Mini Normal 2196 - Game Over

[clidd]

That's a better reaction.

[Flea The Magician]

You're also seeming to operate under the principal that I would respond to an insult in an aggressive manner.

Passive aggressive, maybe, actually aggressive, nah. Your argument aint worth the effort considering you got nothing to back it up.

[geraintm]

@clidd - i'm not sure what you are wanting? you sit there and post snarky gifs, tell me (and others) that i (we) are just wrong. like, you sat there and asked for flea's take on the votes, he did it, and you just go "ah, i see what you've done there but you are sadly mistaken and i couldn't possibly be scum..."
llama posted a reads list and you just reply with "I don't get it" when you see yourself top of the pops.

all you've done lately is sit there and go "amelie feels off to me, i think they are scum"
you constantly have a go at me for being fixated on you (and i have tried looking elsewhere - i went through flea as best i could), yet you are doing exactly the same with amelie! " I'm only viewing Amélie as scum atm."

[clidd]

Do you think it's scum indicative my behavior, Gera?

[Flea The Magician]

VOTE: Clidd

Well if he doesn't, I do.

You're doing a lot of asking, and not much working.

[Flea The Magician]

I wanna see you put your money where your mouth is, I've done the hard work of getting the vote counts and applying colour to the confirmed flips and updating some of the names for replacements, now its your turn to look over the information.

[clidd]

Ok, and what do you think of me not using your vca, Flea?

[clidd]

By extension, what do you make of me not voting you after expressing doubt about your reaction to my insult?

[clidd]

@Pooky

The Ame wagon is giving me similar vibes to when I was hardpushing Saudade in our last game.

Do you think the occasion in which Ame's departure happened would make more sense for town!Ame getting frustrated or for a tactical departure? (considering that there was no AtE post prior to the replace out)

[Flea The Magician]

I think you need to revisit what can be considered an insult, and I really don't care if you use my VCA or not, because frankly I know you can't do better.

My turn.
Why do you consider my VCA incomplete exactly?
What information did you hope I'd glean from my efforts?
Why did you feel the need to attempt to insult my efforts?
Why are you so keen to ask questions, yet answer none and give no information?
What do you think of the phrase "put up or shut up"?
Why are you so evasive over my challenge to do one better if you're so confident?
Are you actually lacking confidence in your reads?
Is that because you're scum with an inability to actually find any other way to discredit me?

[clidd]

Spoiler:

@Llama

This is a towngame from her:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

It looks different to me, although she used the readlist model there as well.

Idk, I'm just not being able to place her slot on the same level as the others.

I can tell when town is scumreading me and you definitely don't reflect me as coming from a town mentality.

You're basically throwing shade in several directions but voting for me because I'm pushing you. If I reconsidered, you would change your stance and I don't think that mirroring is something that town!you would do.

You're basically throwing shade in several directions but voting for me because I'm pushing you. If I reconsidered, you would change your stance and I don't think that mirroring is something that town!you would do.

If you were town reading me, I would vote VFP. One of you two is scum and since that's the case, I would vote whichever keeps pushing me. Since both are pushing, I believe you to be scummier so I am voting you.

I find it hard to consider that town!you really believe such thing.

This is an oversimplification of a premise that can easily be wrong but which you consider to be true by "??" reasons.

It's more plausible to me that you're coming from a scum mentality trying to emulate a town reasoning than a town mentality genuinely trying to find out who is scum, considering how weird is the way you're seeing me/Vfp.

I also think that town!you would engage with me and Vfp individually to have a greater accuracy of read instead of limiting yourself to eliminating anyone who "looks" more scummy between the two of us.

Pushing you more or less isn't really something that should make you consider that specific side scum and town!you probably know that too.

I strongly disagree that this is scum flail. I do not believe any scum would not care about their elim to this extent and the emotion does not strike me as fake. Although I agree Goofball cannot be in endgame for obvious reasons, I think Goofball is for sure town here. Take a look at their posts when they were at E-1 or E-2. Is that really what scum would post there? I don't think so.

I don't like voting replacements so my vote for now will stay on VOTE: Clidd while I try to sort Flea the Magician. I will vote Flea the Magician if I must.

I can see Clidd thinking I am scum as town but I can't see Clidd thinking Goofball is scum

after Flea's posts because those were not convincing.

Like you said here.

You saw me pushing you as towny, but my fos on Dgb scummy. Now, however, you saw my push on you as scummy (?).

VFP is not obvtown and one of VFP and Clidd has to be scum. There is no other reason the game state looks like this.

Actually, there is an alternative explanation: you're the scum outside the radar not being pushed, which is why we're struggling to find scum outside of a scum!Amélie scenario, especially if Gera is town.

Clidd - dropped to null because of insistence that I am scum but then no reasoning to back it up.

I don't think this day needs to go on any longer and I will now hammer any wagon that reaches E-1.

I'm fine with basically any wagon at this point.

Another scum is geraintm. Goofball's wagon had so many people saying they were town but that there was absolutely no way another wagon would go through yet geraintm's built up in a couple pages and died down even faster. This is clear indication of high resistance to a scum wagon. I haven't looked through the wagon yet but just the fact that it ended up on Goofball is a problem. Llama started this switch actually and I still think he is town because if he were scum, he wouldn't have the guts to switch off at such a crucial time especially if geraintm is scum like I think he is.

I think my vote here is legitimate at this point

When you first came into the game I felt something was off but your effort threw me off. I know one of you and VFP are scum and it doesn't really matter who goes today because the pool Clidd and VFP definitely has scum.

More of what town!Amélie wouldn't think ^

Amélie's ISO is full of shade on multiple slots and it's likely that she considered everyone in the game, even her townreads, as scum at some point. This seems to me to be a classic case of "forgetting reads" that occurs most often when the reads in question are false and does not come from a genuine scumhunting perspective, as well as the behavioral incongruity to the identical situations I mentioned above on 2353.

I don't think she's saying what she actually believes, but what she thinks that town!she or a townie should be thinking.

Her

"oh, there must be scum between clidd and vfp but I'm not sure who it is, but clidd is pushing me so I'll vote him bc doesn't matter the order because if he's town I can vote Vfp tomorrow, although I said that A50 can be scum if Vfp is town too"

is an absurd line of reasoning for a town to believe. She always has someone to push, but there is nothing in her reads that justify such a big self-confidence, especially considering that tomorrow is ELO (lylo) with a townflip today.

She probably doesn't understand how self-confidence works from an uninformed perspective and is emulating the feeling incorrectly.

then good

VOTE: Gretchen

But you should definitely know of my ability to break down walls

Nothing too important in the next page but I don't like this at all.

I am now pretty certain the scum team is April Ludgate, Entrapta, and Clidd.

I thought you were towny for your poking and prodding but now I think it was all just for show. I hate the vote switch there and I think Flavorleaf is scum again.

Town: bugspray, Gretchen
Null: Minimegabyte, AliceK, Ydrasse
Scum: Clidd, Entrapta, April Ludgate

Here, for example ^

Very spicy for someone to think like that on day 1 without any claim or info.

And thinking about her read on me again, it's basically a mirror.

If I see her slot as town>

ok, clidd is town

If I see her slot as scum>

ok, clidd is scum

Which means that I'm only scum if I push her (?)

Sorry, I'm not buying.

I'm trying to think about how town!Ame would react to this set of posts.

The answer is probably the key to find out her alignment.

pedit: Give me some minutes.

[VFP]

If Flea is red, then today is just obvious distancing attempt from Flea to amelie.
Nice.

[clidd]

I think you need to revisit what can be considered an insult, and I really don't care if you use my VCA or not, because frankly I know you can't do better.

My turn.
Why do you consider my VCA incomplete exactly?
What information did you hope I'd glean from my efforts?
Why did you feel the need to attempt to insult my efforts?
Why are you so keen to ask questions, yet answer none and give no information?
What do you think of the phrase "put up or shut up"?
Why are you so evasive over my challenge to do one better if you're so confident?
Are you actually lacking confidence in your reads?
Is that because you're scum with an inability to actually find any other way to discredit me?

1- It's not considering the context of the gamestate in the period in which the votes took place, nor does it connect the individual motivations of each player to the vca.

2- No idea.

3- Because I want to.

4- I don't know what it means.

5- I didn't feel challenged and I'm not being evasive. I just don't care (but yes, I would be able to do better using the same effort you applied).

6- Yes, from time to time.

7- No, I'm skeptical and always try to re-analyze in order not to reach incorrect conclusions.

[clidd]

If Flea is red, then today is just obvious distancing attempt from Flea to amelie.
Nice.

I would prefer an Ame elim before Flea today, personally speaking.

Although I'm not a fan of Flea, she did more compared to Amélie and I feel more % of her slot being scum.

But we can still wait for a replacement, hopefully.

[clidd]

Why did you feel the need to attempt to insult my efforts?

I skipped that question unconsciously ^

But the answer is that I did not aim to insult you, but to analyze how you reacted to what I was saying.

[Flea The Magician]

OK, you think I'm genuinely going to go through every single damn vote and look at who and why?
OK then sure.

The thing is, it's using flips to look at votes and patterns. Not looking at the substance of the votes beyond a bit of surface analysis. Especially at 1am lol.

To "put up or shut up" is a local thing to me, and it basically means "Either do better yourself, or keep quiet". If you're capable of doing more using the same effort, then do so. and that is a direct challenge.

Just a reminder peeps, please use fae/faer or they/them to refer to me please. Might not seem much, but each chip soon adds up

[clidd]

The pronoun was not in bad faith, I forgot. It's very difficult for me to use this type of thing (my English is not native).

Regarding the vca, sorry, but I don't think it's productive to elaborate one now. Although that does not mean that I cannot criticize yours, since I don't think it is very useful since I don't see as true the point of scum always having to be inside a wagon, when in reality an elim can occur with or without scum interference. I believe I already mentioned that.

You, however, can think whatever you want about my posture, since it's in your right to do, as well as voting on me.

[clidd]

I also think that the game is not that simple with 4 PRs + 2 clears. My guess is that A50 is scum or there is a result that is not town (Lotus or Llama). Although this is difficult to say, as both slots are very towny, but not impossible.

[clidd]

Correction: 2 Prs + 2 clears.

[clidd]

More likely between PRs (A50).

But we're going to elim outside them anyways.

[clidd]

Amelie has requested replacement

That's all. Waiting for this ^

[Flea The Magician]

The pronoun was not in bad faith, I forgot. It's very difficult for me to use this type of thing (my English is not native).

Regarding the vca, sorry, but I don't think it's productive to elaborate one now. Although that does not mean that I cannot criticize yours, since I don't think it is very useful since I don't see as true the point of scum always having to be inside a wagon, when in reality an elim can occur with or without scum interference. I believe I already mentioned that.

You, however, can think whatever you want about my posture, since it's in your right to do, as well as voting on me.

None of them have been malicious, which is why I've not called out anyone in particular. I'm aware Spanish genders everything. There's been a couple culprits though


This is an absolute cop out though. Why not share your thoughts an opinions? I've done the hard work and given an unbiased VC run down for you to work off, my VCA might be lacking, so I dare you to do better.
You are free to criticise, however, i am also free to call you out on your BS. You are right, wagons can be entirely town driven. But the where does that leave us? you and Amélie still.

[Not_Mafia]

VC 3.07

PookyTheMagicalBear (0)-

Amélie (1)-

clidd

Flea The Magician (3)-

LlamaFluff, PookyTheMagicalBear, RLotus

(E-2)

geraintm (0)-

VFP (0)-

RLotus (0)-

clidd (3)-

geraintm, Amélie, Flea The Magician

(E-2)

LlamaFluff (0)-

Almost50 (0)-

Not Voting (2)-

Almost50, VFP

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to Eliminate.

Deadline is

(expired on 2021-04-11 19:00:00)

- Apr 11th 19:00 GMT

[clidd]

@Flea

As I said, you are free to think whatever you want, even if it is the worst possible interpretation of what my answer means to you.

If I think it will be relevant to my understanding of the game to do a vca or a more detailed analysis of a specific slot or event, I will do.

Right now, I'm fine with my vote. Depending on the successor that will enter the slot, however, this may or may not change.

[clidd]

It's very delusional for you to consider that I'm giving excuses, by the way.