Newbie 2057: Mars! - End!

[six pomegranate seeds]

Ok im here.

Seeds what do you think of creative?
Andante what do you think of creative?

Im much more confident with a Creative vote here than I am a skitter vote.

My brain a little mushy right now to be honest. Arguing too much lol.

Creative was my second sus after skitter. They had some quotes that ping town specifically them being rude to me and calling me bad at making reads but maybe this isn't a good reason to TR someone.

If there is some world that I am reading the game backwards and SAMCO is somehow mafia that is unfortunate, but it feels scummy from Creative that they reversed their town read on me after I came out and gave actual content and retroactively called my slot's d1 sus only after learning I had them scum leaning. It also feels scummy that Creative is pushing SAMCO because I'm reading SAMCO town.

My initial gut response to you is that I'd be willing to vote creative but I think I should review logs a little more before doing so. There are a lot of points where they express thoughts like oh no i thought he was hammered which you can either TR or write off as LAMIST where I am uncertain which way to fall. I also don't think skitter and Creative make sense as THE scum pair because they literally gave the same reasoning for voting him and openly voted together. Creative is also the only non-TR I have who is on the miselim wagon on d1.

So in conclusion, I think creative is not a bad vote here. I want to review the logs more though.

[six pomegranate seeds]

I am not confirmed scum because of 1 misread? Like how does that confirm I am scum

Also we can afford 1 more miselim because it would take it to 3 v 2, so sure eliminate me, because I am town, how much are you willing to bet I am scum, you getting Lynched next day?, My reads being used to eliminate you and your scum buddy, because you seem so sure I am scum for a humble vanilla townie who has no extra info, if you are that good at reads idk why we haven't eliminated the mafia by now, or are you mafia and you know I am town, so you're too afraid to vote me because when I flip town you'll be the next one to go. How sure are you that I am scum, are you sure enough to take a 100:1 odds paying $100? or are you not sure as if you were sure i was confirmed scum you wouldn't need to ask if we could afford a miselim now would you?

I'm just isoing creative and a bunch of his stuff pings town to me. There's another post where he asks if there is an incriminating tracker or FN result. Idk I feel like I rarely ask about stuff like that as mafia. Him swapping his read on me can just be fear from being sussed.

His saying i can't swap votes or I'll die I can't get a read on, I normally TR more not giving a crap about dying but he seems like a guy who would try hard as mafia. I feel like my intellectual inertia could just let me swing onto creative but its a less satisfying SR than skitter. Creative has played pretty well if they are mafia.

I do think he was looking for a little too much in the early game reads making pooky/wheme non associated reads and he is over exlaining things at points make him seem scummy. I also really don't like his SR on SAMCO. But idk this game takes a lot of endurance to be honest with you I could go in circles all night.

I feel like if Creative is somehow town maybe that would make Kazyan a deep wolf. He said he would play conciliatory in the beginning which seems kinda a maf thing to say. Town normally seems more abrassive. He seems a little conciliatory in the way he said oh wait I didn't notice that town slip wow I was not picking up on town vibes no wonder you are afraid of me. But I dont want to SR people for being nice and I thought Kazyan's reactions to Creative's somewhat reach of reads early game pinged town. Maybe there is exactly one mafia between creative and kazyan just from the way kazyan has pushed creative throughout the game. If creative were to flip blue maybe I'd reconsider my Kazyan read.

Also at some point wheme you should tell us about your read on creative. I honestly TR you for going creative is town to creative is not so town just from one quote. You should eventually explain.

Idk what to make of the guy in Meagen's spot to be honest with you. Part of me just wants to townbin him off of a feeling that mafia wouldn't afk and screw their partner.

Thinking it over it may just be a good idea to flip creative now if only because he seems like he will tunnel SAMCO in ELO and I think I'm sort of just at the point where if SAMCO is scum I'm going to lose the game.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Idk I just have this sinking feeling in my stomach that Creative would flip town and town will be screwed. I don't think town gets two mafia back to back in ELO. Idk maybe I need to sleep on this.

[six pomegranate seeds]

I think I really just have to comit to SAMCO TR as the north star. I honestly think he townslipped saying he forgot about the game because he didn't have night actions and so wasn''t doing anything for 3 days, he played so hella aggressive at points and had no fear of being voted just wanted his susses voted next. Also asking if we have another miselim at the beginning of the day. I think that these kind of town slip tactics are really lame to pull out as mafia, and I just want to believe he is town for these things. I'll go crazy if I dont just listen to my heart and TR SAMCO.

I'll just leave it at that for tonight unless other people post or I'll drive myself crazy.

[six pomegranate seeds]

that's fair - sorry i just got a massive headache and think i'm gonna lie down for a bit - but i will circle back when i can, i think it's important to address all of your points but dont' think i can atm
out of curiosity, what's your homesite?

Its mafia.gg

[Kazyan]

These chained late-night solving-attempt posts are incredibly towny. I can see the depth of thought in your mindset in considering all of the outcomes.

[Kazyan]

If y'all are still going to scumread Seeds for this, I officially don't understand what scumminess even is

[Kazyan]

I feel like if Creative is somehow town maybe that would make Kazyan a deep wolf. He said he would play conciliatory in the beginning which seems kinda a maf thing to say. Town normally seems more abrassive. He seems a little conciliatory in the way he said oh wait I didn't notice that town slip wow I was not picking up on town vibes no wonder you are afraid of me. But I dont want to SR people for being nice and I thought Kazyan's reactions to Creative's somewhat reach of reads early game pinged town. Maybe there is exactly one mafia between creative and kazyan just from the way kazyan has pushed creative throughout the game. If creative were to flip blue maybe I'd reconsider my Kazyan read.

By the way, you're not the only one who tears their hair out when trying to get into my head. It's not like I'm an enigma, but I've never been an easy person to intuitively understand, and I think that translates onto a forum as well.

If Creative somehow flipped town, it would be downright irresponsible

not

to immediately scumread me at that point, since I've been the one yelling about him the most.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Just random thoughts in my head as I go to sleep. I think a lot of the game hinges on #167. This is the one moment when SAMCRO is either a really misguided villager lashing out at the world in anger or he is open wolfing. Skitter SRs him for this post. I've been rereading it over and over. It's such a strong play for mafia to play dumb to excuse their antitown behaviors. But Samcro wears the misguided town hat so well over the course of the game. The "I forgot the game was going on. Do we have another miselim? You are so scum I'm laughing." Would this guy seriously just openly out as mafia just to get Pooky voted? There was that phrase that creative brings up - basically too scummy to be scum. Can this seriously all be an act from SAMCRO? If I entertain the world where SAMCRO is the mafia then Creatie and Skitter will seem town. The partner in that situation might be kazyan for the reaon that wheme is the first to TR SAMCRO when no one else was willing to which does not seem like a mafia move to make, and would align with Skitter's read that T3 nk is not consitent with wheme as a mafia. Then Kazyan votes creative after pushing the one maf one town world in SAMCRO / Creative, then plays up me calling the town slip on SAMCRO's part to insulate his partner and get the pocket on me. Then calls me easy town for late night gamesolving.

Imo this theory as of now seems crackpot but I want to right it down so I remember I thought of it and can refer back in case I am really confused later.

My gut instinct going to sleep is that Kazyan just seems like a town who can see that I am town here. I'm not sure who I want to vote right now tbh with you. I dont like that both kazyan and Wheme and Creative all TR skitter at least a little more than I do. Doesn't sit well with me. Feels like a mafia move to TR skitter here regardless of skitter's alignment. I'll just go to sleep with an open mind and think about it tomorrow. Good night.

[Andante]

ok, seeds's comments about the n1 kill, and the fact I feel like there has been many feels weird to me, almost like he's mad griff picked them, idk.


Note about Skitter, the post at #406, I felt was pretty good, like, I'm not entirely sure a scum!skitter would have worded it that way, one thing I'm not sure about on skitter is their post #149, to me 147 felt super scummy, then skitter TRed it?? idk, I'm no longer feeling a skitter elim here tbh which then makes me go, ok, who do I want here...

#375 creative went "If sam is scum" after saying sam was their strongest sr??

I'm thinking an elim in kaz/creative tbh

[Andante]

Ok im here.

Seeds what do you think of creative?
Andante what do you think of creative?

Im much more confident with a Creative vote here than I am a skitter vote.

Creative doesn't strike me as particularly towny, but they have also gotten a lot of heat here and pressure changes people so idk

[CreativeName]

ok, seeds's comments about the n1 kill, and the fact I feel like there has been many feels weird to me, almost like he's mad griff picked them, idk.


Note about Skitter, the post at #406, I felt was pretty good, like, I'm not entirely sure a scum!skitter would have worded it that way, one thing I'm not sure about on skitter is their post #149, to me 147 felt super scummy, then skitter TRed it?? idk, I'm no longer feeling a skitter elim here tbh which then makes me go, ok, who do I want here...

#375 creative went "If sam is scum" after saying sam was their strongest sr??

I'm thinking an elim in kaz/creative tbh

I have sam at a 70-80% SR, because you can't actually guarantee someone is a particular alignment usually until their death

I dislike sam having me at 100000% scum, mainly because I know if he is town and he does elim me it will blow up in his face and town will lose because he is way too overconfident to be a town player

[CreativeName]

also it's strange how he has gone MIA for a day now?

[CreativeName]

Just random thoughts in my head as I go to sleep. I think a lot of the game hinges on #167. This is the one moment when SAMCRO is either a really misguided villager lashing out at the world in anger or he is open wolfing. Skitter SRs him for this post. I've been rereading it over and over. It's such a strong play for mafia to play dumb to excuse their antitown behaviors. But Samcro wears the misguided town hat so well over the course of the game. The "I forgot the game was going on. Do we have another miselim? You are so scum I'm laughing." Would this guy seriously just openly out as mafia just to get Pooky voted? There was that phrase that creative brings up - basically too scummy to be scum. Can this seriously all be an act from SAMCRO? If I entertain the world where SAMCRO is the mafia then Creatie and Skitter will seem town. The partner in that situation might be kazyan for the reaon that wheme is the first to TR SAMCRO when no one else was willing to which does not seem like a mafia move to make, and would align with Skitter's read that T3 nk is not consitent with wheme as a mafia. Then Kazyan votes creative after pushing the one maf one town world in SAMCRO / Creative, then plays up me calling the town slip on SAMCRO's part to insulate his partner and get the pocket on me. Then calls me easy town for late night gamesolving.

Imo this theory as of now seems crackpot but I want to right it down so I remember I thought of it and can refer back in case I am really confused later.

My gut instinct going to sleep is that Kazyan just seems like a town who can see that I am town here. I'm not sure who I want to vote right now tbh with you. I dont like that both kazyan and Wheme and Creative all TR skitter at least a little more than I do. Doesn't sit well with me. Feels like a mafia move to TR skitter here regardless of skitter's alignment. I'll just go to sleep with an open mind and think about it tomorrow. Good night.

Surely if he is a true newbie like you say he is then he'll not realise he is basically openly broadcasting he is scum, usually newbie towns don't actually act scummy because they're inactive or they're letting the more experienced people solve it for them

[CreativeName]

I also think a seeds elim is a good option today, it feels like he came in and realised his partner was open wolfing and needed to protect him, plus more people have SRed him than SAMCRO

VOTE: Seeds

[six pomegranate seeds]

I'm awake now. Creative found my d1 counterpart scummy for going along with whatever the others were doing and now he is doing exactly the same. "Less people find SAMCO scummy than seeds so now I will switch to seeds." Lol. And you called me bad at scum hunting. Once again, I point out to you Creative that you thought my d1 counterpart was town when we first met. You seem quite opportunistic right now, or just mad salty.

Whatever, this is my first game. I don't really care if you guys find me suspicious, today is my last day off so I'll take some time to think things over and then see where I want to vote.

As for me commenting about night kills, the things that dead people say are meaningful and I take them into account when formulating reads. I am not angry about any sort of night kill, but I like to honor thoughts that the dead had.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Just random thoughts in my head as I go to sleep. I think a lot of the game hinges on #167. This is the one moment when SAMCRO is either a really misguided villager lashing out at the world in anger or he is open wolfing. Skitter SRs him for this post. I've been rereading it over and over. It's such a strong play for mafia to play dumb to excuse their antitown behaviors. But Samcro wears the misguided town hat so well over the course of the game. The "I forgot the game was going on. Do we have another miselim? You are so scum I'm laughing." Would this guy seriously just openly out as mafia just to get Pooky voted? There was that phrase that creative brings up - basically too scummy to be scum. Can this seriously all be an act from SAMCRO? If I entertain the world where SAMCRO is the mafia then Creatie and Skitter will seem town. The partner in that situation might be kazyan for the reaon that wheme is the first to TR SAMCRO when no one else was willing to which does not seem like a mafia move to make, and would align with Skitter's read that T3 nk is not consitent with wheme as a mafia. Then Kazyan votes creative after pushing the one maf one town world in SAMCRO / Creative, then plays up me calling the town slip on SAMCRO's part to insulate his partner and get the pocket on me. Then calls me easy town for late night gamesolving.

Imo this theory as of now seems crackpot but I want to right it down so I remember I thought of it and can refer back in case I am really confused later.

My gut instinct going to sleep is that Kazyan just seems like a town who can see that I am town here. I'm not sure who I want to vote right now tbh with you. I dont like that both kazyan and Wheme and Creative all TR skitter at least a little more than I do. Doesn't sit well with me. Feels like a mafia move to TR skitter here regardless of skitter's alignment. I'll just go to sleep with an open mind and think about it tomorrow. Good night.

Surely if he is a true newbie like you say he is then he'll not realise he is basically openly broadcasting he is scum, usually newbie towns don't actually act scummy because they're inactive or they're letting the more experienced people solve it for them

No I've seen newbie town have very strong feelings in their first game. They just typically can't really explain things. The first game I played with my cousin for example she super hard SR me and was convinced I was mafia. She just wasn't really able to explain why.

I've not seen a newbie mafia come out guns blazing calling other players claimed mafia on day 1 and then tell the town to just get creative -> skitter when hie flips blue. That's not even confidence it's just having conviction in a gut read as a town in most cases. The way you keep putting percentages on things is actually kind of suspicious 70-80% lol. You SR them you null them or you TR them. There's no 70-80%.

[six pomegranate seeds]

ok, seeds's comments about the n1 kill, and the fact I feel like there has been many feels weird to me, almost like he's mad griff picked them, idk.


Note about Skitter, the post at #406, I felt was pretty good, like, I'm not entirely sure a scum!skitter would have worded it that way, one thing I'm not sure about on skitter is their post #149, to me 147 felt super scummy, then skitter TRed it?? idk, I'm no longer feeling a skitter elim here tbh which then makes me go, ok, who do I want here...

#375 creative went "If sam is scum" after saying sam was their strongest sr??

I'm thinking an elim in kaz/creative tbh

It's hard for me to TR skitter for #406, does reducing everything I said to some other random player who it appears lightly shaded her in lylo and brought up her signature seem town to you? I do agree that #147 seems scummy in the same way SAMCO seems scummy for voting pooky to prove a point, but I honestly think scum would be more subtle in how they end up on a miselim bw rather than openly announcing "I am joining the bw in a super scummy way everyone!"

It is somewhat annoying SAMCO doesn't show up to talk at all.

[six pomegranate seeds]

I also think a seeds elim is a good option today, it feels like he came in and realised his partner was open wolfing and needed to protect him, plus more people have SRed him than SAMCRO

VOTE: Seeds

I love how you can't even entertain that I am just TRing SAMCRO as a town person, and the way you only entertain vote options who have equal votes to people voting you is also just so sheeplike. Self-preservation voting is really not townie.

[skitter30]

Maybe this is really how you play. I have no way of knowing. But I do think honoring the dead is a valid way of playing mafia. I kill people who sus me all the time. If there was a fight between you and T3 today I would have thought T3 was super town. Why does a newer player pick a fight with one of the strongest players in the lobby unless it's lylo.

I also think it's really lazy for you to just bin me in with some player I dont know from a past game. I put out a number of reasons to suspect you and I spent a good number of hours today reading the game carefully. You show up and in a few minutes your all of the sudden coninced I am mafia. And asking me for what i think your scumgame looks like feels like trying to set me up for an omgus, I obviously don't know what your scumgame looks like I have no idea who you are.

If you want to have a conversation with me tell me why you are sus of SAMCO. From what I read you think his bravado is fake. I seriously doubt a new player would play suicidal like that, exactly as T3 stated on d1.

(I'm bored at work but i might have to leave before i get to everything, i will return and finish later tonight if that's the case)

Ok a few things:
- i'm not being lazy by 'binning you with some player from a past game'. I'm calling out a specific pattern that features specific elements that's happened at least three times before, and i've only seen it come from scum. I've never seen it come from town, and you fit the pattern to a T. I'm not sure why you're handwaving this away
- i also object to you reducing the scumread to omgus, when i laid out a very specific reason for why i think you're scum
- i could make an assumption of how you viewed my scumgame given how you interacted with me, but i asked you to doublecheck my assumption before i rolled out mu conclusion - if you had answered something contrary/different, i would have rethought the read, but you didnt, so. And you clearly did have some sort of preconceived notion, even if you'd now like to say otherwise
- i think i already explained why i was sus of samcro: the bravado ans aggression eod1 looked fake to me. I also said today that he made a few posts that i liked, and that i was rethinking the read, a fact that you're kinda ignoring

[skitter30]

I don't think T3 is a level 1 night kill. I've played enough mafia to know that people's vote pools don't tend to radically change day to day. It is absolutely optimal to remove players who have you in their votepool as mafia, players have a hard time changing their minds on reads as you can see from the SAMCO/creative fight playing out. If you can take out players who will push you next day and make you the center of attention, you absolutely benefit as a mafia. Implying that killing someone who suspected you is low level mafia play and therefore incompatable with your perception of my idea of your mafia play is simply not true.

I admit that my reads can simply be wrong on SAMCO and perhaps I am reading too much into you pushing what seems to me like ez town.

I think i basically addressed 415 in my last post

T3 is a bizarre kill. Its nkt inherently a level1 kill, but saying i did it because he sus'd me would be a very level1 reason for me to make that kill, and i'm objecting to the notion that i would have made that kill for that reason, i would have looked for a pr or killed like kazyen (or something), it wouldnt have been t3. Like killing t3 for that reason basically posits that i'd be scared or worried about getting into a thing with him the next day, ans i am most assuredly not, but you seem to be indicating that i am

[skitter30]

I kinda dislike how you lay out several reasons to tr creative in 426 (similar to my own) but come to the conclusion you still want to flip him

[skitter30]

Btw you can link posts using post-tags, and it would make it a little easier to go back and see ehat you're talking abt

[skitter30]

I'm not sure about on skitter is their post #149, to me 147 felt super scummy, then skitter TRed it?? i

It was worded in a way that i felt would be a little weird coming from scum

[six pomegranate seeds]

Thought it would be interesting to count up the post count so I'll put it here this is D2 post count for all players i've never played forum before just by post count it kind of makes me eye kazyan a little more than I was before. Sucks he's the only guy TRing me lol.

Skitter 49
Kazyan 23
CreativeName 47
Samcro 15
Where 30
6pom 46
Andante 20