Warehouse 13: The Mafia Game (Game Over)

[Spiffeh]

@Math Prism Tammy I see your responses and appreciate them, I will address them tomorrow as work should be a little slower. (Although I'm getting the first dose of the vaccine so that is dependent on how I feel)

[Prism]

I'll work through the wall when I get home but no

And "less likely" does not mean "off the list" he will get his turn on the grill dw

[Prism]

but no*

[Prism]

but np

I hate myself for burning two posts on this

[Bell]

My range with Titus Bell is I tend to scumread her a bit too much and her being my sister is that I know she is going through shit. So like I scumread her but I don’t trust it unless other do. Like her meta is shifting and she is a wildcard. I don’t know if she’s trying to replicate Titus moonlogic here as scum but town Titus was way better when she was working with Mastina and Nero. It’s like here she can’t be arsed to do the think she does well. You should remember that game Bell she was pretty much town hero. There’s no trying here to work with anyone. It’s off.

A cogent point. I still think scum are pushing her wagon though. The only one really interested in diverting it is me and to a lesser extent you through the alternative Sircakez recommendation. It's simply difficult to read Titus given the factors I'm aware of.

Pedit: I mean, one of the goals of scum is to have their posting look good on the surface. /:

@Tammy, That's a lot of questions. My meaning was that your read does not appear to have progressed. I am aware of your tendency to waffle.

[Tammy]

My range with Titus Bell is I tend to scumread her a bit too much and her being my sister is that I know she is going through shit. So like I scumread her but I don’t trust it unless other do. Like her meta is shifting and she is a wildcard. I don’t know if she’s trying to replicate Titus moonlogic here as scum but town Titus was way better when she was working with Mastina and Nero. It’s like here she can’t be arsed to do the think she does well. You should remember that game Bell she was pretty much town hero. There’s no trying here to work with anyone. It’s off.

I just think of her as scum being a bit more aggressive. I don't know how outdated this is but even when she replaced into FGO, she was pushing against reads and at least fighting even though she was up against a strong town that had pretty accurate reads.

[Tammy]

@Tammy, That's a lot of questions. My meaning was that your read does not appear to have progressed. I am aware of your tendency to waffle.

It hasn't. I just reread through all of my thoughts on Titus day one and our interactions, and I agree with day one me on the things that are problematic. But she hasn't been doing the little things that I've mostly associated with scum her (or even town her), so I'm just at yeah day one was problematic does that make her scum?

Mostly I'm looking at the lack of aggressiveness, some of the interaction with math blade, the "town is losing this one, and I'm a vt" early claim, and just not seeming to care about being bronzed here that make me hesitate.

[MathBlade]

My range with Titus Bell is I tend to scumread her a bit too much and her being my sister is that I know she is going through shit. So like I scumread her but I don’t trust it unless other do. Like her meta is shifting and she is a wildcard. I don’t know if she’s trying to replicate Titus moonlogic here as scum but town Titus was way better when she was working with Mastina and Nero. It’s like here she can’t be arsed to do the think she does well. You should remember that game Bell she was pretty much town hero. There’s no trying here to work with anyone. It’s off.

A cogent point. I still think scum are pushing her wagon though. The only one really interested in diverting it is me and to a lesser extent you through the alternative Sircakez recommendation. It's simply difficult to read Titus given the factors I'm aware of.

Pedit: I mean, one of the goals of scum is to have their posting look good on the surface. /:

@Tammy, That's a lot of questions. My meaning was that your read does not appear to have progressed. I am aware of your tendency to waffle.

It’s quite possible scum are manipulating this both ways or both are scum.

My point was ideally we would have had this song and dance day two. Titus’s denial of this day two when this was her logic for Pooky is off. Scum may be pushing her wagon but maybe a planned bus or a poor faith wagon. However combining this with D1 there almost certainly has to be scum in d1 wagon on Cakez whether it’s Cakez himself or others an all town counter wagon to scum D1 is almost never a thing. So by forcing the game into a narrower PoE scum’s cards have to be laid out like chess.

I think I caught Titus D1 when I shrunk her PoE I think she was trying to miselim Pooky. I just need people to double check me and if I am wrong tell me why I am. Or if I am right hooray.

[MathBlade]

To be clear I do not have a parity/wagon cop but it creates the same results to use what is extremely likely scum exist then people have to take stances or bussing sometimes happens unless it’s unavoidable.

[Dunnstral]

Did I miss a pr claim?

[MathBlade]

Did I miss a pr claim?

Nope you didn’t.

I am saying my effects and suggestion act as one if people understand there is likely at least one scum in my listed PoE.

[borkjerfkin]

To be honest I was like 100% sure you and DGB were scum buddies after 3141 and I was all set to call that out today had DGB flipped scum.

And here you are basically pushing me anyway. Like I get having a contingent read on another slot if a slot flips a certain way but why even bring this up with your current demeanor on me? Are you actually serious about giving me a fair shake or is this just for show?

However, in 3141 you seem to be scum reading me to the point that MY actions there "heavily implied DGB scum"

I thought your interactions there implied potential S-S relationship between the two of you. Had DGB flipped scum I would've been more convinced of that considering the other person in that three way relationship (me) is definitely town. This isn't dissimilar from the read on the situation you're stating above.

I feel I have engaged you a fair amount this game so I don't really buy the whole "talk to me about it" shtick.

It's not a 'schitck' and painting it that way is, frankly, annoying. I'm trying to reassess and part of that means trying to have a good faith engagement despite our previous interactions.
And I'd appreciate if you don't shut that down - you don't get to say on one hand "I don't buy your reachout schtick" and then on the other "I'm tired of bork et al. scumreading me" - I don't find that behavior scummy, because I get where it potentially comes from as a town player scorned, but it basically is going to make me want to disengage which you really shouldn't want if you're town.

If you want my three top reads going into today, it'd probably still have been in the (Titus/Dunn/Battle Mage) range but really out of the living players, Bell, Prism, Pookyasterisk are the only people I'm really not reconsidering my town stances on today.

[borkjerfkin]

I hate you’re not trying to rally others or sort through it openly.

Definitely not at the point where I'm comfortable rallying anybody to anything.

It's a sound idea in that it paints the D1 wagons in a potentially different light to some people in that some people are assuming that it's a definite counterwagon on town. There's not a whole lot deeper to that premise.
The hard pard is figuring out if Cakez is scum or not.

[borkjerfkin]

I think a quick read through my posts Day 2 would tell you that DGB was always my second choice and I had no problem with its lim.

I'm already reassessing on this considering DGB's flip, but I'll go back to this. I hadn't internalized that stance of yours.

[Titus]

Right now, given my lack of time today, the bad facts against me, it seems proper to accept my miselimination. I needed to be right on my DGB theory. I wasn't.

Of course that locks in Pooky scum, which Math will drown out with accusations that Pooky is a mason. No one else (besides Math) makes sense as a defining swing vote to send SirCakez over mastina. Math reads more like a townbeard but the refusal to even engage me in good faith on the mastina wagon or Pooky (admitting he might be wrong) is just demoralizing. Either a) I'm dealing with a wrong town with an infinite amount of time on his hands to spew bullshit and not listen to anyone which makes it ten times harder to get scum like Battle Mage eliminated who we both agree might be scum or b) is scum spamming preventing any sort of investigation to try and force three town miseliminations. It's like that guy pushing a rock up a hill. I get a glimmer of hope that I'll get a rational conversation when I try, but then the rock slips into Pooky is a mason, my reads are the one true reads and you must agree to be town and only my discussions are valid. We have a strongish townblock that mostly consists of my townreads so I can accept not pushing this rock anymore once I get out my final reads which I pray will be tomorrow. I am seeing nothing after my 3pm errand barring an explosion at work.

I might get to it tonight but that depends on if I find the energy.

[Tammy]

I hate you’re not trying to rally others or sort through it openly.

Definitely not at the point where I'm comfortable rallying anybody to anything.

It's a sound idea in that it paints the D1 wagons in a potentially different light to some people in that some people are assuming that it's a definite counterwagon on town. There's not a whole lot deeper to that premise.
The hard pard is figuring out if Cakez is scum or not.

I’m glad you posted this. Your previous response kinda freaked me out because I couldn’t remember you suspecting cakez at all and was just combing through your iso to clarify that.

I was going to ask but I didn’t want to get yelled at.

[Tammy]

Right now, given my lack of time today, the bad facts against me, it seems proper to accept my miselimination. I needed to be right on my DGB theory. I wasn't.

Of course that locks in Pooky scum, which Math will drown out with accusations that Pooky is a mason. No one else (besides Math) makes sense as a defining swing vote to send SirCakez over mastina. Math reads more like a townbeard but the refusal to even engage me in good faith on the mastina wagon or Pooky (admitting he might be wrong) is just demoralizing. Either a) I'm dealing with a wrong town with an infinite amount of time on his hands to spew bullshit and not listen to anyone which makes it ten times harder to get scum like Battle Mage eliminated who we both agree might be scum or b) is scum spamming preventing any sort of investigation to try and force three town miseliminations. It's like that guy pushing a rock up a hill. I get a glimmer of hope that I'll get a rational conversation when I try, but then the rock slips into Pooky is a mason, my reads are the one true reads and you must agree to be town and only my discussions are valid. We have a strongish townblock that mostly consists of my townreads so I can accept not pushing this rock anymore once I get out my final reads which I pray will be tomorrow. I am seeing nothing after my 3pm errand barring an explosion at work.

I might get to it tonight but that depends on if I find the energy.

Sisyphus

I think Pooky has made some good posts that I’ve liked, bu pt The is he or isn’t he a mason is frustrating. Because the main reason most people that I’m aware of aren’t even evaluating him is because welp he might be a mason.

[Dunnstral]

I haven't considered that at all, I just did not think he was scum

[Prism]

Bork, you were very explicit yesterday that you targeted sangres with something N1. Is there anything we should talk about with regards to N2, or should it wait?

FWIW my Pooky townread is independent but I can't even remember why off the top of my head, something about not latching onto 2181 people Day 1 and his Cakez walls Day 2.

[Tammy]

I haven't considered that at all, I just did not think he was scum

Can you talk about why you town read him independent of that?

[Tammy]

Bork, you were very explicit yesterday that you targeted sangres with something N1. Is there anything we should talk about with regards to N2, or should it wait?

FWIW my Pooky townread is independent but I can't even remember why off the top of my head, something about not latching onto 2181 people Day 1 and his Cakez walls Day 2.

I forgot about the cakez walls when it wasn’t the big push there.

My brain is really foggy today. I should probably go to sleep.

[Titus]

Reads by play

2. Tammy* - Relatively solid town (this would be where I'd look for a paranoia read but unlikely). Tammy tends to be a solid town when town and I see that here. Someone could argue her treatment of me is scum looking to pocket but it feels more like compassion.
3. borkjerfkin - Moderate town - I did have some conflict with him earlier, but I like his responses in hindsight. He doesn't seem overly defenses or OMGUSy.
4. SirCakez - Weaker town - I've been fooled by Cakez before recently but nothing he's done feels particularly scummy. His attempt to try and push Pooky I feel particularly endearing.
8. Bell - Moderate town - The frustration with Math feels pretty genuine here. He's been a pretty vocal presence and the opposite generally of when I last caught him as scum. He got so demoralized after being caught for the wrong reasons. Scum!Bell tends to telegraph his pushes. The fact that Bell hasn't jumped on me despite having tried to push me in the past and I'm in a weaker position here. This makes me feel relatively good about calling Bell town.
9. Spiffeh - GTMH town - Spiffeh hasn't been supermemorable but I'm not holding that against him. His pushes haven't come across as fake. So this read is more of a lack of scummy than a presence of town. Given most slots are town, that's GMTH town.
10. GreyICE** - Weak scum - He feels overly hostile and his interactions leave a sour taste in my mouth. Particularly the defining a chainsaw discussion. It felt more like a gotcha than a reasonable attempt at discussion. I can't really get a feel for what he's trying to accomplish.
11. PookyTheMagicalBear - Moderate scum - This would be a strong scumread but his Cakez wall felt like there might be a chance at town there. I don't see Pooky actually hunting but resting on his charm. His passing the buck to LLD for his Cakez vote was particularly bad. Doubly so if Cakez is town.
12. Titus - Demotivated town
13. MathBlade - Frustrating null. I want to call him town, but his play is so anti-town in trying to control everything.
15. Prism - Solid town. I like his overall pushes, mastina tried to shade him. I don't feel him trying to sort me is coming from a negative place even though he doesn't understand my thought pattern can be erratic as town. Scum would just write me off as scum rather than trying to solve my thought processes.
16. Dunnstral - Weak town - I see Dunn as a little more passive than I'd like but we all can't be cooks in the kitchen.
17. Battle Mage -Strong scum - He claims no solid townreads by day 3. He's been a joke impression. His trajectory on mastina is horrible. He has no pushes besides me today and that's his first. He was almost certainly bussing mastina.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Titus can you actually tell me why my wall of Cake suspicions is wrong?

[Prism]

17. Battle Mage -Strong scum - He claims no solid townreads by day 3. He's been a joke impression.

His trajectory on mastina is horrible.

He has no pushes besides me today and that's his first. He was almost certainly bussing mastina.

I'm also very curious as to the bolded.

So the main reason I've wanted to revisit BM has been because of his brief swapoff from mastina, and he was in that nice wagon grey area where scum have to choose to get on/off since mastina was in real danger.

Also like BM's recent posts.

even Battle Mage's more recent posts make me feel better about him.

Why?

Battle Mage's recent posts have been "nice". He's been acting nice to players, working with them, acting as a mediator, being a team player, calling fights TvT, and generally being moderate: not committing to anything hard, saying preferences and stances but without passion and conviction behind them.

Does any of this jive with your experience of BM as town?

Because it flies in the face of the abrasive BM that I know, while being a perfect fit for the Battle Mage I've seen as scum pull this exact strategy to get some cheap towncred.

thanks for being so kind to me. funny enough i dont get a lot of personal joy out of being shitted on every fking game - me staying out of the aggro isn't AI, it's because it's stressful and doesn't make games enjoyable.

personal feeling aside - you know this is a gross take.

VOTE: mastina

that's my final move.

This is an extremely good post. Someone is outplaying me for sure, and it might be Battle_Mage, but reading this slot I don't see any clear reason to scumread it beyond the timing of the vote. Everything else feels town to me, progressions on Dunn, Cakez, etc. pretty clear.

At the time of his final swap back to mastina, Dunnstral was at 6 while mastina was at 4.

[Titus]

@Pooky, I feel it is but I need to take a more detailed approach and refind it. Right now I'm doing my VCA though.

@Prism, There's more than just the sheer numbers involved. I'll go more into this but BM's vote comes between and 1950 and 1991. There's two factors I'll look to check on in my VCA regarding this vote. Namely, did my jump kill the Dunn wagon and did Bell jump off prior to BM's move? If my vote moved first, then the Dunn miselimination is dead and the mastina wagon is gaining momentum. I'll look at his ISO to answer your question but my memory of him jumping on just to catch the bus. The votes according to my memory of the day play support a Battle Mage bus.