Mini Number 2195 | Brutalism | GAME OVER
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- Momrangal
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Ok, now I'm going to get into some VC thoughts. This is mostly just a speculation word vomit post because I haven't really had time to think about this until I'm writing this post, but let's see if this goes anywhere.
So my first assumption here is that I'm reading Datisi correctly. I will obviously reassess if I need to there, but I really have not seen any serious indication he is scum. He could be pocketing me of course, but thoughts and lines of questions feel transparent and genuine.final D1 vote count wrote:With 13 votes in play, it takes 7 to eliminate someone.
ItalianoVD (7): Reformed Toxic Player, Datisi, RLotus, VP Baltar, midwaybear, maxwell, ItalianoVD <--EXECUTED
maxwell(1): Green Crayons
Green Crayons (1): Andresvmb
midwaybear (1): Dunnstral
Elements (1): Battle Mage
VP Baltar (1): Duchess
RLotus (1): Elements
So working from that assumption, that leaves me with: RLotus, midwaybear, maxwell as possible scum on that wagon.
That's actually a very small pool to shoot in and now my gut is saying that if I think one of those people is scum, yeeting there has the highest chance to hit scum.
Midwaybear
Midway's vote is pretty unremarkable.
And Dunn perhaps isn't entirely wrong that midway's move toward that wagon in post 1362 rings as slightly scummy.
I never get a sense of why midway prefers Italiano or votes there. Going back to look through midway's ISO for mentions of Italiano...it's a lot of weak statements that don't come to a significant conclusion.In post 1362, midwaybear wrote:Why is RLotus being wagoned? Looking at the votecount, I could vote GC, Italiano, and RLotus if people sell me on it.
I think RTP has been quite townie this game, and, again, I don't know if "oppurtunisitc" means scum VPB.
Midway, can you explain for me again why you chose to vote Italiano over GC or Lotus at the end of D1?
RLotus
I mean, look, lord knows I had my issues with Lotus yesterday. We can now definitively say his push on Italiano was not accurate, and to me it hedged into bad faith territory at times.
I can say definitively from my perspective that Lotus only stopped this argument to pick up a very bad faith fight with me.
I largely backed off this fight with Lotus yesterday because I felt like it was not being productive and I didn't want it to go into toxic land because I was getting mad about people actually agreeing with his case...which to me was just an indication they were not reading it.
Anyhow, I do think it is possibly worth people reconsidering Lotus in light of the Italiano flip. I think rereading that fight and seeing Lotus argue bad faith against town is notable.
maxwell
I didn't really have a read on Harumi before, and maxwell has felt just OK content-wise to me. My gut hasn't really been strongly pinged either way, though as I'm rereading their ISO, I get the sense that I've probably just been shelving them because on the surface, they are saying things I generally agree with (Dunn has scummy behavior, Datisi is town, etc.)
maxwell's own progression on Italiano mirrors my own as well. Early on after replacing in, he says this:
Later, after maxwell says he can kind of see Datisi's point, he decides to change his vote under mild Datisi pressure and a looming deadline. That feels fairly natural to me.In post 1344, maxwell wrote:I'm not really sure why people were scumreading Italiano, his early play was a little awkward initially but I never felt there was a string case there. He made a few posts later that I liked.
I don't have strong conclusions here, but of the three on the wagon I listed above, I think maxwell comes across the least scummy in there progressions and interactions.
That being said, I definitely was not a fan of this post at the start of the day on a gut level.
It's factually inaccurate that no one asked him to claim, and it's like a "well, I guess he deserved it!" post. Dunn's doing the same thing of course. It's probably not alignment indicative, but my gut says those types of slams upon the yeeted could be more likely from scum. IDK, I'm rambling.In post 1745, maxwell wrote:
Just absolutely unbelievable. I guess no one actually asked him to claim, but I would have assumed he'd have claimed if he was something important, not selfhammering as a goddamn neapolitan. Killed any desire to reread the game on my part.In post 1733, Dunnstral wrote:That self hammer while being a neapolitan was kind of gross. Why not just claim?
VOTE: midwaybear
I don't think this is a bad vote but I'd also still do GC.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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What do you mean by Max/VPB pairing?In post 1975, Momrangal wrote:Mmmm... I might not be super sure about Max/VP pairing. Need to look more into harumi replacement- RLotus
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My assessment of his play makes sense now that he flipped PR, at least to me. He was playing more cautiously/passively than he normally does as town and it is likely due to that fact.In post 1976, VP Baltar wrote:I mean, look, lord knows I had my issues with Lotus yesterday. We can now definitively say his push on Italiano was not accurate, and to me it hedged into bad faith territory at times.- Momrangal
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I wanna hear more about this elementsIn post 1088, Elements wrote:if there somehow isn't scum in <RTP, GC, VB> mafia are having a field day- VP Baltar
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I don't disagree that PRs can certainly ping as scum, and I can't really speak to your personal experience playing with him.In post 1979, RLotus wrote:He was playing more cautiously/passively than he normally does as town and it is likely due to that fact.
My read on it is definitely colored by my own interaction with you, which I personally know was wrong as well. That's two giant pushes from you yesterday that were off base.
Maybe if I got a better sense where your head is at today, I might feel differently.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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- Momrangal
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- RLotus
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lolIn post 1982, VP Baltar wrote:I don't know if Italiano was necessarily playing cautiously given he self-hammered as a cop. but anyhow.- RLotus
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Andre is obvtown imo
I still don't see scum in VPB and Datisi after reconsidering. After reading a couple VPB games, it seems like he has a tendency to try to discredit people pushing on him as town. At first I thought it was scummy, but I think that is town behavior for him.
I still have this lingering gut paranoia about him regardless. Maybe he could be a deepwolf here? I dunno I guess I can't shake the feeling I got day 1. Anyway, he's in my townblock.
I'm still happy with Duchess/Cookie Monster town for Duchess' push on VPB.
It's curious that BM/Momrangel is seemingly getting a pass still from BM's entrance. Need more from momrangal to get a better idea of them.
Elements keeps doing this thing where when he is prompted to or is pushed on, he has a townish feeling series of posts and then promptly drifts back into null. Hard to read for me.
Basically I'm quite directionless atm. Dunn is a fine elim for that vote on midway which a couple others have mentioned.- Momrangal
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- Momrangal
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Mini Theme 2165, Open 802, Mini 2180In post 1987, VP Baltar wrote:
which games were those?In post 1985, RLotus wrote:After reading a couple VPB games,- RLotus
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Yeah that's fine I just need more to make a stance on youIn post 1989, Momrangal wrote:Also, considering I just repped a couple days ago, I don't think my activity is too terrible- VP Baltar
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who are the hard avenues I should be attacking? How successful have these easy avenues been for me given their ease?In post 1988, Momrangal wrote:he's attacking seemingly easier avenues
I'm not sure what you're referring to about RTP specifically.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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Probably a fair assessment in those mini themes. I don't like people when they make half baked cases against me as town. I'm a very fact oriented person, and I think people playing mafia are maybe less so. You're not wrong though that I'm biased toward seeing scum in those scenarios.In post 1990, RLotus wrote:
Mini Theme 2165, Open 802, Mini 2180In post 1987, VP Baltar wrote:
which games were those?In post 1985, RLotus wrote:After reading a couple VPB games,
Open 802 was me just kicking ass though MAAAAN.YOUR AD HERE- VP Baltar
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- Momrangal
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I'm not sure but I recalled (and correctly) that you were one of the few who defended me on rep in. You also immediately tagged on the amished tell there and completely ignored it here. I get the sense that you could make a read of it, successfully did it there but isn't paying mind to it here.
I don't like your attacks on Dunn and duchess, and feel lukewarm on your read on lotus.
Regarding Koba, you appealed to them and asked them to help you out, in figuring out if you were simply tunneled here but I didn't see a response to their answer- Momrangal
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i went to pour myself a glass of apple juice before sitting down at my laptop, but after i did that, i realized the juice got spoiled
i am now very sad and will have to do this apple-juice-less
that's... overly simplified.In post 1971, maxwell wrote:
What is the crux of your case, exactly? As far as I can tell, it's that Dunn didn't vote Italiano and made a useless vote on midwaybear near the end of the day. Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't really townread Dunn, but that's not...especially convincing?In post 1962, Datisi wrote:
i wasn't arguing as if the "lol why am i still top wagon" is the crux of my dunn case anyway.In post 1959, midwaybear wrote:His vote on me is fine for the reasons he gave, but it is more of an interpretation thing that I don't want to get in an argument about. I hope he will see that I am town soon enough.
i am not actually sure what the above quote means? like yeah it's an interpretation thing and you agreed w me, no?
- dunn had a bad case of lurk day one
- kept ignoring questions thrown his way
- had a post around mid day one where it seemed like he's town on italiano, but made absolutely no attempts of genuinely convincing anyone
- lurking up to deadline (i believe he got prodded around that time? not sure)
- once italiano wagon was basically a guarantee (i.e. he was literally implying he was going to hamer himself), popped in with a kinda weak midway vote
- the above looks bad when you notice that italiano flipped town, because it implies that dunn presented a townread, didn't try convincing anyone on it, and once it was guaranteed the wagon was going through, he voted somewhere else, in a very "scum staying off misyeet wagon for townpoints" fashion
- returns day two with like barely any reads, isn't showing much will to live, and is seriously questioning why he's top wagon
- also i really dislike his baltar shade(?)
like is this 100% slam dunk scumcase? no, i can see a few universes out there where this flips town. but like. individually, it's the best i got right now.I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”~M- Datisi
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at which cracks in this pot are you looking at here?In post 1973, VP Baltar wrote:
This may not be entirely crackpot.In post 1709, Reformed Toxic Player wrote:In post 1708, DkKoba wrote:k since yall prob gonna try to hammer this while im at work - ill just out my theory now ~ i will ellaborate on this tomorrow if im alive but if somehow italiano flips town, im looking at a crackpot theory of andres, maxwell, GC.
but the way italiano formed their reads list suggests they arent flipping town so im not too pressed about it, i just would rather do this in case im nightkilled and all.
(does that even make sense? you know what i mean)I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”~M - Datisi
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