Mini Normal 2196 - Game Over

[clidd]

Flea already played with me and knows that I'm better at describing my impressions than doing VCAs.

And, well, VCA isn't my thing, but I can do pretty well if I put the effort to do it.

[clidd]

But I don't think it will help me specifically in the current game, considering the confused gamestate we're in, which is why I chose not to.

[clidd]

Quite simple.

[clidd]

Your question gave me scumpings, by the way (politic)

[clidd]

Spoiler:

@Llama

This is a towngame from her:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

It looks different to me, although she used the readlist model there as well.

Idk, I'm just not being able to place her slot on the same level as the others.

I can tell when town is scumreading me and you definitely don't reflect me as coming from a town mentality.

You're basically throwing shade in several directions but voting for me because I'm pushing you. If I reconsidered, you would change your stance and I don't think that mirroring is something that town!you would do.

You're basically throwing shade in several directions but voting for me because I'm pushing you. If I reconsidered, you would change your stance and I don't think that mirroring is something that town!you would do.

If you were town reading me, I would vote VFP. One of you two is scum and since that's the case, I would vote whichever keeps pushing me. Since both are pushing, I believe you to be scummier so I am voting you.

I find it hard to consider that town!you really believe such thing.

This is an oversimplification of a premise that can easily be wrong but which you consider to be true by "??" reasons.

It's more plausible to me that you're coming from a scum mentality trying to emulate a town reasoning than a town mentality genuinely trying to find out who is scum, considering how weird is the way you're seeing me/Vfp.

I also think that town!you would engage with me and Vfp individually to have a greater accuracy of read instead of limiting yourself to eliminating anyone who "looks" more scummy between the two of us.

Pushing you more or less isn't really something that should make you consider that specific side scum and town!you probably know that too.

I strongly disagree that this is scum flail. I do not believe any scum would not care about their elim to this extent and the emotion does not strike me as fake. Although I agree Goofball cannot be in endgame for obvious reasons, I think Goofball is for sure town here. Take a look at their posts when they were at E-1 or E-2. Is that really what scum would post there? I don't think so.

I don't like voting replacements so my vote for now will stay on VOTE: Clidd while I try to sort Flea the Magician. I will vote Flea the Magician if I must.

I can see Clidd thinking I am scum as town but I can't see Clidd thinking Goofball is scum

after Flea's posts because those were not convincing.

Like you said here.

You saw me pushing you as towny, but my fos on Dgb scummy. Now, however, you saw my push on you as scummy (?).

VFP is not obvtown and one of VFP and Clidd has to be scum. There is no other reason the game state looks like this.

Actually, there is an alternative explanation: you're the scum outside the radar not being pushed, which is why we're struggling to find scum outside of a scum!Amélie scenario, especially if Gera is town.

Clidd - dropped to null because of insistence that I am scum but then no reasoning to back it up.

I don't think this day needs to go on any longer and I will now hammer any wagon that reaches E-1.

I'm fine with basically any wagon at this point.

Another scum is geraintm. Goofball's wagon had so many people saying they were town but that there was absolutely no way another wagon would go through yet geraintm's built up in a couple pages and died down even faster. This is clear indication of high resistance to a scum wagon. I haven't looked through the wagon yet but just the fact that it ended up on Goofball is a problem. Llama started this switch actually and I still think he is town because if he were scum, he wouldn't have the guts to switch off at such a crucial time especially if geraintm is scum like I think he is.

I think my vote here is legitimate at this point

When you first came into the game I felt something was off but your effort threw me off. I know one of you and VFP are scum and it doesn't really matter who goes today because the pool Clidd and VFP definitely has scum.

More of what town!Amélie wouldn't think ^

Amélie's ISO is full of shade on multiple slots and it's likely that she considered everyone in the game, even her townreads, as scum at some point. This seems to me to be a classic case of "forgetting reads" that occurs most often when the reads in question are false and does not come from a genuine scumhunting perspective, as well as the behavioral incongruity to the identical situations I mentioned above on 2353.

I don't think she's saying what she actually believes, but what she thinks that town!she or a townie should be thinking.

Her

"oh, there must be scum between clidd and vfp but I'm not sure who it is, but clidd is pushing me so I'll vote him bc doesn't matter the order because if he's town I can vote Vfp tomorrow, although I said that A50 can be scum if Vfp is town too"

is an absurd line of reasoning for a town to believe. She always has someone to push, but there is nothing in her reads that justify such a big self-confidence, especially considering that tomorrow is ELO (lylo) with a townflip today.

She probably doesn't understand how self-confidence works from an uninformed perspective and is emulating the feeling incorrectly.

then good

VOTE: Gretchen

But you should definitely know of my ability to break down walls

Nothing too important in the next page but I don't like this at all.

I am now pretty certain the scum team is April Ludgate, Entrapta, and Clidd.

I thought you were towny for your poking and prodding but now I think it was all just for show. I hate the vote switch there and I think Flavorleaf is scum again.

Town: bugspray, Gretchen
Null: Minimegabyte, AliceK, Ydrasse
Scum: Clidd, Entrapta, April Ludgate

Here, for example ^

Very spicy for someone to think like that on day 1 without any claim or info.

And thinking about her read on me again, it's basically a mirror.

If I see her slot as town>

ok, clidd is town

If I see her slot as scum>

ok, clidd is scum

Which means that I'm only scum if I push her (?)

Sorry, I'm not buying.

I'm trying to think about how town!Ame would react to this set of posts.

The answer is probably the key to find out her alignment.

pedit: Give me some minutes.

My posts against your slot are inside the spoilers, if you want to take a look.

[Flea The Magician]

I am a legend.

You are to me <3

seem to imply that fae wants to 1v1 me

Yeesh you think you much of yaself don'cha, you came for me remember

And, well, VCA isn't my thing, but I can do pretty well if I put the effort to do it.

Put your money where your mouth is

gunna go look at the posts you pointed out, which you've given absolutely no context for btw.

[clidd]

@Flea

Hum, no. My money will stay in the same place.

Unless you give me a very strong reason for me to think you are scum or Titus shows to be town.

And the posts are optional, since you asked for them yourself.

[clidd]

But I wouldn't mind a little help from you with Amélie/Titus. Maybe you can see something that I don't.

[clidd]

Those posts are good too, if you can extract something, but again, they are not mandatory. I'm just suggesting to stimulate your mind, since you apparently like it.

[Flea The Magician]

You linked me votecounts... what the actual..? OK fine. I'll entertain this
First post you linked is VC1.08

Spoiler: VC1.08 Post 339

VC 1.08

Featherless Biped

(0)-

PookyTheMagicalBear

(6)-

Flea The Magician

,

geraintm

,

VFP

,

Gretchen

,

DrippingGoofball

,

Featherless Biped

(E-1)

Amélie

(0)-

DrippingGoofball

(1)-

HypoSoc

Flea The Magician

(1)-

PookyTheMagicalBear

geraintm

(0)-

Gretchen

(0)-

VFP

(0)-

RLotus

(0)-

clidd

(1)-

LlamaFluff

LlamaFluff

(2)-

Almost50

,

clidd

HypoSoc

(1)-

RLotus

Almost50

(0)-

Not Voting (1)-

Amélie

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in Expired - Mar 3rd 20:00 GMT

So the first E-1 is on pooks slot in 1.08, 3 conftown, me gerain and VFP. I reckon VFP is the scum on the wagon there.

That's what I said about it. I know I'm town, leaving geraintm and VFP. I'm townreading geraintm, but sure lets go hunt the votes.

I can't actually find where geraintm was an RVS vote - which was unvoted.

April also nekkid voted.
Not sure what you want me to get from these. Both contentless votes.

Next up, VC2.05. Town led wagon, I still say VFP is scummy here. Lets look at the vote reason...
Hey look its a buddy up to you. They don't wanna vote you so they're voting Amélie instead.

Hey you're right this is a good thing to do

VC2.23 up next, another town led wagon with *shock horror* VFP.

Vote hunt time! Hey look your vote is here, and its naff too.

VFP seems to be a little less defeatist. "General interest and possibility here" and using less than 2 days as a justification for a wagon.


I still don't get what you want me to see here Clidd

[Flea The Magician]

Yup, the posts were optional, but there's method to the madness, you know me by now clidd

[clidd]

@Titus

It's fine if you want to do vca and etc, but I would like to see some reads from you.

I know that you're busy with your life, but it's important for me to identify if you are town or scum within today.

pedit: Thank you, let me take a look.

pedit²: Lol, I don't know what you mean by ''there's method to the madness'', but I like you regardless of your alignment (as a person).

[clidd]

Hum..

Flea, I have a question (it's something outside of these posts and Amélie):

How are you seeing the people who are voting you?

clidd (3)- geraintm, Amélie, Flea The Magician (E-2)

For example, I think that Gera + you are likely town voting me and Amélie scum.

Flea The Magician (3)- LlamaFluff, PookyTheMagicalBear, RLotus (E-2)

In your case, there is one PR (towny), his report Llama (towny) and Rlotus (towny + A50's report).

Do you think everyone voting you rn is town?

[Flea The Magician]

They're town, wrong town, but town.

[clidd]

Yes, but if you're town, and I'm not wrong on you, that would mean that we have two major wagons on town.

Hypothetically speaking (since you probably don't believe in this scenario and think that I'm scum), what would this type of gamestate suggest to you?

[clidd]

To be more precise, if we are both town, why did the game shape itself into two big town wagons in your opinion? (theoretically speaking)

[Flea The Magician]

Scum complacency and hiding in plain sight.

Thing about good scum players, is they can and will twist the game state to their need and just kinda nudge wagons as they want them - not just as they need them. There was no counter to me for a while and and you're competing wagon.... lemme find the latest VC...

[Flea The Magician]

VC 3.08

PookyTheMagicalBear

(0)-

Amélie

(1)-

clidd

Flea The Magician

(3)-

LlamaFluff

,

PookyTheMagicalBear

,

RLotus

(E-2)

geraintm

(0)-

VFP

(0)-

RLotus

(0)-

clidd

(3)-

geraintm

,

Amélie

,

Flea The Magician

(E-2)

LlamaFluff

(0)-

Almost50

(0)-

Not Voting (2)-

Almost50

,

VFP

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to Eliminate.

Deadline is Expired - Apr 11th 19:00 GMT

Best thing about that lil script, I can literally just stuff a new VC in at the top and tadaaaaaa.
What I will be watching for on this is where Titus places her vote and why, and if gerain moves his vote.

I'm also looking at VFP because I'm pretty sure they will put me at E-1 if not hammer.

Simple fact being there's a town wagon, on a town player. It's a good bussing opportunity to attempt to create anti-associatives.

This is an ideal scum gamestate rn, honestly. More ideal than yesterday, my elimination is favoured over yours so scum gets an easy day.

[Titus]

I like Flea as town initially. They're pretty open and detailed in their theories. Saturday morning (at the latest) I'll be running my own VCA and compare with theirs to ensure its not full of hot air or protecting slots randomly, but disagreement alone won't flag as scummy due to the game being early.

That or maybe Flea is a fae after my own heart and ego.

[Titus]

lil script

What little script?

[Titus]

Also, what do the color codes mean in your VC?

[clidd]

Scum complacency and

hiding in plain sight

.

Thing about good scum players, is they can and will twist the game state to their need and just kinda nudge wagons as they want them - not just as they need them. There was no counter to me for a while and and you're competing wagon.... lemme find the latest VC...

That's a point that I was thinking about for a while when I had the feeling that I was overlooking something.

[clidd]

And thinking about it again, I'm not sure if a townflip on you would really boost the credibility about the scum!Amélie theory. In fact, considering our dialogue, I would probably integrate the PoE of miselim endgame.

[clidd]

This is an ideal scum gamestate rn, honestly.

Yep, if we share the same alignment, I can see an easy scum win happening.

The thing is that I'm having trouble seeing Vfp as scum, but if I take a re-look at April (who is a FlavorLeaf alt and his predecessor), I do think that he was playing with the same pattern of scum!FL more than just town!FL being scummy, which can probably make me reconsider. But still, Vfp doesn't give me a sense that he's trying to do something, if scum, rn, besides saying that he would be willing to vote you. So meh..

[Flea The Magician]

lil script

What little script?

I feed the vote counts into a python script, it add colours, strips some tags and bits and gives me back what you see.

First line in the file is

Code: Select all

, Klick:Ydrasse:Featherless Biped@t, Dannflor:Da Dude:Entrapta:PookyTheMagicalBear@>, Amélie, DrippingGoofball@t, AliceK:Flea The Magician, geraintm, Gretchen@t, April Ludgate:VFP, RLotus@>, Artemiana:clidd, bugspray:LlamaFluff@>, HypoSoc@t, Solon:MiniMegabyte:Almost50@>

Covers replacements (marked with : ) and then alignments marked with @.

updated version of mine replaces the old names with the current slot holder but italics to make life a little easier on me tracking who is in what slot.

Green +bold/underline = flipped or 100% confirmed
Green without the bold/underline is unflipped/confirmed but with strong bias towards that.

Red is the same.

Cyan is used for my PoE/questionable people, other colours are randomly assigned because I work better with colours. Like I can see Amélie is a different kinda green and that stands out to me. I should really change the green potential to be more 50-150...