Titus v Nancy Drew (Game Over)

[DkKoba]

VOTE: dunnstral

im like sleep deprived and my brain is pointing towards this as the most likely pick

[Dunnstral]

???

[DkKoba]

i think u are mafia based on PoE.

[War and Peace]

W+P feels like it’s stuck in stasis because scum don’t want to defend the slot but also don’t wanna push on it and the people who are town/see it are already on there so it’s not gonna get any momentum...

...? aren't we -2 right now

what exactly is momentum to you, -1?

nancy has to sign off on a lynch anyway, so whether we're -2 -5 or -1 it is effectively the same

I can't tell if you are trying to gaslight or what

[War and Peace]

i think u are mafia based on PoE.

[Toogeloo]

Need Nancy to make a decision. Stop being wishy washy.

[Toogeloo]

Can you tell me more about your PoE particularly Tweetie? I guess any of the slots you don’t have asterisks on would be helpful.

Nope. PoE is simply scum could be any of these slots since I don't townread them above a null stance. Asterisks are simply people I haven't paid any attention to and probably wasn't even aware of their existence in the game at that point.

Since that post, I've liked Starcrossed more, but probably because they are actually reading me correctly. I'd move them up to town-leans.

Why is S & W your #1 tr?

Why do people keep asking me this? There are 4 people in that grouping, and those were

leans

at the time of posting it, at which point I'd read even less of the game then as I have now. If I recall correctly, I put them there because they were town reading me instead of setting me up for mislim, and they were vocal. But as I've mentioned before, a name in a list of names at the top =/= #1, and again for emphasis, I hadn't read much of any of the game and had at best on leans on slots, which is just barely higher than null.

[Toogeloo]

Misinterpretation of my posts has been highly evident today.

[SaraharaS]

if i do this can you tell us if you're ok with the W&P wagon Nancy. i'm feeling demotivated with the way things are stretching out/waiting for your ok with things in exactly the way hop was saying he thought he'd feel as non mason town in this setup. things are really dragging right now and waiting another four days is another four bites into the dwindling reserves of my enthusiasm as i await the approaching winter crop failures. stretching everything out because we're waiting for approval gives me real 'Tsar eating well during a famine' vibes

Dunn don't push the mason theater too hard or titus might think we're not actually masons

-S

Not only am I masons with Fey, but they are perhaps the most enjoyable mason partner I've ever had and I am thoroughly enjoying their presence in this game!

-S

less likely scum with Dunn and Fey. don't feel it's likely for scum to make this kind of jokes about their actual partners this early + fits with my reads

Pretty sure Pyro is a Krazy alt

I'm Hectic btw

-S

(more examples below of this)
i don't think scum!S&W makes so many comments about who Pyro really is if they're scum together. there's a lot of them

wait, in the hating everything are you saying you also hated mandalorian season 1, or did you not see that because disney+ doesn't have enough content to justify its price

p.s. there's a chance that pyro is actually more town than the literal masons this game lmao

note the pyro buddying for later

Pyro are you roleplaying as Ircher

commenting on pyro being another player again (i missed a couple later in the thread, there's also the (censored name) hydra one)

Jesus... I'm not reading 25 pages that came in less than 18 hours. Someone catch me up to speed.

We're masons with Pyro, Fey, and Noraaing Tweet

-S

Toogeloo

Spoiler:

When was the last time you saw Toogeloo at the top of a readslist? When I read Toog's post, I feel like he is not just speaking from his heart, he's speaking from mine.

Toog isn't just town. He is the visionary thought leader we need. He's constantly down on himself, he's always doubting his reads and engagement, but his reads and play in the last booney game were actually excellent, the one thing he lacked really was conviction and hope.

What's also nice is, I think I can put Toog at the top of this readlist, and that will not change whether Titus kills him or not.

Well I for one believe in Toog. Look at that heart in the image I selected for him. Look at that cute dress. So town.

Fey

Spoiler:

I feel really good right now about Battle Mage and the Shadowslug hydra just because we all had the same take at the exact same time. It felt like all went 'huh' naturally together, and it made me giggle.

Oh, okay!!

So pure. So town. Fey is the obvious town we need, even if she's not the obvious town we deserve.

Putting aside the tonal stuff, which is VERY town, can we talk about the actual content? I feel like I vibe pretty much every take at the start of this iso. Why are people entertaining worlds where Fey is not town? Fey is town. Say it out loud: Fey is town. When you hear it in your ears you will know it in your heart.

Batsunami (Noraa + Morning Tweet)

Spoiler:

As the claimed mason that Nancy has not denied being mason, I don't really need to put Morning Tweet or Noraa anywhere particularly on this list. IF I was placing Noraa and Tweetie off play, they would be at the top of the list. The only reason I didn't put them at the top of the list is because I feel like Toog and Fey NEED it more. They need that energy.

But Noraa also needs energy. NORAA <3

TWEEETIE <3

I'm really enjoying being masons with you :3 :3 :3

P.S. Tweetie I can't believe you actually asked me about self-meta this game, I'm going to pretend you didn't

Dunnstral

Spoiler:

I've been trying to decide how much Dunn internalized being murdered by me on day 1 of Titus v. Alisae; he seemed to at one point indicate some lack of reaction to it/not seem to have thought too much about that game, and he argues his meta read % on me isn't as high as I think which is interesting. Still, I'm putting Dunn more here 'politically' I guess you could say. I don't think Dunn ever opens this game, as scum, pushing Penguin when the reason we killed him day 1 of Titus vs Alisae was for pushing/discrediting us early.

He did then move off us, and I have felt like he's unsure. I do feel like he's looking at other slots putting us in their poe, like Morty and Rick, and maybe having an internal conversation about my alignment. I think Dunn being paranoid of me this game makes sense and I think Dunn backing off and continuing to evaluate my slot makes sense. I guess you could say, I think his paranoia feels natural for someone that knows that Nancy always picks me for mason, so while there's a world where he is trying to fish whether I'm actually a mason or not by PoEing me, I think that world is extremely unlikely given my sense of how he would play after Titus v. Ali. I think there's another explanation for his continued paranoia despite, as Tenet demonstrated, him generally having a good readrate on me.

That and I just, really don't want to always spend every game thinking about Dunn's alignment so I'd like for him to be town and to have been correct and assertive about that read for once.

War and Peace (Ircher + samantha97)

Spoiler:

One of the reasons I'm writing this list. I'm not sure I actually feel more confident on this read than Akarin, but I'm positioning W&P above Akarin on this list rn more as an indication of what I think this gamestate needs more than anything else. I've recently seen Ircher 3p and I've seen Sam scum PR and I've seen Sam as '1-shot' TPR. This does not feel like Sam's scum PR game at all; she was very much 'in the shit' that game and aggressively obfuscating the gamestate with mech shenanigans. She has presence as scum, she is not a potato scum player. Now, I get why people might get thrown off, because she *also* has presence as something like a 1-shot suiciding TPR. But I've been thinking about that game, and I feel like being a TPR that dies if you get a guilty means she needed to be extremely proactive day 1 on her solve to feel like she was playing the game. She also was in a hood that game and had some additional information on the gamestate as a result. They are playing very passively here; at first, I thought that meant that they were just VT and didn't have the 'edge' on the gamestate as much. Seeing the gunsmith claim though, I think that fits what I think is going on with the setup really well, I think being a 'strong' TPR matches their overall level of presence in the sense that they were okay being in the wider PoE so they could avoid a nightkill over the masons.

I also don't think Sam was like, shitposty or moonlogicy almost at all as scum PR and so stuff like https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12608522 just feels like a heavy townspew.

Red Eye Knights (Aristophanes + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin)

Spoiler:

I don't think Akarin is actually under any pressure right now, otherwise I probably would have put this slot a lot higher.

In any case, Akarin is actually kinda a sweaty scum player and stuff like 942, 949, and 967 are tonally strongly town indicative.

Morty and Rick (mastina + Auro)

Spoiler:

I'm mostly putting Auro this far down the list because he clearly WANTS to be this far down the list, and I'm just assuming people won't notice that despite being in the middle of the list I'm actually calling him naked town here. I also want to make sure I get this read in early because I'm sure as soon as mastina says anything this game I'm going to have to downgrade them to an actual null and/or scumread.

Although Auro is certainly capable of shitposting as scum and it's usually safer to just like, ignore his first 20 posts in the game until he has something resembling content. The fact that he has no content this far into the game in the main game thread only means one thing. AND THAT'S THAT HE IS MECH SCUM. THAT'S RIGHT TITUS, BETCHA DIDN'T SEE THIS ONE COMING, I TOTALLY SCUMREAD AURO!!! HEAR THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:3

SaraharaS

Spoiler:

I feel like more of my read for this slot is like gambling or playing the stock market than based on the content of the slot, which is like.... fine?

But real talk, this is like, "would Titus use a 4th pick wild card pick on this" -- and I don't think so. Titus *loves* pts and *loves* people who will talk in pts and even for like "lol no one would think I'd pick a lurker" wifom moonlogic, I don't think she'd sacrifice her own enjoyment of the game simply to pick a wifom lurkerslot. I'd put this slot higher just for that reasoning but I do need to see enough content to actually get a better feel for it.

Gamma Emerald

Spoiler:

Generally speaking, there are very specific tonal things I can get from Gamma that usually will give me a very hard townlock on him if he is town. I haven't gotten those yet, which means I need to evaluate him by other means, but that doesn't mean he's scum at all. His presence and engagement with Saudade is probably the most interesting thing about the slot. In *most* circumstances, I would say that conversation, particularly Gamma's presence in the conversation, was *strongly* town indicative. The main problem here being that I know Gamma is actively trying to improve his scum game and so, probably moreso than any other player in the list, there's the plausible concern that if Titus was offering to coach him, he'd take her up on it. I also know that Saudade *loves* to get into prolonged 1v1s with scumbuddies so that's something to watch for. Still, *usually* Gamma flips town here. I just don't want to lose to another coached scum player like I fucked up my read of GX in Tenet, so I'm a little more cautious here than I usually would be with Gamma, even though my gut tells me he could go higher in this list. I actually moved him up and down like, three different times putting this together.

Olaf

Spoiler:

I can't believe Alisae is letting this obvious shellyc alt into the game. I mean could it be more obvious that Olaf is shellyc? No. No it couldn't.

Anyway, discussing my read on this slot hinges a lot on discussing ShellyC's meta, since this is clearly shellyc. But basically although this slot's play would like, almost always make me think town if it was anyone else, since this player has INFINITE SCUM RANGE I have to keep the snowman below null JUST TO BE SAFE.

Real talk though I wasn't particularly a fan of Pyro's readslist in 2326 and although this read is half joke I can actually see this slot flipping scum. I say that even though, obviously, yes a lot of Pyro's content was like... pretty good and this would obviously be a good slot to resolve with a gunsmith check or something because I'd feel really bad seeing a greenflip on olaf just because I don't like some of pyro's reads.

Starcrossed (Kanna + PookyTheMagicalBear)

Spoiler:

Honestly I don't know what to do with this slot. I townread Kanna's posts generally speaking but I think I'm like, intrinsically biased to townread anything Kanna says regardless of her alignment, and I'm actually a bit worried that "Mitsuha" is outposting Pooky for like, most the game it feels like? idk I feel like I *felt* this was townier but looking back through isos I was like, where the fuck is pooky lmao. I know he's posting, more than some single heads in the game even, but by pooky standards this is like Diet Pooky

Clidd

Spoiler:

I know I've actually played with clidd before, maybe in a newbie or something (I think he was nk'd?) but for some reason this feels like my first game with clidd. I'm not sure I know how to read him yet. The dedicated Saudade tunnel I think could swing either way.

The most AI thing for clidd for me right now is more the way he positioned himself on W&P, particularly Sam. I think the way they've played passively, and Sam did have some like, objectively weird posts that I think scum are very likely to grapple onto, would make Sam a tempting early push for clidd. I also haven't liked how through his Saudade tunnel he's been like, kinda putting me in his wider PoE even though I feel like I've been pretty supportive of the worlds in his solving outside of his Sam read. To the extent that I can remember the newbie game, which honestly I don't very well, this does feel different.

ItalianoVD

Spoiler:

My readrate on Italiano isn't that great yet. It's *possible* he would be interjecting himself into more conversations as scum and be more proactive, but I can also see him cooling off a bit. I don't really think he's outside his range one way or the other and Watson's early reads sometimes are pretty good so I'm inclined to keep this pretty low in the list. If he flipped town I wouldn't be surprised, but I think he could flip scum pretty easily.

5uffering

Spoiler:

First off, am I correct that 5uffering is a stealth alt that knows fey's (another stealth alt's) main? Wtf is up with that?

In terms of content, this is half political scumread half real I guess, in the sense that without more flips I play like nancy in suspecting the people who say they suspect me or aren't finding me town. (Shoshin says this is not correct and that scum are more likely to townread me, but Tenet demonstrated this is not the case and that people attempting to discredit me or keep me in the PoE very often are scum, particularly if they are scum and think they can foster the towncred to ignore it).

I do think the weird logic of 1065 to 1067 is more likely to come from town, but some of his other content just bothers me. I don't like the way he positions Noraa as hard town (putting the mason claim aside) but then says I'm scummy for the BM push, and I really don't like 1069 and the elimination order of "social" players. I don't see how someone puts me before Saudade in a flip order, I didn't like that from 5uffering and I also didn't like Pyro-slot agreeing with that.

Basically, I think the way 5uffering has been saying stuff is a little townie, but I think the stuff he is saying is scummy. In terms of the claim, I feel like he could easily just be scum trueclaiming? And if he is a scum vanilla cop, then that would explain why he is efforting as much as he is this game, probably moreso than if he was really a TPR? I've been trying to get a firm read agreement with Watson here since I don't think we want to hard dive this slot until we're both pretty much on the same page, along with our other mason buddies of course (adding that joke just for you 5uffering <3)

Saudade

Spoiler:

Unlike BM, I don't feel more confident on this slot flipping scum from the replace out. Saudade is kinda a snowflake and would replace out as either alignment here I think. If I had thoughts that he'd rep out as one replacement over another, I'd keep them to myself anyway, but I'm functionally ignoring it. This is a player I would absolutely have liked to have resolved mechanically during night 1 and that night 1 was skipped and I couldn't just hold out that hope means, idk, I'm half tempted to treat this protracted second half of day 1 like a dayvig so that we don't have to keep wondering whether Saudade would leverage toxicity for scum wincon (spoiler: I've modded him, and he would). Saudade *can* be scum here. Saudade could also be town. Watson thinks this is an above rand hit, and while we're still working out the exact ordering of our PoE I'm not sure I'm so much more confident on anything inside {5uffering, Italiano, clidd, Pooky, shellyc} that I would want to go on the over this right now. Mostly though I just think it's easier to think about the game without having to think about Saudade's alignment, and I don't mind giving 5uffering *a night* to see if scum kill him or something, or see if scum kill W&P which I think would make evaluating 5uffering easier.

I kinda doubt Nancy is interested in doing the shellyc alt today but I think we're willing to work with her on any of the bottom five. Watson I think is still catching up on some stuff but I think I'll post this here so he can see where I'm at.

-S

- kind of weird that Clidd is at the top here but S&W doesn't ever joke about 'being masons with Clidd' despite doing it about a whole lot of other people (Pyro, Fey, Dunn, Morning...) all of whom i TR. there's some pushing of Clidd later that i didn't quote that feels a little like he didn't fully expect the push to go through. maybe + associatives with clidd?
- more of the stuff on olaf's alt stuff & on 5uffering/Fey all of which feel less likely to be scum aligned with S&W

I don't like how uneasy olaf's posting on this page is making me...

Fey stop being scummy plz

-S

despite his buddying feeling towards Pyro earlier seems to start to SR olaf when they sub in and the progression on the slot doesn't feel like the way scum would switch on a partner. feels more like scum buddying a town then not realizing who the new account is and changing their read. the progression feels like scum on town

tbh if all 8(!) of my preflips are correct then Olaf looks bad

VOTE: olaf
too much conflict between noraa-slot and nancy

nancy where are you on this?

two more on the olaf thing above

fuck you and I mean this outside of my game persona

dude

less likely to be scum with 5uffering especially in light on the later replace out

What do you want to hear, Nancy?

-S

Well, I would really like to understand why you’re so confident on Gamma, Italiano and W & P for starters because I’m really not sure I’m seeing it?

However I did like what they said about the NS thing so dunno.

Also I want to know why you think my not wanting to rush an elim after we just miselimed in 2 days into D1 is such a horrible idea?

I would also really love any other reads you’d care to share including M & R, 5uffering. Olaf, Starcrossed and I think you’re still tr REK or was that just Akarin head?

I'm now confident on any of them tbh. Italiano, if scum, was fed his claim from titus. I don't like that tho. Usually when I feel that way the claim is just real. If he is negative utility, why didn't he claim earlier? But I've seen some things that make me think he could flip either way.

Gamma has the most fakable claim in the list and it feels a little off. If titus did a 'no protectives' rule then he could feel very safe faking a claim like that. It is a claim gamma could fake. It is also a claim that could be true for scum. The even part is interesting. That feels... Nevermind. I'll save for mason pt. Gamma, on play, I still think veers town, and if scum I would expect to be scum with pink ball.

W&P -- sam feels very, very different from scum meta, but not in a performative, survivalistic way. Also role fits what I'm seeing in setup.

I didn't say not rushing was a horrible idea. I said you do you. I do think dragging this protracted day 1 into page 180 is not good for town. Because after noraa's rep and marci's rep I'm kinda... Demoralized frankly.

Morty I don't want to talk about today.

I don't like how 5uffering has played this game. I don't know what he flips, but I wouldn't mind not thinking about him anymore.

Olaf gives me spikes of paranoia. Pyro had some pretty townie content in places.

Starcrossed... I don't feel impartial toward but haven't felt any hard pings. If pooky is scum he's at the very least playing better than he did in tenet.

I do need more akarin content...

I am very busy this week. My reads feel... Muddled. Things have happened in this game that have made me question my continued presence on this site. I am staying in the game for you, for as long as I can.

I'm gonna be honest. I actually think I'd go pink ball here. But I don't like pushing pink ball, and I don't think you want pink ball, so I don't even feel the need to go into it. Last time I pushed pink ball I was wrong and it got ugly.

I would also do clidd I guess.

Olaf if scum would be a huge hit. Clidd is a fine compromise on a vt claim. Pink Ball is probably above rand scum even tho I don't trust myself to read him correctly.

I just wanna sheep your read, whatever it is.

Please let watson handle as much as he can so I can do irl work tho <3

-S

- the stuff around Gamma feels kinda eh after the stuff on Italiano
- the 'mean' comment about 5uffering is less likely to be aligned
- more of the olaf shading
- still doesn't super feel like he's pushing clidd seriously
- the shift on starcrossed feels opportunistically lowered which feels unlikely to do with a partner

I actually feel good about this, I think Italiano has done a very good job faking a townie tone, but I think this is our hit

we can let 5uffering get replaced I guess, can't believe that's the same slot that had Marci...

actually thinking about the double replace I don't know, but I think off setup spec Italiano looks very likely to be scum

again less likely aligned with 5uffering

Counterpicks for vanilla Cop:

Starcrossed (Kanna + PookyTheMagicalBear)
Red Eye Knights (Aristophanes + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin) Rogue Squadron (Lunar Martian + Akarin)
Olaf

Outside of mastina, these are the vanilla cop picks that have strong reasoning

Right now I'm saying GS on REK, since that seems more powerful and REK is a slot that is better resolved with a powerful mech check.

Starcrossed and Olaf are viable counter-picks to mastina, but I think a vanilla cop check on mastina is stronger. I would certainly entertain arguments that Starcrossed or Olaf are good vanilla cop checks, but I think Olaf is better left to being sorted by dayplay as a viable nightkill target if town, and Starcrossed just doesn't seem as good to me as mastina, basically. At that point there are subjective factors in play. I am welcome to arguments that Starcrossed is a better vanilla cop check than mastina, but I think almost everything outside of that is suboptimal for a variety of dayplay reasons.

given TRs on Starcrossed/Olaf i can see REK being a mafia goon (specifically goon) based on this post

so based on this

more likely
Clidd
REK
Gamma/now KA marginally

less likely
5uffering (strongest) - DkKoba now
Olaf (2nd strongest)
Starcrossed
Fey
Dunn

all of which i already had. no vibes either way on their interactions with W&P so this didn't really sway my views very much

[clidd]

Sara is a potential candidate for deepwolf.

But I'm not interested in voting her today.

[SaraharaS]

no u

[clidd]

[War and Peace]

given TRs on Starcrossed/Olaf i can see REK being a mafia goon (specifically goon) based on this post

what part of REK being confirmed town isn't clicking with you people

[clidd]

I lost interest.

UNVOTE: Toogeloo

*Theory*

I don't think

{Fey, Sara, Olaf and Dk}

is a set 100% town, otherwise the game would be much more easier.

Dk

has been more towny recently and I believe that

Olaf

's metadive on me was in good faith/from an uninformed perspective trying to assess me.

Fey

seemed to have a hidden suspicion about Sherlock and the way she positioned herself before the night didn’t strike me as a scum partner.

What by PoE would denounce

Sara

as being the scum in this group.

[clidd]

It may seem like mental gymnastics, but that's what the gamestate tells me. I mean, such a strong town set would imply a winning PoE with ease and I have never seen this scenario in an entire year of mafia.

But, as I said, she is not a slot that I see myself voting for today. Her participation is still valid for reconsideration or consolidation of the impression.

[olaf]

what do you think would be easier about the game if that group was all town clidd?
i really like sarah's assessment on the sherlock's change of view on my slot after i replaced in
was trying to buddy my predecessor and then gave up on that and took a different stance when i came in
POOR olaf

[olaf]

???

possible crumb to some kind of questioning role?

[clidd]

Because we would have a strong town base and considering the combined competence of the group in terms of townhunting/scumhunting, the game would flow more easily to identify who is scum.

Having in mind the way opinions are occurring now, I don't think it's all about town arguing with town and having a hard time getting rid of scum while scum is coasting.

There is a well-positioned scum that is making things difficult and is not being pushed.

[clidd]

E

[clidd]

It's vague to say things like that, I know.

But my guess is that this scum is in the group I mentioned.

[clidd]

And as far as I can speculate, it is likely Sara, as I identify more reasons to think that the others are town than she.

It's not like she's scumposting, of course, she's towny, but looking towny doesn't always mean the player is town, which is why I think she can be a deepwolf.

[clidd]

Or maybe I'm distracting from a correct game solution.

I don't know.. I'm testing to see if something from the approach that I decided to adopt here bears any fruit.

[Titus]

My money is on REK being green scum.

[Starcrossed]

E

i agree

~mitsuha

[Starcrossed]

It's not like she's scumposting, of course, she's towny, but looking towny doesn't always mean the player is town, which is why I think she can be a deepwolf.

this kind of feeling i resonate with strongly

~mitsuha