Newbie 2057: Mars! - End!

[fferyllt]

Vote Count 3-6

What would it take to terraform Mars? Many scientists think that current technologies aren't sufficient for that enormous undertaking. Side effects of terraforming include the potential displacement or destruction of indigenous life. In the case of Mars, this could be microbial life. What are the ethical considerations about making the planet uninhabitable for that life?

CreativeName

(2): WhemeStar, Kazyan

Not Voting

(3): skitter30, six pomegranate seeds, CreativeName

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to eliminate.

Deadline: March 22, Midnight US Eastern Time.

Countdown: (expired on 2021-03-21 21:00:00)

Mod Notes:

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[WhemeStar]

It’s not a real pagetop if you took the page bottom as well!

[six pomegranate seeds]

I don’t think I’m gonna read to much into creative votes today because he’s conf scum in my eyes

This scumpings me because it seems obvious and I'm not sure why you have to say it. There are so many other things you could respond to or talk about and you say this.

I honestly don't understand Wheme's mindset right now if he is town. His biggest TR in kaz is saying he is going to vote wheme in final 3 and his second TR in me is saying I'm going to vote him, he has demonstrated no reaction or indication that he had any second thoughts about Kaz when I present a massive town case for skitter, does not engage in any of the reasons that I suspect him and say no I was thinking this or that at this point instead just repeatedly says oh well thats sad I don't get it. I give him posts where I lay out my argument and he doesn't respond.

Imo he can't properly explain why he thought creative was mafia how is 94 a PR soft and how is he conf scum for acting like a VT after posting 94. He referenced post 68 that looks like creative is just stating the obvious that wagon analysis gives info as a PR soft too. I don't understand how wheme PR read any of these posts and how it made him sus creative so much on d2.

Wheme has also repeatedly said stuff like "I found scum on page 5" or whatever when in his own words he PR read creative d1 and then scum read him when he was looking like a villager on d2.

He's just here posting meme posts and just outright TRing kaz with no doubts regardless of any evidence posted he can obviously read what we're posting but all he says is I'm so sad being right makes me mafia and makes no appeals to his TRs that he is town despite them telling him they are going to vote him. He instead just says let's end day instead. Why do you want to end the day when your strongest TR kaz wants to vote you in final 3? I don't see how this behavior comes from a town Wheme.

915 just reads plain scum. "I already gave a one word answer - doesn't that explain why I was so sure creative was PR/scum? Why are you asking for elaboration?" Like what is there to be confused about? Skitter wants elaboration to see whether your read seems genuine. The way you react just seems like he doesn't want to say anything because there is no depth to the read it's just shallow thinking used to bus while to me it just doesn't really make any sense how 94 is a PR soft.

[WhemeStar]

This scumpings me because it seems obvious and I'm not sure why you have to say it. There are so many other things you could respond to or talk about and you say this.

Because skitter just talked about a creative vote????

[WhemeStar]

he has demonstrated no reaction or indication that he had any second thoughts about Kaz when I present a massive town case for skitter,

You did the same thing for Kaz

[six pomegranate seeds]

he has demonstrated no reaction or indication that he had any second thoughts about Kaz when I present a massive town case for skitter,

You did the same thing for Kaz

The difference is my biggest sus is you. If someone presented a massive town case for you I would start doubting my TRs on others more.

I reviewed Kaz again after town casing skitter because I was having doubts. I want to recheck Kaz a little more because I think skitter is right you can interpret a few moments from Kaz as scummy - early vote on creative but easily unvotes, votes creative out the bat but unvotes and says he will vote samcro, tells me it's ok to SR him if creative flips town, his posting patter of occasional big juicy posts off the top of my head. But points 1, 2, 4, and 6 from 981 make me feel better about kaz town. I think the way kaz openly agreed with creative in chat and the way creative tried to pacified him and called him "Kayzan - Null - possibly just a town who is being pocketed by scum" in 357 makes me feel like creative as going for a pocket on kazyan. You don't have to be buddy buddy with your partner in day chat but buddying up to a town can help them vote with you.

Rereading 224 "WhemeStar just parked his vote there and wasn't around during the hammer blowup. He could be scum, but given Creative's reads, I feel like it's more likely that he's just lazy!town and an easy miselim. If Creative flips town, we might have to revisit him." Idk, kaz saying this as creative's partner just feels awkward. Maybe kaz is very good at faking uncertainty as mafia but I love his fear of confirmation bias and I loved Kaz saying I'm not going to SR anyone early and then goes ahead and does it anyway early d1 would be super strong play as maf but I kinda want to just TR it.

1028 sorry maybe I'm not following I don't really understand how skitter suggested let's just quickhammer because I'm gone for two days means you should tell us now you realize the votes were NAI. The entire day the votes have been NAI there was no world we could not vote Creative, unless I wanted to be selfish and gambit trying to vote you and see if mafia hammers - but that's not fun for anyone else.

[six pomegranate seeds]

The Andante kill doesn't have an obvious cause to me. Maybe it's that Andante's reads were a wildcard? They didn't say anything after the tracker claim.

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

~
Of course, one of andante's biggest suspicions eod was kaz hmmmmm

Yeah, true that's one thing that could point to Kaz. I'm not going to try to answer any questions for Kaz - I think if you look at certain individual posts of Kaz they can look scummy, maybe I should reread a little more. But I feel like Creative was too nice to Kaz and creative and kaz agreed too much at certain points for them to see partnery. Idk maybe I should read again.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Like for example at 123 why does Kaz give his scum partner additional firepower in day chat to push pooky if they are scum together? 125 "That is why I said "discrediting" Someone referred to it as that earlier, I don't think it is but what They were refering to, what I quoted, was like Kaz said content-less posting and warning me of a danger no one else seemed to see, I think it's possible pocketing or trying to get me to town read you" - Creative borrows the argument from his partner to continue pushing on pooky? Why are they helping each other push on pooky a miselim in broad daylight when neither of them are in danger at that moment (3 votes on pooky, 2 votes on whemestar)? It makes more sense to me that creative is light scumming wheme while actually protecting wheme by voting pooky for shitty reasons he can't really explain and needs to borrow town wheme's argument to keep pushing it to keep wheme from ending up the EOD1 vote.

[six pomegranate seeds]

town wheme's argument to keep pushing it to keep wheme from ending up the EOD1 vote.

whoops meant town kaz here.

[six pomegranate seeds]

I love this song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNTbe0k ... l=Vinny141

[WhemeStar]

I’m not gonna lie I d beeen drinking all day and I can’t read your posts without mxijf up words so j can’t get into this right now maybe tomorrow

[six pomegranate seeds]

What happened next was people splitting down the middle between Creative and SAMCRO--which was bad for two reasons. First, it mant that if a miselimination was had outside of Creative and SAMCRO, there's nothing that Mafia has left to worry about except for an incriminating tracker result. Second, it meant that we didn't even have the votepower to come to a conclusions--two people were MAI.

I'm just rereading Kaz's north start post. I think this statement about incriminating tracker result is weird imo if Kaz is scum and knows creative may claim tracker, I feel like Kaz scum doesn't necessarily make that comment about tracker. Second of all I think Kaz saying he is willing to vote either Creative or SAMCRO and doesn't care doesn't really read as if Kaz is a partner who knows Creative could claim tracker and wiggle away because then Kaz could focus in more on sussing creative rather than admitting he doesn't care.

I don't mind you sussing Kaz skitter I'm just not totally seeing it.

[WhemeStar]

all I gotta say is means scum doesn’t want creativentonfakenclaim tracker and I don’t grtnwhyn

[WhemeStar]

all I gotta say is means scum doesn’t want creativentonfakenclaim tracker and I don’t grt why you would ever think we are partners I’ve scumread him all game and now that I know I’m right I’m so confident in my rewds but it kind of tilts me that I’m getting scum read for them. I really don’t know how scum anymore I’m just confident in creative scum

[WhemeStar]

I just double posted I’m so sorry I wish I was banned for 12 hours

[CreativeName]

TBH i sorta tr seeds and skitter for not hammering this, if they were scum they'd know they'd win from a quickhammer, I also see a possible wheme/kaz team as no one is hammering surely a scum on the wagon could just tell their buddy to hammer me, a town, and win unless both scum are on the wagon

[six pomegranate seeds]

Think of it this way skitter, creative didn’t necessarily have to claim tracker just then no one gave intent. Who stood to gain the most from creative fake claiming? Whemestar did creative even blamed wheme for making him Rr (feels very partnery) because he was saying this is scum over and over for seemingly weak reasons off of a super weak PR read. IMO kaz has less to gain from the Rr because he admitted he would be willing to vote either sam or creative. Also kaz left his vote parked on creative leaving him at two votes and making him a viable vote for a lot of d2 might be more risky to a partner than wheme putting creative at e-1 for 24 hours then creative claiming before anyone declared intent. Also if wheme was so certain that creative was PR or scum why would he not ask for a RR before telling people to hammer creative just to make sure he wasn’t right about PR read? Doesn’t make sense.

The way wheme has played all of d3 has been very passive and reactionary on d2 he asked people what we thought of creative and quoted two posts from grif and creative and said he didn’t like them and defended samcro. D1 he pushed onto pooky and asked you if you Sussed him skitter. Today he has very little content most of it is just saying “can’t believe you sus me” he doesn’t respond to any of my arguments just says oh maybe ur scum. He keeps saying he Sussed creative all game but by his own explanation he thought creatives was a PR d1 and tried to help him live n2 so he’s not even being internally consistent he first expresses sus on creative early d2 after kaz had voted creative already on d2. This reactionary play style focused upon guilt tripping me rather than him arguing or providing quotes like he did on d2 is very scummy to me.

I will vote wheme in final 3 for sure, and if I die I ask you to vote wheme too skitter. But I’ll await your ongoing thoughts.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Also if you read the tone of the posts when wheme has a chance to ask andante to hammer creative he doesn’t try to make them hammer his tone is very lukewarm “I haven’t thought about creative flipping town there is no way he does” and is not persuasive if wheme really scum reads creative - I think town wheme would be more persuasive. And if wheme is so concerned that creative might be PR why does he not ask for RR? His certainty coupled with his lukewarm appeal for hammer then creative Rr ing before andante or I returned implies to me wheme never put creative in any real danger and he has the most to gain from creative outting himself there.

[six pomegranate seeds]

Who asked for short night btw

I did not ask for short night. I didn't know it existed. I replied yes when I was asked if I agreed to it. Why did you want to know this wheme?

[six pomegranate seeds]

Also what was the game that was brought up and illegal at the time? What was the importance of bringing it up I forgot

I thought if Skitter was creative's partner he would have asked if it was against the rules to post about the ISO in the mafia private thread before posting it because he seemed to think he was breaking the rules when he posted it initially so I thought it was a point that made skitter more town.

[six pomegranate seeds]

ne more thing pinged me but I forgot it maybe itll come back to me.

What was this thing?

[skitter30]

Imo he can't properly explain why he thought creative was mafia how is 94 a PR soft and how is he conf scum for acting like a VT after posting 94. He referenced post 68 that looks like creative is just stating the obvious that wagon analysis gives info as a PR soft too. I don't understand how wheme PR read any of these posts and how it made him sus creative so much on d2.

Wheme has also repeatedly said stuff like "I found scum on page 5" or whatever when in his own words he PR read creative d1 and then scum read him when he was looking like a villager on d2.

He's just here posting meme posts and just outright TRing kaz with no doubts regardless of any evidence posted he can obviously read what we're posting but all he says is I'm so sad being right makes me mafia and makes no appeals to his TRs that he is town despite them telling him they are going to vote him. He instead just says let's end day instead. Why do you want to end the day when your strongest TR kaz wants to vote you in final 3? I don't see how this behavior comes from a town Wheme.

honestly a lot of these things are playstyle indicative for wheme. i wouldn't really call them scum indicative tbh

[skitter30]

creative tried to pacified him and called him "Kayzan - Null - possibly just a town who is being pocketed by scum"

i saw that too but this is like a prototypical way for scum to read their partner tho
i don't think this is pacifying in any way

[skitter30]

Yeah, true that's one thing that could point to Kaz. I'm not going to try to answer any questions for Kaz - I think if you look at certain individual posts of Kaz they can look scummy, maybe I should reread a little more. But I feel like Creative was too nice to Kaz and creative and kaz agreed too much at certain points for them to see partnery. Idk maybe I should read again.

i feel like his whole bouncing on and off of creative throughout the early part of the game was scummy and i still would like my responses to 1014 and 1015

[skitter30]

Like for example at 123 why does Kaz give his scum partner additional firepower in day chat to push pooky if they are scum together? 125 "That is why I said "discrediting" Someone referred to it as that earlier, I don't think it is but what They were refering to, what I quoted, was like Kaz said content-less posting and warning me of a danger no one else seemed to see, I think it's possible pocketing or trying to get me to town read you" - Creative borrows the argument from his partner to continue pushing on pooky? Why are they helping each other push on pooky a miselim in broad daylight when neither of them are in danger at that moment (3 votes on pooky, 2 votes on whemestar)? It makes more sense to me that creative is light scumming wheme while actually protecting wheme by voting pooky for shitty reasons he can't really explain and needs to borrow town wheme's argument to keep pushing it to keep wheme from ending up the EOD1 vote.

123 - why wouldn't he? that literally provides more firepower to the building pooky wagon? i'm not sure why he wouldn't do that
125 - again why not?

seeds i don't really think your reasons for townreading kaz are as strong as you think they are