Newbie 2061 | Views of Tallinn | Town wins

[Not_Mafia]

Why those 2?

[T3]

Marci scum makes NM town

What makes you say that? Curious, since I've had it the opposite for quite a while.
I feel like the unprovoked defense of N-M coupled with a case for pushing anyone who attacks him would make zero sense from scum!marci unless N-M was her partner.

Where did marci defennd nm?

[marcistar]

Why those 2?

I don't like t3 trying to out jailkeep when it could easily be multiple things + their vote yesterday was stinky
I don't like vfps push on pearofclubs, it just seems like something hes doing to not get any blood on his hands, y'know?

[Not_Mafia]

I don't like vfps push on pearofclubs, it just seems like something hes doing to not get any blood on his hands, y'know?

I agree on this one, VFP what's with the Pear push?

[Meuh]

Looking at N_M's recent posting, there's a clear intent to associate with Marci, which I have no idea why town!N_M would do
I think Marci will flip town and N_M is scum and he's creating this link between them in order to gain towncred for tomorrow
I'd rather see N_M elimed today
N_M's been repeating Marci's ideas and agreeing with her, it feels like scum accepting a townie's defense of them in order to create a pair, which they will benefit from, since Marci would flip town, giving towncred, and since Marci initiated the pair, N_M doesn't look scummy from its existence
Sticking to the same set of scumreads Marci was pushing yesterday and passively siding with her without directly interacting is very scummy

[Lukewarm]

What're your reads as of right now? It'll be good to have the information around, should you end up flipping green today- and even if you don't get elimmed, it'll be good to have your thoughts on the books before the days end.

How many votes am I at..? I'll claim if I need to, but i'm not sure if I need to now.. or if i should wait a bit longer..?

I think that t3 and vfp are scum.

I am still working my way through Day 1, so I would say maybe hold off a bit.

Speaking of, I don't know if my predecessor has a vote out, so UNVOTE: .

I'll touch base once I am through all of Day 1

[Not_Mafia]

marci is a strong player and something definitely seems off with her, but I don't know if it's because she's scum

[Pearofclubs]

Where did marci defennd nm?

Linked below. Norwee had proposed the notion that getting rid of N-M wouldn't be a bad idea since he's hard to read and tends to troll more than actually play (That being said, he's actually been contributing quite a bit...).

Is he getting meta with his trolling? When people start believing that he's just going to troll all game he starts contributing?
That'd be masterful

He is a troll. Confusing. Hammers wagons on E-1. Doesn’t explain his positions.
Lynchbait as town, obvscum as mafia. Destructive force of villainy.
Etc.

ahhh, so you hate him?

i kinda find his playstyle funny (tho its hard for me to make a decision on him, and others who play similar like that, i think.) I think if people who play in jestery playstyles like his get vote killed it's more likely to be a scum motivated wagon, tho idk how i would think about wagons on these types of players if they were scum.
so i find players like him useful if theyre townies

does it make sense..?

[Lukewarm]

I promise I will get caught up today, but I am in another game that is 1.5 hours away from their deadline. I will be able to focus more on this one after that passes haha

[VFP]

VFP what's with the Pear push?

Deep wolf.

[Not_Mafia]

And you think day 2 when we stopped the kill n1 is time for a deep wolf push

[VFP]

And you think day 2 when we stopped the kill n1 is time for a deep wolf push

Of course. Pear is getting off lightly for ticking the scum boxes.
The fact they still haven't gone over iN3krO after 2 requests makes me think they just can't generate another fake read. 542 also shows that they are not reading the game as I already stated why you and Marci aren't scum together.

I'll vote betwen Pear, Marci, and Catboi at this point.

Marci is currently E1 (I think?) and I'll hammer if it comes to it but I want some input first since little has been said since I joined in.
At no point have I said I am limited to Pear only.

[Meuh]

And you think day 2 when we stopped the kill n1 is time for a deep wolf push

Of course. Pear is getting off lightly for ticking the scum boxes.
The fact they still haven't gone over iN3krO after 2 requests makes me think they just can't generate another fake read. 542

also shows that they are not reading the game as I already stated why you and Marci aren't scum together.

I'll vote betwen Pear, Marci, and Catboi at this point.

Marci is currently E1 (I think?) and I'll hammer if it comes to it but I want some input first since little has been said since I joined in.
At no point have I said I am limited to Pear only.

So what VFP is referring to is:

Meuh is always town here for me.
Marci lim works for me and I think we just win with Meuh, T3, and iN3krO as town here.

Marci scum makes NM town and iN3krO is plausibly the partner for 513

Marci town just means 2 scum in Pear, Catboi, and NM

A singular line linking to a singular post with no further explanation is honestly not something I think you should expect people to remember really? Tbh I forgot you even made that explanation in the first place, I think it's a stretch to imply Pear "isn't reading the game" for this.

[T3]

VOTE: marci
Not sure when deadline is. VFP looking very towny.

[VFP]

A singular line linking to a singular post with no further explanation is honestly not something I think you should expect people to remember really? Tbh I forgot you even made that explanation in the first place, I think it's a stretch to imply Pear "isn't reading the game" for this.

Well, this makes it seems that you didn't read my posts either.
501 is where I'm talking about.

[VFP]

NorwegianboyEE's wagon is never an all town wagon here.
So at least that rules out NM / marcistar.

For clarification.

[Meuh]

A singular line linking to a singular post with no further explanation is honestly not something I think you should expect people to remember really? Tbh I forgot you even made that explanation in the first place, I think it's a stretch to imply Pear "isn't reading the game" for this.

Well, this makes it seems that you didn't read my posts either.
501 is where I'm talking about.

oops i need to spend more time rereading posts cause sometimes i really just don't absorb the information
it's like when you read a page of a book and afterwards you're like "what did i even just read?" and can barely explain it

[catboi]

Let me confirm, Pear is only ever over explaining posts when there's pressure to be judged on the side. And if you read their scum game there's a lot of simular posting from there to here.

Why do you see this game as similar to pear's scum game but not their town game? I looked at the two and I can't see any obvious differences at a glance. Obviously pear's reads haven't been great in my view but I don't know that it's scum making bad cases rather than wrong town who's just inexperienced

[catboi]

VOTE: marci
Not sure when deadline is. VFP looking very towny.

Deadline is just under 18 hours

[catboi]

We are at 3 votes on marci still and 1 on everyone else. I guess I'd swap to n_m as a secondary choice and third would be basically anyone else to achieve an elim.

I'm sorry for being inactive, I legit forgot how short newbie game deadlines are now compared to everything Else. A lot of the arguments being made now just don't do a whole lot for me. I do think VFP is probably townie.

[Meuh]

VOTE: marci
Not sure when deadline is. VFP looking very towny.

Deadline is just under 18 hours

With the extra 12 hours from the replacement, I think we're at ~30 hours

[Pearofclubs]

A singular line linking to a singular post with no further explanation is honestly not something I think you should expect people to remember really? Tbh I forgot you even made that explanation in the first place, I think it's a stretch to imply Pear "isn't reading the game" for this.

Well, this makes it seems that you didn't read my posts either.
501 is where I'm talking about.

oops i need to spend more time rereading posts cause sometimes i really just don't absorb the information
it's like when you read a page of a book and afterwards you're like "what did i even just read?" and can barely explain it

To be fair, he wasn't exactly pointing you towards a lot of information. He was referring to this two line statement on the bottom of his read on me:

NorwegianboyEE's wagon is never an all town wagon here.
So at least that rules out NM / marcistar.

To be fair, I actually completely spaced out on that argument. It's an interesting theory, but it's not bulletproof.
Here comes some data!

The deadline for Day One Elim was 04/18 at 6:00 AM.
I posted that theory and my vote on Norwee at 04/15 at 4:16 PM.
That's two days, 13 hours, 44 minutes.
In that time, we have 6 posts from Marci, the last one being on 04/16 at 5:42 PM.
And 3 from N-M, between 3:52 - 54 PM on 04/16.
When both of them posted last, Norwee had two votes. It was before the wagon actually gained traction, and then they disappeared from the thread until day 2, brought on by T3's early hammer.

Not-Mafia was in fact active in other threads, though. https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12711307 shows him posting on the 17th at 12:53 PM, an hour prior to the hammer. You're not telling me he didn't poke his head into a thread that's so close to the end of a day. (and I'm reading N-M like he's a normal player, because

he's been participating.

)

So, to recap real quick-
They both vanished from the thread before the wagon got any steam going. Maybe they just weren't around, maybe they were lurking. It's certainly possible they saw the wagon building and decided to let it happen. We didn't have anything better day one, so it might have passed from that heady combination of "it's our best shot" and "we don't want a noelim". There's no guarantee that it wasn't all town.

I wouldn't rule out that scumteam.

[Lukewarm]

Okay, I have just reached the end of Day 1, and also saw that there was no kill during the night (!!) I plan on making a couple posts, first my general notes that I made just as I read through. Leaving all of them there, even if they chaged throughout my read of the day, just to share my general progression of thoughts.

Then I am going to highlight something that I think was actually a scumslip

Then I will share my over all read list of every player as of, the end of Day 1.

I would like to preface this, that these are all my gut reactions to my first read through, and my opinions are likely to update some as I go back and look at some ISOs

Anyways, my read through notes:

Spoiler: post 0-100

• Post 12, Meuh asking for off site experience, this is a good look imo
  
• Post 22, Town points for Norwegian - scum players don't normally like to alienate other players this much, ditto for 27 and 31.
  
• The Not_Mafia entrance: I hate it. Like it is not a way of playing this game that I enjoy, but I also know from experience that he enters every game this way, so it is NAI
  
• Post 67, Norwee's absolute turn around on Not Mafia is a bit baffling to me haha. Not sure what it indicates, but it definitely stood out.
  
• General Comment: Not getting great vibes from Sama, but not for anything I can pin down
  
• Post 84, Marcistar also asking for prior mafia experience
  
• Post 85, love this post from Meuh. Lots of detail, also helping Tori not get defensive over a RVS. Really seems like she wants people on track to actually scum hunt. Scum would normally let something like Tori's uncertainty of why she was voted just sit. Very pro-town post
  
• Post 87 Bad vibes from Tori. List of 3 scum reads with no reasoning, and 0 town reads. Seems like a new!scum type of post
  
• Post 93, Pear. Making zero content posts is a pretty standard scum tell, but announcing that you are making a zero content post... not sure how to take that one lol
  
• Post 95 Tori did come back with an explanation from post 87, but I dont really care for their logic tbh

Spoiler: Posts 100-200

• Post 100 Meuh again with the town plays, Pressuring the quietest player to try and get content from them
  
• Post 102 Even after being called out for lack of posts, he is still offering very little content. "holding back for now as most of my reads are fairly weak" comes across to me like, "I am scum and unsure of what reads to make to seem most town". On Day 1, town is mostly playing blind, trying to voice a lot of thoughts trying to get responses, build content. Scum is trying to cherry pick Day 1 posts so that they can come across as town / distance from their partner, but not actually incriminate them / pocket other players. So town players are generally more open with thier reads on Day 1, while scum want to make sure they are making the right reads before they post.
  
• Post 103 + 104, Meuh read my mind
  
• Post 105 I am really not liking Tori's reasonings here. They don't like meuh's early town reads because there wasn't a good backing for them, but on the flip side they put out their 3 scum reads without good backing.
  
• Post 119, Bad vibes, cant articulate why, but I feel them
  
• Post 130, Norweigianboy reads my mind on Tori
  
• Post 146 Meuh trying their damnedest to keep the thread alive and full of content. They are a pretty strong town read for me atm
  
• General Comment: No good vibes coming from Sama
  
• Post 174, Catboi repeatedly bringing up Ink's first post, feels very disengenuous to me. His first post of the game, means we were in the RVS stage at that point, and he did not even vote on it. His first vote was on Catboi, and then catboi tried to push back based on Ink's first post of the game. Seems defensive
  
• Post 187, Tori is once again posting only a read list with no logic. Not super helpful for town
  
• Post 189, getting a real bad feeling from the way Catboi has been interacting with the thread so far, he just does not feel like he wants to help in the scum hunting.

Spoiler: Post 200 to end of Day 1

• General Comment: Just hit post
  224 231 234
  259, and that is a lot of people being prodded day 1
  
• Post 239 Catboi with some reads, definitely helping my read on him, I am coming around to the idea of Catboi possibly being town now
  
• Post 255, Hm. Early Day 1 "Not Mafia being a troll is better then any thing else I have to go on" is a reasonable RVS, but 250+ posts in, it seems a bit weak of an argument. Like you should have something to go on, which is better then "but not mafia is a troll," which is better then another blind vote. Negative town points for Meuh.
  
• Post 266 This is why Meuh lost town points for the NM vote, but catboi didn't. he is at least making the case that NM might legitimately be scum this game.
  
• General Comment: Norwee has put a lot of work into defending NM, like a lot. Which is strange considering their opening. If NM ever flips red, I will become suspicious of Norwegianboy
  
• Post 289 Catboi makes a good point. There were only 2 votes on NM, that makes norwee's strong defense even more odd
  
• Post 305 Nice post by Pear. Gaining some town points imo
  
• General Comment: Overall vibe from Norwee has been steadily dropping.
  
• General Comment: General vibe from Catboi also dropping, but they cannot be partners. Currently have them as an either/or scum read
  
• Post 376, Pear has lost their town points. Not liking the mental gymnastics he jumped through in this post to shade Norwee
  
• Post 381, Meuh losing more town points. "I think he is scum, because he is scum reading me" is a really weak stance to take, especially given the fact that she clearly has some mafia experience
  
• Post 401, Incredibly, Meuh is losing even more town points. They started Day 1 building incredible amounts of town cred imo, but by this point, they really are giving off the vibe "almost any vote out is fine by me"
  
• Post 419 Major alarm bells going off! This one deserves its own post to talk about.

[Pearofclubs]

And you think day 2 when we stopped the kill n1 is time for a deep wolf push

This is an interesting statement. "We stopped the kill N1. "
Is that actually what happened?
Might've been a No-Kill Gambit.
Don't kill anyone, see if power roles out themselves, fakeclaim if you need to on the defense.
Then we come across this-

How many votes am I at..? I'll claim if I need to, but i'm not sure if I need to now.. or if i should wait a bit longer..?

So clearly if marci's scum, claiming is on her mind, but

If we do have the jailkeeper we have a mafia.

I remember last game I played, jailkeep was used as a healer instead of trying to rb scum? So jailkeep wouldn't be sure about their info..?

anyways im not jailkeep

This kinda limits her ability to claim, unless she's planning on saying she said this to divert attention.
pedit: I haven't read your post yet, Lukewarm. I'll get on that right now

[Lukewarm]

I think I may have just caught a scum making a slip during my read through!

I would like everyone to compare PearfoClubs posts 124 and post 419. I think you might find some harsh inconsistencies.

I actually was explicitly suspicious of someone in my last game because they were super helpful. I thought it was them trying to steer suspicions away from themselves and appear nice and helpful. Turns out it was just a helpful person.
Shame we lost because of that suspicion, but live and learn, right?

Basically, he claims, that in his last game, he scum read someone for being helpful, but they were actually

town

, and therefore lost the game.

This means that people are, at least to some degree, suspecting him less because he's giving gameplay advice and assistance. My last game a very helpful and nice player that I townread early on turned out to be scum. Perspectives get tainted by appreciating things like that

Basically, he claims, that in his last game, he townread someone for being helpful, but they were actually

scum

, and therefore lost the game.

Hopefully, everyone sees the discrepancy here. So it seems to me, like he was making up a story to try and get people to agree with his push at the time, and did not realize that he had already made up the exact opposite story. This reeks of scum trying to manipulate town.

I would very much like to go ahead and drop a vote here on Pear, but I am going to get fully caught up before I cast any votes. I am going to step a way for a bit to take a break, but I will be caught up before I go to bed tonight!