Mini Normal 2200 | Game Over

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

yea it's not a given but I think it fits within how Ali plays scum.

[Day]

I

might

just be pocketed by Fark. His defense of me could be from scum in the way he keeps asking what the case is on me when it's been stated multiple times by Chara, or at least its case has been. Norwee's defense of me feels a lot more genuine.

I wanna see what Day has to say. Pooky's scumread on Fark is intriguing and i don't think it's scum indicative for Pooky. But my reads allign with most of Farkrans, excluding their scumread on Pooky.

Yeah, it's hard to tell. This 1v1 or attack has spanned like 40 pages so it's hard to really get into the meat of it. 'm trying though.

Oh, and Pooky's definitely town, he's gotta be

[Day]

Last time I played with skitter she pushed town!me while defending scum!Aldu for all of day 1. I managed to get Aldu eventually and was nightkilled night 1 though. 'm not saying this to shade skitter but to explain why I don't take her reads as gospel and why I wasn't putting as much stock into the Menalque read as others were - she can be wrong just like everyone else (you're still great though, skitter22)

[Day]

He isn't really pushing much for you to die, his vote is just there?

I can see what you're saying about it not making sense >.>

His only contribution about me is casting doubt on my claim and how it

could

come from scum. There's nothing there about why my play makes me scum, but he's insisting on voting me anyway

[Day]

perhaps i didn't make myself clear enough:

HOW is lucy scummy by unvoting town!mena WHICH SHE HAD JUST PUT TO E-1 LIKE THREE POSTS EARLIER to go on a crusade against town!SKITTER?

luca had already unvoted mena from e 1

momentum had already shifted

dont tell me you are this bad at reading game state flow

you are not

you are being purposefully dense because you are scum

Pooky, I think what Farkran is asking here is why is it scummy for Lucy to vanity vote skitter and leave a wagon that's on L-2? Do you think she thought there was potential for skitter to be run up if not Mene? Or did you just think it's an absurd take?

Like, is it because of scum-motivation, or is it just that the reasoning is hard to believe?

'm asking because I want to clear this up for Fark so he can respond to some things btw

[Day]

2746 doesn't make any sense to me honestly, Fark. What do you mean by-

because he's involuntarily forced himself in a position where he can't comfortably vote anyone else without looking scummy now so he just *has* to commit to his current reads regardless

Why can't scum!Pooky vote anywhere else outside of his current scumreads or whatever?

In particular i think he dug himself down a hole when he voted lucy - lucy hasn't been scummy and i believe even skitter came to understand that (correct me if i'm wrong here) yet pooky keeps saying Lucy's votes follow a scumdriven agenda - like, what agenda is scum!lucy following exactly with her vote pattern? I've been asking for an explanation for a billion years but the answer is always the same, "lucy has an agenda" - supported by non-significative absolute wording like obviousz/ridiculous/terrible without backing them up with actual explanations

Pooky keeps raising the point that it's stupid for scum!him to vote Lucy when she's been townreading and buddying him all game - do you agree or disagree with this?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

because it completely ignores the context that the momentum was moving in the other direction

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

the point of Lucy moving from Mena to Skitter isn't to kill skitter

its to get her vote off the Mena wagon.

[Day]

Okay, so she thinks Mena isn't happening so she wants off early but you think the way she did it and the reasoning was bad?

[Day]

I think ali/mena are a team

This is kind of absurd, what in their interactions looks like SvS?

And fyi, they both bussed last time they rolled scum together and it was hilarious, but hilariously bad. I really don't think they bus like that again so soon after that.

To elaborate further

In hindsight of pooky being town i think ali has been trying to pocket me without actually sticking er head too much

And er votes are conveniently shaped to not consolidate yet e's ready to vote pretty much everywhere there's a trace of green

This is not my alisae

This elaborates on why Ali is scum but not why they're a team?

Oh, I see, it's because of that Ali unvote on the Mena wagon which makes you think SvS. I think given the meta it's unlikely though. Hang on, I'll pull something up after writing this post.

Okay, I like the following posts where he explains why Ali is scummy.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I didn't like the way she jumped on the Mena wagon in the first place.

like Fark and her had this long convo between the two of them about which person should get killed between Mena/Skitter

it was when the wagons were at 3/3 Mena/Skitter: 1411

Lucy wanted Skitter, Fark wanted Mena.

Fark appeals for Lucy to come over and vote Mena, Lucy says no she doesn't trust Fark etc. You can go back and read their entire exchange.

Ali unvotes Mena,
Norwee Votes Mena,
Luca Votes Mena,

Mena pops in and flails a bit, votes norwee/luca

Lucy pops back in and says Mena's flailing is bad, voting for luca is bad etc
Day votes Mena (e-2) next post after Lucy
Lucy votes Mena(e-1) next post after Day.

Skitter pops in and asks why Mena is the leading wagon?
Skitter votes Lucy
Mena votes Lucy


Then Fark defends Lucy from SkitteR:

"She's been on menalque for a while now so i don't see anything bad in her consolidating on the wagon + i don't think earlier posts from her were scummy? Her vote on you is legit"

1730

Like she's legit the last person on the wagon and was actively against Mena until Mena was run up and started flailing, it's just not a realistic characterization of how Lucy voted for Mena.

1751 - Luca unvote, says he doesn't want the day to end yet. This effectively kills the momentum on the Mena quick-elim since Luca is more or less town leader at this point and him asking for time to re-eval means its unrealistic for people to continue to push Mena.

30 minutes later Lucy posts the infamous 1800 and votes for skitter.

Like sometimes you go for a quick elim kill, and it doesn't get there, and you just feel awkward and you don't want to leave your vote hanging there you know what I mean?

I don't like how she wants skitter over mena, then when its mena at e-2 she flips to mena, then when momentum is gone she flips back to skitter. I don't think this is real consideration of who is scum between Mena/Skitter.

[Day]

This was something very similar to what they said about Mene in One Night Stand:

Eh VOTE: ali

Honestly either of Ali or pooky can die as well, I’m not fussed

guys
what is this player doing?

I can't find the exact post now though because their One Night Stand ISO is too long for me

[Day]

(don't think they'd make the same kind of post about him again as S/S if that wasn't clear)

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I would actually think after their one night stand s/s game they would try not to bus each other this game lol

[Day]

Yeah, that's what I mean. I don't think they're SvS

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I can see Mena scum / Ali town

I can't really see Ali scum / Mena town

I'm leaning towards Ali/Mena being T/T

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

like if I'm scum and I get a chance to hammer Mena!town, I take it like 95 out of 100 chances.

I think Ali!scum takes it maybe 99 out of 100 chances.

[Day]

No farkran you need to drive bus to skitter

I don't trust you

You scary

You yell at poooky until your echo cover up his words and don't care about his heart

I saw this and thought it looked a lot like weird scum distancing but then I remembered Lucy was still using the gimmick at this point lol

[Day]

Then Fark defends Lucy from SkitteR:

"She's been on menalque for a while now so i don't see anything bad in her consolidating on the wagon + i don't think earlier posts from her were scummy? Her vote on you is legit"

1730

Like she's legit the last person on the wagon and was actively against Mena until Mena was run up and started flailing, it's just not a realistic characterization of how Lucy voted for Mena.

This is a good point, the last time Lucy talks about Mene is in 1420 and it's positive, where'd you get the impression she'd been on Mene for a while now, Fark?

[Day]

like if I'm scum and I get a chance to hammer Mena!town, I take it like 95 out of 100 chances.

I think Ali!scum takes it maybe 99 out of 100 chances.

This is nerfed Mene though, but I suppose you're right that he could get another massive power spike at anytime. Must be scary for scum

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

it's not the power spike,

it's hard for scum to get mis-elims in this PL

when you get one served up to you on a plate you just take it and ask questions later.

Some people as scum are scared to get their hands dirty

Ali is not one of them.

[Something_Smart]

SS being scum is one of the few things that makes sense if you consider that everyone is just pushing town and no one can agree to do anything.

Really? I would think that a directionless town would imply, if anything, a strong and proactive scumteam.

[Farkran]

Then Fark defends Lucy from SkitteR:

"She's been on menalque for a while now so i don't see anything bad in her consolidating on the wagon + i don't think earlier posts from her were scummy? Her vote on you is legit"

1730

Like she's legit the last person on the wagon and was actively against Mena until Mena was run up and started flailing, it's just not a realistic characterization of how Lucy voted for Mena.

This is a good point, the last time Lucy talks about Mene is in 1420 and it's positive, where'd you get the impression she'd been on Mene for a while now, Fark?

I clearly remember her having mixed thoughts about mena which ultimately grew into a solid scumread, the vote is only consolidating her position?

However my strong townread of lucy doesn't come from the mena vote, rather from how she went against skitter before and after the mena phase. There's no reason for scum!lucy to go against skitter at that point, she could very well unvote and fade from the thread instead. Starting a new wagon against skit is the worst possible move for scum!her at that point in time, no matter how high the chances for the menalque wagon to die she would always look better if she stayed put. Skitter was already on the warpath because of her townread on menalque, why would you as scum attack a charismatic player that had very little chances to be flipped anyways - you either pocket her or leave her be - the only reason Lucy could do that is because she genuinely scumreads skitter. My strong point here is not how Lucy scumreaded or townreaded menalque but what she has been doing around that moment.

I still fail to see how anyone could think that Lucy hopping on skitter is part of a scum agenda, but i guess we never stop learning new stuff. I should have long since accepted that people often have the most divergent opinions about mafia gamestates even when reading them from the same/similar pov. I really shouldn't get mad.

(Note: i only skimmed over the last posts and i'll be catching up backwards)

[Farkran]

I would actually think after their one night stand s/s game they would try not to bus each other this game lol

I am not aware of this one night stand game but based on mena and ali personalities that i know, i think they would easily softbus and/or hardbus each other if they were both scum?

I'll keep reading to see if there is any other motive to see them as not s/s but in my personal experience i see none

[Farkran]

And fyi, they both bussed last time they rolled scum together and it was hilarious, but hilariously bad. I really don't think they bus like that again so soon after that.

Ah, i see

Hmmmm yeah if they failed that poorly i think they wouldn't give it a second try

If they are t/s i... don't really know anymore, i can see partners for mena, less so for ali, but i think either could be scum without the other. Again, i'd bet more on mena than ali - really the only reasons for me to reconsider mena have been coming from other people rather than mena himself

If they are t/t i don't know what to say, maybe pp/chara/ydrasse? skitter/ss?