scum PR game at all; she was very much 'in the shit' that game and aggressively obfuscating the gamestate with mech shenanigans. She has presence as scum, she is not a potato scum player. Now, I get why people might get thrown off, because she *also* has presence as something like a 1-shot suiciding TPR. But I've been thinking about that game, and I feel like being a TPR that dies if you get a guilty means she needed to be extremely proactive day 1 on her solve to feel like she was playing the game. She also was in a hood that game and had some additional information on the gamestate as a result. They are playing very passively here; at first, I thought that meant that they were just VT and didn't have the 'edge' on the gamestate as much. Seeing the gunsmith claim though, I think that fits what I think is going on with the setup really well, I think being a 'strong' TPR matches their overall level of presence in the sense that they were okay being in the wider PoE so they could avoid a nightkill over the masons.

I also don't think Sam was like, shitposty or moonlogicy almost at all as scum PR and so stuff like https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12608522 just feels like a heavy townspew.

Red Eye Knights (Aristophanes + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin)

Spoiler:

I don't think Akarin is actually under any pressure right now, otherwise I probably would have put this slot a lot higher.

In any case, Akarin is actually kinda a sweaty scum player and stuff like 942, 949, and 967 are tonally strongly town indicative.

Morty and Rick (mastina + Auro)

Spoiler:

I'm mostly putting Auro this far down the list because he clearly WANTS to be this far down the list, and I'm just assuming people won't notice that despite being in the middle of the list I'm actually calling him naked town here. I also want to make sure I get this read in early because I'm sure as soon as mastina says anything this game I'm going to have to downgrade them to an actual null and/or scumread.

Although Auro is certainly capable of shitposting as scum and it's usually safer to just like, ignore his first 20 posts in the game until he has something resembling content. The fact that he has no content this far into the game in the main game thread only means one thing. AND THAT'S THAT HE IS MECH SCUM. THAT'S RIGHT TITUS, BETCHA DIDN'T SEE THIS ONE COMING, I TOTALLY SCUMREAD AURO!!! HEAR THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:3

SaraharaS

Spoiler:

I feel like more of my read for this slot is like gambling or playing the stock market than based on the content of the slot, which is like.... fine?

But real talk, this is like, "would Titus use a 4th pick wild card pick on this" -- and I don't think so. Titus *loves* pts and *loves* people who will talk in pts and even for like "lol no one would think I'd pick a lurker" wifom moonlogic, I don't think she'd sacrifice her own enjoyment of the game simply to pick a wifom lurkerslot. I'd put this slot higher just for that reasoning but I do need to see enough content to actually get a better feel for it.

Gamma Emerald

Spoiler:

Generally speaking, there are very specific tonal things I can get from Gamma that usually will give me a very hard townlock on him if he is town. I haven't gotten those yet, which means I need to evaluate him by other means, but that doesn't mean he's scum at all. His presence and engagement with Saudade is probably the most interesting thing about the slot. In *most* circumstances, I would say that conversation, particularly Gamma's presence in the conversation, was *strongly* town indicative. The main problem here being that I know Gamma is actively trying to improve his scum game and so, probably moreso than any other player in the list, there's the plausible concern that if Titus was offering to coach him, he'd take her up on it. I also know that Saudade *loves* to get into prolonged 1v1s with scumbuddies so that's something to watch for. Still, *usually* Gamma flips town here. I just don't want to lose to another coached scum player like I fucked up my read of GX in Tenet, so I'm a little more cautious here than I usually would be with Gamma, even though my gut tells me he could go higher in this list. I actually moved him up and down like, three different times putting this together.

Olaf

Spoiler:

I can't believe Alisae is letting this obvious shellyc alt into the game. I mean could it be more obvious that Olaf is shellyc? No. No it couldn't.

Anyway, discussing my read on this slot hinges a lot on discussing ShellyC's meta, since this is clearly shellyc. But basically although this slot's play would like, almost always make me think town if it was anyone else, since this player has INFINITE SCUM RANGE I have to keep the snowman below null JUST TO BE SAFE.

Real talk though I wasn't particularly a fan of Pyro's readslist in 2326 and although this read is half joke I can actually see this slot flipping scum. I say that even though, obviously, yes a lot of Pyro's content was like... pretty good and this would obviously be a good slot to resolve with a gunsmith check or something because I'd feel really bad seeing a greenflip on olaf just because I don't like some of pyro's reads.

Starcrossed (Kanna + PookyTheMagicalBear)

Spoiler:

Honestly I don't know what to do with this slot. I townread Kanna's posts generally speaking but I think I'm like, intrinsically biased to townread anything Kanna says regardless of her alignment, and I'm actually a bit worried that "Mitsuha" is outposting Pooky for like, most the game it feels like? idk I feel like I *felt* this was townier but looking back through isos I was like, where the fuck is pooky lmao. I know he's posting, more than some single heads in the game even, but by pooky standards this is like Diet Pooky

Clidd

Spoiler:

I know I've actually played with clidd before, maybe in a newbie or something (I think he was nk'd?) but for some reason this feels like my first game with clidd. I'm not sure I know how to read him yet. The dedicated Saudade tunnel I think could swing either way.

The most AI thing for clidd for me right now is more the way he positioned himself on W&P, particularly Sam. I think the way they've played passively, and Sam did have some like, objectively weird posts that I think scum are very likely to grapple onto, would make Sam a tempting early push for clidd. I also haven't liked how through his Saudade tunnel he's been like, kinda putting me in his wider PoE even though I feel like I've been pretty supportive of the worlds in his solving outside of his Sam read. To the extent that I can remember the newbie game, which honestly I don't very well, this does feel different.

ItalianoVD

Spoiler:

My readrate on Italiano isn't that great yet. It's *possible* he would be interjecting himself into more conversations as scum and be more proactive, but I can also see him cooling off a bit. I don't really think he's outside his range one way or the other and Watson's early reads sometimes are pretty good so I'm inclined to keep this pretty low in the list. If he flipped town I wouldn't be surprised, but I think he could flip scum pretty easily.

5uffering

Spoiler:

First off, am I correct that 5uffering is a stealth alt that knows fey's (another stealth alt's) main? Wtf is up with that?

In terms of content, this is half political scumread half real I guess, in the sense that without more flips I play like nancy in suspecting the people who say they suspect me or aren't finding me town. (Shoshin says this is not correct and that scum are more likely to townread me, but Tenet demonstrated this is not the case and that people attempting to discredit me or keep me in the PoE very often are scum, particularly if they are scum and think they can foster the towncred to ignore it).

I do think the weird logic of 1065 to 1067 is more likely to come from town, but some of his other content just bothers me. I don't like the way he positions Noraa as hard town (putting the mason claim aside) but then says I'm scummy for the BM push, and I really don't like 1069 and the elimination order of "social" players. I don't see how someone puts me before Saudade in a flip order, I didn't like that from 5uffering and I also didn't like Pyro-slot agreeing with that.

Basically, I think the way 5uffering has been saying stuff is a little townie, but I think the stuff he is saying is scummy. In terms of the claim, I feel like he could easily just be scum trueclaiming? And if he is a scum vanilla cop, then that would explain why he is efforting as much as he is this game, probably moreso than if he was really a TPR? I've been trying to get a firm read agreement with Watson here since I don't think we want to hard dive this slot until we're both pretty much on the same page, along with our other mason buddies of course (adding that joke just for you 5uffering <3)

Saudade

Spoiler:

Unlike BM, I don't feel more confident on this slot flipping scum from the replace out. Saudade is kinda a snowflake and would replace out as either alignment here I think. If I had thoughts that he'd rep out as one replacement over another, I'd keep them to myself anyway, but I'm functionally ignoring it. This is a player I would absolutely have liked to have resolved mechanically during night 1 and that night 1 was skipped and I couldn't just hold out that hope means, idk, I'm half tempted to treat this protracted second half of day 1 like a dayvig so that we don't have to keep wondering whether Saudade would leverage toxicity for scum wincon (spoiler: I've modded him, and he would). Saudade *can* be scum here. Saudade could also be town. Watson thinks this is an above rand hit, and while we're still working out the exact ordering of our PoE I'm not sure I'm so much more confident on anything inside {5uffering, Italiano, clidd, Pooky, shellyc} that I would want to go on the over this right now. Mostly though I just think it's easier to think about the game without having to think about Saudade's alignment, and I don't mind giving 5uffering *a night* to see if scum kill him or something, or see if scum kill W&P which I think would make evaluating 5uffering easier.

I kinda doubt Nancy is interested in doing the shellyc alt today but I think we're willing to work with her on any of the bottom five. Watson I think is still catching up on some stuff but I think I'll post this here so he can see where I'm at.

-S

Krazy was fine with flipping PB/Saudade, Koba/5uffering, Clidd and Starcrossed.

[clidd]

It doesn't bother me if the elimination is on W/P today, although I won't be part of the wagon.

And I still think that Toog is scum, but I don't promise accuracy in this read.

[Nancy Drew 39]

VOTE COUNT 1 . 5

• War and Peace
  ------- 6 ( Pyro(11), Fey(47), Sherlock and Watson(20), Morty and Rick(6), Dunnstral(46), Starcrossed(5) )
  
  ItalianoVD
  ---------- 2 ( ItalianoVD(1), Gamma Emerald(5) )
  
  Starcrossed
  --------- 2 ( Rogue Squadron(1), War and Peace(1), Titus(1) )
  
  Dunnstral
  ----------- 2 ( Batsunami(31), Battle Mage(19) )
  
  Toogeloo
  ------------ 1 ( Charlie and Snoopy(1) )
  
  Sherlock and Watson
  - 0 ( No One )
  
  Batsunami
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Saudade
  ------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Gamma Emerald
  ------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Morty and Rick
  ------ 0 ( No One )
  
  SaraharaS
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Fey
  ----------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Rogue Squadron
  ------ 0 ( No One )
  
  Clidd
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Battle Mage
  --------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Pyro
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  
  Charlie and Snoopy
  -- 0 ( No One )
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ---------- 7 ( SaraharaS(0), Clidd(0), Toogeloo(7), Saudade(0), Nancy Drew 39(46) )

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to Flip
Deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-25 20:01:00)

VOTE COUNT 1 . 6

• War and Peace
  ------- 6 ( Pyro(11), Fey(47), Morty and Rick(6), Dunnstral(46), Starcrossed(5), Rogue Squadron(29) )
  F- 3
  
  
  ItalianoVD
  ---------- 2 ( ItalianoVD(1), Gamma Emerald(5) )
  F- 7
  
  
  Dunnstral
  ----------- 2 ( Batsunami(31), Battle Mage(19) )
  F- 7
  
  
  Starcrossed
  --------- 1 ( War and Peace(1), Titus(1) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Toogeloo
  ------------ 1 ( Charlie and Snoopy(1) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Charlie and Snoopy
  -- 1 ( clidd(1) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Rogue Squadron
  ------ 1 ( Sherlock and Watson(35) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Sherlock and Watson
  - 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Batsunami
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Saudade
  ------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Gamma Emerald
  ------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Morty and Rick
  ------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  SaraharaS
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Fey
  ----------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Clidd
  --------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Battle Mage
  --------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Pyro
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ---------- 7 ( SaraharaS(0), Toogeloo(7), Saudade(0), Nancy Drew 39(80) )

With 17 alive, it takes 9 to Flip
Deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-25 20:01:00)

This is really interesting. S & W were on W & P until they got to E -6, then they jumped on to REK/Akarin/RS. Hmmm . . .

[Nancy Drew 39]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=26976

Ircher ISO from Pooky vs FL

[Nancy Drew 39]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=12368

Toog ISO from Pooky v FL.