Titus v Nancy Drew (Game Over)

[Starcrossed]

We are a one shot vig and we killed Sherlock + Watson on Night 1


it's kind of ironic since he was also a vig!

[Starcrossed]

I meant Night 2 since we skipped Night 1

you guys know what I mean anyway :3

[Dunnstral]

Right................

---

I like the scum in the vts theory

VOTE: SaraharaS

This could go either way for me

[Dunnstral]

Going to reread Starcrossed soon, KidAmn as well (a good vote today, I think).

Also going to reread Clidd who I am not sold on as town from associatives alone so we’ll see.

@Nancy, massclaim time?

I don't get how kidamn can be scum if his slot claimed even-night rolestopper before I claimed
And the bus-driver is not even-night

[KidAmn]

If you need me to spell out why "I rolestopped this person last night and they still ended up dead" was confusing I don't know what more I can say pal

Who did you RS last night?

Dunnstral. We didn't get time to actually clear a plan w/ you, so I just figured keep another PR alive if I can.

[Pink Ball]

Did Pyro claim?

[clidd]

Alright, let me take a look here.

[clidd]

@clidd, if you have examples of Gamma being unnecessarily toxic to the point where it turns conftown against him for no good reason, I'd like to see where from

That information is in the games I shared when I made the post about his meta. I don't feel so energetic to specify the points that led to my conclusion that toxicity is present in town&scum!Gamma, but if I didn't get a read on Kid, I will expand this observation to have a definite impression about the slot alignment.

[clidd]

Fey has never played like this as scum + if she is scum, that means they both possess the nightskipper and the dayvig (plus the bus driver and the role cop), which would be insanity.

I don't know who she is, unfortunately.

Regarding the mechanics, I was wondering if there was any chance of the nightskip ability to be from Titus and Fey to have some other undeclared ability, but the argument that the scumteam would have a lot of power is still valid, so yeah, I'm inclined to agree with you.

[clidd]

I'm not sure what to think about the

"Gamma would have to guess a role that can fit with another pr"

, but the slot is still low for me in terms of PoE.

There is a lot of mech talk, but I am not particularly a fan to enter the discussion. If Kid is somehow town and Star is vig, with Fey being town by mech, Dunn being towny by pov on Toog, Pb being towny by Saudade replacing out with good faith, then the only person left for Sara's partner is Pyro. But the impression I got about Olaf’s meta-dive about me tells me that the slot is town, so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

It is easier for me to consider Kid as second scum by PoE.

[Titus]

I hope everyone is having fun with this puzzle.

Nancy, when will your choice happen?

[Fey]

We are a one shot vig and we killed Sherlock + Watson on Night 1


it's kind of ironic since he was also a vig!

Okay, this explains your play then.

Was either confirmable role or scum to me, so, nice.

[Fey]

My vote is on Sarah in spirit, Nancy may direct things.

[Fey]

Actually for me this game is POE’d out.

(Me, MT, Star, Pyro) as people I know are town/I hard read as town/will sheep as being hard town.
(Pink Ball, Dunnstral, KidAmn, Clidd, Sarah)

Just need two town out of that pool and we win. I TR Pink Ball, and I suppose I am willing for now to accept Clidd as soft cleared, but that’s still a point of personal contention.

I actually think that elimming Sarah/KidAmn and then maybe Dunnstral?? Wins, but I really think it might be solved, barring me not having Bad Reads at this point.

[clidd]

Hum.. Sounds good.

Although I would be surprised if scum!Dunn was able to see the scummy way in which Toog was operating in the same period of time as me. Not that it would be difficult for my read to be wrong if you're correct on Pyro, of course, but that specific event created such a positive impression on me.

[clidd]

Anyways, we can think about Kid tomorrow, after a Sara scumflip.

[SaraharaS]

my solve right now is Clidd + KidAm

a lot of people seem to be saying Clidd is town from the interactions with Sherlock. don't buy that logic holds up given Sherlock knew that wasn't going through when Nancy was against it

[Pink Ball]

Nancy wasn't against it.

But I agree that throwing Clidd to the townbin because of Sherlock is a little extreme

[SaraharaS]

Sherlock/Clidd interaction stuff

Pink Flooooof <3

Alright whatever

VOTE: clidd I guess? Idk what do you want nancy?

-S

i feel like Sherlock is aware that voting doesn't mean much here since Nancy should always be the one picking who we ultimately exile. votes and minor shade isn't all that significant and there's no real solid push from Sherlock actually against Clidd. i just get vibes of distancing more than anything when they know that it makes them look less aligned without really threatening the over one.

Italiano and Pink Ball *could* be town off VCA in which case clidd looks very likely to be red

that might be hasty though but it sorta vibes with my gut

meh, no follow up to this

Can't decide if clidd is goon already being bussed or the town that scum want to push to disrupt the town narrative

shading without real pressure is a theme

I was just thinking it'd be interesting to see a noraa stump game but tbh noraa feels like the stump of *this* game, nancy are you sure you didn't role swap?

I still feel good about my town akarin vibe earlier but it would be nice to just see more from her. And Ari there's something you can do that would help me read u but you only are townie if you do it unprompted

Personally I really don't townread the way suffering started being like... Just mean? Too gamma, and I don't want to set a precedent that being mean or upping ate will get townreads. Like the reads of saudade flipped because he went over a line and if reads change *for those reasons* we're gonna see scum like fake anger a lot. That sort of stuff is terrible for thread readability

Nancy do you still townread clidd?I

-S

asking nancy about it without trying to convince nancy otherwise gives me vibes of not actually trying to push clidd out, just to give the appearance of it

What do you want to hear, Nancy?

-S

Well, I would really like to understand why you’re so confident on Gamma, Italiano and W & P for starters because I’m really not sure I’m seeing it?

However I did like what they said about the NS thing so dunno.

Also I want to know why you think my not wanting to rush an elim after we just miselimed in 2 days into D1 is such a horrible idea?

I would also really love any other reads you’d care to share including M & R, 5uffering. Olaf, Starcrossed and I think you’re still tr REK or was that just Akarin head?

I'm now confident on any of them tbh. Italiano, if scum, was fed his claim from titus. I don't like that tho. Usually when I feel that way the claim is just real. If he is negative utility, why didn't he claim earlier? But I've seen some things that make me think he could flip either way.

Gamma has the most fakable claim in the list and it feels a little off. If titus did a 'no protectives' rule then he could feel very safe faking a claim like that. It is a claim gamma could fake. It is also a claim that could be true for scum. The even part is interesting. That feels... Nevermind. I'll save for mason pt. Gamma, on play, I still think veers town, and if scum I would expect to be scum with pink ball.

W&P -- sam feels very, very different from scum meta, but not in a performative, survivalistic way. Also role fits what I'm seeing in setup.

I didn't say not rushing was a horrible idea. I said you do you. I do think dragging this protracted day 1 into page 180 is not good for town. Because after noraa's rep and marci's rep I'm kinda... Demoralized frankly.

Morty I don't want to talk about today.

I don't like how 5uffering has played this game. I don't know what he flips, but I wouldn't mind not thinking about him anymore.

Olaf gives me spikes of paranoia. Pyro had some pretty townie content in places.

Starcrossed... I don't feel impartial toward but haven't felt any hard pings. If pooky is scum he's at the very least playing better than he did in tenet.

I do need more akarin content...

I am very busy this week. My reads feel... Muddled. Things have happened in this game that have made me question my continued presence on this site. I am staying in the game for you, for as long as I can.

I'm gonna be honest. I actually think I'd go pink ball here. But I don't like pushing pink ball, and I don't think you want pink ball, so I don't even feel the need to go into it. Last time I pushed pink ball I was wrong and it got ugly.

I would also do clidd I guess.

Olaf if scum would be a huge hit. Clidd is a fine compromise on a vt claim. Pink Ball is probably above rand scum even tho I don't trust myself to read him correctly.

I just wanna sheep your read, whatever it is.

Please let watson handle as much as he can so I can do irl work tho <3

-S

somehow i don't really get the vibes of this being a hard push on clidd from sherlock or even anti-aligned indicative. the line of clidd is a throwaway after pushing people as alternatives that Nancy prefers to clidd

Leash Gamma to Sahara, since Fey is out of shots leash Italiano to Fey to confirm the existence of that role. W&P check one of PB or Starcrossed, sure, probably better to not leash GS to specific target

Flip 5uffering (I think that's the implication of that post? if not I'd leash him to clidd), vig... clidd? don't like this actually for some reason even though it's the 'safe' play, and this maybe changes if we're leashing 5uffering to clidd if we don't do 5uffering today

not sure if there was something else you were doing with Fey that would make a vanillaize there bad but from my POV that's correct night actions

-S

I kinda think italiano's town now, so in my opinion, italiano vanillaize fey, vig clidd makes more sense

if you think clidd is townier than italiano, then vig italiano, italiano leashed to clidd

idk I can't make some of those decisions for you

-S

doesn't want vig on clidd is notable, but none of this is really associative-indicative based on assumed scum night powers

This is getting to the point where my reads are actively degrading. I don't like the push on REK. I don't like PB (alignment wise, based on push/gamestate). I don't like clidd calling PB town *now*. I don't like the inertia on Italiano. I don't know what that adds up to in the gamestate and I don't think today will be in a good place if this dayphase goes long enough that it will create the risk of me getting to a point where I let myself push PB, because I just don't see that being good for anyone involved, even IF PB is scum. I think positionally REK is probably town simply for the way people are positioning themselves on that slot in this gamestate. But I say all that and I don't even know REK is town! Maybe PB is like softbussing to set up a chain on me later or something, I don't know! I don't even care! Nancy I am not even joking when I say that if you let this game go past page 190 I am just going to overrule you and announce the day's flip and I won't even care if you had some sort of galaxybrain mason gambit in mind or something. 180 was my 'gasket point' and I know you don't want to be rushed but look at the pagecount of this game and realize SHIT NEEDS TO DIE. I know you want to go slow and you want me to be helping you more but THIS IS ME HELPING YOU. MAKE A DECISION, RIGHT OR WRONG OR WHATEVER and let this game ADVANCE before literally the entire game is just ~done~. What happens when days go this long (pagecountwise) is that my accurate reads from earlier in the game get supplanted by the reads I have on people whose reads are annoying me, whose positioning annoys me, or whose soft pushes on me annoys me. My reads are stronger earlier because I don't have as much emotional load dealing with my evaluation of the slots. And the more frustrated I get with this game in particular, my reads get worse as the page count just continues to advance. And I say that and I know that Pink Ball, whatever his alignment, just wants to play the game he replaced into *which is fine* bearing in mind that I am just *completely sick* of 200 page day 1s. No day 1 is worth 200 pages. It's just not. All that will happen is that, since it's day 1, and since we'll just *usually* end up wrong here *somehow*, *somewhere*, we're just going to get *even more upset* when we realize we spent 200 pages talking it out only to fuck it up. Mafia isn't supposed to be played perfectly, it's supposed to be played in a way that you get the odds to *slightly* tip in your favor through *slightly* above random reads. If you try to play the perfect game the game will just slip through your fingers. That's been my takeaway from the last six months.

TBH a very big part of me wants to snap to clidd just for 4585 and say Noraa was right all along. In fact why don't we just do that?

VOTE: clidd

We're just spinning in fucking circles here Nancy, CALL THE SHOT OR I WILL

the actual push on Clidd comes here- when contextually like.. he wasn't in danger of getting flipped? these are Nanacy's posts right before this

i definitely wouldn't lim Morty today Nancy
he's mostly just there as a prediction even though I townread him
the gist for clidd is i think he's saying things he doesn't believe in and playing up the confident/commanding act
War and Peace has samantha playing to a tee to her scummeta while Ircher had some really bad moments early on
like i said i'm not gonna scumcase any of them right now
either in a few days if we're somehow still on this day
or day 2 if we flip someone

Well W & P was in my initial solve and Clidd was in Noraa’s.

My initial solve was 5uffering, Italiano, Gamma, W & P. So I’m open to W & P if you can show me they’re scum, less sure on Clidd but I’m open to it if one or more of that PoE is wrong. As for REK, if this was a regular game I might see things differently but I just can’t see Titus drafting Akarin after Pokeman Battles, especially when she’s made multiple posts about not being interested in drafting players who hate playing scum because it’s “demotivating” and Akarin detests playing scum. So my reads are part based on play, part VCA, part meta and part the likelihood of actually being drafted. So Fey is my top tr primarily based off of meta and unlikeliness of being picked. I was paranoiaing on you for likelihood of being picked but I also have gotten some town pings from you.

Why is compulsive vanilaizer a town role? Somebody please explain that.

It's very clear here that Clidd isn't even in like Nancy's top 4 targets (was like 5th/6th) and Nancy seemed fairly solid at this point since we were vibing on most of these reads around this point. i don't see the push actually being non partner indicative and think the overall trajectory leans more scum

[SaraharaS]

i'm not sure if i'm missing something when everyone seemed to townbin clidd on the associatives. i said yesterday when i went through the iso of sherlock like Nancy asked that it didn't seem remotely anti-associative to me and pointed out a couple of points where it seemed associative and it feels super weird that everyone seems to just be glossing over him here?

are the things people think make them less aligned on Clidd's end, because i don't see those either

[Fey]

Spoiler:

VOTE COUNT 2 . 26

• 5uffering
  ----------- 4 ( clidd(94), Gamma Emerald(172), 5uffering(174), War and Peace(39) )
  F- 5
  
  
  ItalianoVD
  ---------- 3 ( SaraharaS(36), Morty and Rick(139), Dunnstral(73), Titus(148) )
  F- 6
  
  
  Clidd
  --------------- 3 ( Sherlock and Watson(208), Pink Ball(221), olaf(197) )
  F- 6
  
  
  SaraharaS
  ----------- 1 ( ItalianoVD(68) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Sherlock and Watson
  - 1 ( Fey(42) )
  F- 8
  
  
  War and Peace
  ------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Morning Tweet
  ------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Starcrossed
  --------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Pink Ball
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Gamma Emerald
  ------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Toogeloo
  ------------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Morty and Rick
  ------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Fey
  ----------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Red Eye Knights
  ----- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Dunnstral
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Olaf
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ---------- 5 ( Morning Tweet(162), Starcrossed(73), Red Eye Knights(39), Toogeloo(38), Nancy Drew 39(581) )

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to Flip
Deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-28 00:01:00)

Spoiler:

VOTE COUNT 2 . 27

• ItalianoVD
  ---------- 7 ( SaraharaS(36), Morty and Rick(139), Dunnstral(73), Titus(148), Pink Ball(222), Nancy Drew 39(584), Toogeloo(43), Morning Tweet(163), Starcrossed(75) )
  F- 2
  
  
  5uffering
  ----------- 4 ( clidd(94), Gamma Emerald(172), 5uffering(174), War and Peace(39) )
  F- 5
  
  
  Clidd
  --------------- 2 ( Sherlock and Watson(208), olaf(197) )
  F- 7
  
  
  SaraharaS
  ----------- 1 ( ItalianoVD(68) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Sherlock and Watson
  - 1 ( Fey(42) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Morning Tweet
  ------- 1 ( Red Eye Knights(43) )
  F- 7
  
  
  War and Peace
  ------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Starcrossed
  --------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Pink Ball
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Gamma Emerald
  ------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Toogeloo
  ------------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Morty and Rick
  ------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Fey
  ----------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Red Eye Knights
  ----- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Dunnstral
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Olaf
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ---------- 0 ( No One )

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to Flip
Deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-28 00:01:00)

Spoiler:

VOTE COUNT 2 . FINAL

• ItalianoVD
  ---------- 9 ( SaraharaS(36), Morty and Rick(139), Dunnstral(73), Titus(148), Pink Ball(222), Nancy Drew 39(584), Toogeloo(43), Morning Tweet(163), Starcrossed(75), Red Eye Knights(44), Sherlock and Watson(236) )
  Flipping
  
  
  5uffering
  ----------- 4 ( clidd(94), Gamma Emerald(172), 5uffering(174), War and Peace(39) )
  F- 5
  
  
  Clidd
  --------------- 2 ( olaf(197) )
  F- 8
  
  
  SaraharaS
  ----------- 1 ( ItalianoVD(68) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Sherlock and Watson
  - 1 ( Fey(42) )
  F- 8
  
  
  Morning Tweet
  ------- 1 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  War and Peace
  ------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Starcrossed
  --------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Pink Ball
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Gamma Emerald
  ------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Toogeloo
  ------------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Morty and Rick
  ------ 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Fey
  ----------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Red Eye Knights
  ----- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Dunnstral
  ----------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  Olaf
  ---------------- 0 ( No One )
  F- 9
  
  
  
  
  Not Voting
  ---------- 0 ( No One )

With 16 alive, it takes 9 to Flip
Deadline is in (expired on 2021-02-28 00:01:00)

Clidd... never really came close to being voted out frankly.

Hey, we talking about scum!clidd? I’m down.

[SaraharaS]

Nancy wasn't against it.

But I agree that throwing Clidd to the townbin because of Sherlock is a little extreme

Nancy was against it in practice because there were multiple other wagons she was happy pushing. Sherlock doesn't actually push Clidd until he's clear that Nancy isn't going to push Clidd. It's more 'anti-associative' shade he throws at Clidd when he knows by setup that that doesn't really do anything

albeit a lot of this is coming from a place of me TRing all of the other VT claims except Clidd/POE. wasn't sure on clidd before now but never understood the townreads, had him as unsorted/neutral/lean bad on poe probably

[SaraharaS]

VOTE: Clidd

my solve is basically this + KidAm. i'm more confident on clidd

[Fey]

I maintain that clidd wasn’t really spewed town but I don’t uh, really know if I’m just being too paranoid since everyone else has come to the assumption that he was.

[Fey]

I'm not vibing with the W/P elimination.

VOTE: Charlie and Snoopy

Let's eliminate scum ^

Okay, also.

So I know we all think that S+W spewed Clidd town, but also, when the W+P wagon had momentum, this vote shows up.

I've been thinking about this vote.

I don't like this vote.